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What Do You All Think of Doc?

Discussion in 'Boston Celtics Fan Forum' started by maverick4, Apr 29, 2008.

  1. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    I've followed the C's even when they sucked and have been saying how much of a coaching mismatch we have with Doc Rivers vs. Anybody.

    The 2008 Celtics are like the Chargers under Shottenheimer or Norv
    Turner. Tons of talent, but a coach that you know will suck it up in
    the playoffs.

    Tony Allen and James Posey were kept on the bench in the
    4th quarter, our two lockdown defenders at SG and SF.

    So now in both games 3 and 4, the C's were tied at around 76-76 or
    79-79 both games until getting blown out in the final period. It
    shows how Doc doesn't know what the hell he is doing. Based on his
    press conference the scary thing is he doesn't know why the C's lost.

    The Celtics should fire Doc after the season and hire a proven winner. The
    Celtics should bring Riley to Boston and pump out 2-3 rings for us.
  2. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Because that worked out so well for the Heat. One ring and two years later, they're in the basement of the league. I personally think that the game may have passed Riley by. As a Heat fan, he seemed to have lost a lot of his famous intensity this season on the benches. Maybe it was age, maybe it was the season. But whatever it was, he didn't seem to have the fire in his stomach anymore.

    I have a great opinion of Riley and have enjoyed his coaching. But, watching the Magic, something tells me if we would have kept Stan Van Gundy, we'd have more than one right. Besides, I don't think Riley is going to coach for a while after this, if even at all.
  3. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    OK but what you think about Doc, and do you have any other suggestions as coaching candidates?
  4. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I honestly don't know much of Doc Rivers when it comes to playoff basketball. Going by your statements, it sounds like he's another version of Flip Saunders. However, with the way the Celts have played this year, I'd guess that Rivers is an adequate regular season coach. But, again, not enough knowledge to make a fair assessment.

    As for head coaches, things are not going so well in Denver between coach and superstar. We've seen this soap opera many times and nine times out of ten the superstar wins. With that in mind you may be able to snag Karl. If not him then maybe a college head coach (Billy Donovan seemed pretty unenthused last year)?
  5. gr8scott

    gr8scott Rookie

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    I wasn't a Doc guy until this year. I liked the way he handled the team in the regular season, but after the last two games, I can't believe I ever thought this guy might get Coach of the Year for the way he brought everyone together and cemented their respective roles.
  6. IcyPatriot

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    Right about now I'd like to hang Doc upside down by his testicles until he promises to have a game plan.
  7. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    Once again, the Celtics were up 8 with 2 mins left in the 3rd quarter, and then proceeded to get destroyed in the final period.

    Also, the last two Celtics plays shows how our offense is just 'winging it', there is no scheme or system or even a strategy.

    We have a coaching mismatch every single playoff game with Doc leading the way.

    We are like the San Diego Chargers under Schottenheimer or Norv Turner.
  8. Stokes

    Stokes Rookie

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    I think he's a piss poor coach. I mean, let's face it, with the way the Celtics came together this year and the stars made it about team rather than individual, a chimp could have coached this team to 60 wins. The problem is if you fire Doc, who do you replace him with? There are a LOT of bad coaches in the NBA. I like Skiles, but he's too controlling/tight to coach a veteran team. Maybe Ainge comes down to do it? I thought he was a good coach when he was in Phoenix.

    Doc getting canned would be the only bright spot if they were to lose Sunday.
  9. DisgruntledTunaFan

    DisgruntledTunaFan Rookie

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    Or maybe the Celtics are "eating the cheese" at this present moment?

    Really-they ended up clinching Home Court Throughout like 2 weeks BEFORE the reg season ended, maybe they seem rusted and ended up absorbing all those press clippings during this time?

    As for Doc Rivers-FWIW, if he were coaching the Spurs, he would do just as good of a job as Greg Poppavich.

    JMHO
  10. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    STRONGLY, respectfully, completely disagree. With Doc there is zero coaching or anti-coaching going on, he brings nothing to the table, which kills his teams in the playoffs or in big games.
  11. DisgruntledTunaFan

    DisgruntledTunaFan Rookie

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    Being a life-long Pistons fan, I can honestly say that I feel the same way about Flip Saunders. HOWEVER...

    Replacing coaches is never the answer-yeah, under Saunders, the Piston players tend to relax and take their opponents lightly(which is why they choked away chances at Titles the last 2 years), but everyone seems to be FORGETTING that these SAME players pretty much did so with LARRY BROWN coaching them.

    Sure-Brown won a title with them(and almost 2 in '05), but there were countless times this team threw playoff games away against pop-warner teams b/c of the reason that the players relaxed and took their opponents lightly.

    Pt being that 1) Maybe the players' mentality carries the biggest significant weight? 2) You have to keep your head up-again, under Larry Brown, remember how we made potentially easy series look hard against pop-warner teams. But ultimately, everything turned out great in the end.
  12. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    While this may be true, coaching does have an effect.
    Look at the difference with the Shaq/Kobe Lakers under Del Harris, and then under Phil Jackson with almost the exact same team.
  13. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    The Celtics offense is 'improv', a completely different feeling compared to when you watch the Lakers or Jazz or Spurs operate.
    No Jerry Sloan or Phil Jackson or Popovich coached team would ever start off down 30-11, down 43-17, to start a game like we did last night.
  14. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

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    I'm normally a Doc defender - but his usage of Cassell has really been troubling throughout the playoffs. We won 66 games without needing much of Cassell's services, and suddenly, he's trumping Rondo for minutes. Yes, Rondo struggled in the first half of both of the last two games, but I really think Doc has destroyed Rondo's confidence - last series, he was burying 15 footers with regularity, this series, he won't even take them. Likely for fear of the fact that if he starts missing, Doc has been trigger happy on putting Cassell in.

    Sam is fine, he's a good change of pace, but if Sam is playing more than 10-15 minutes a game, we aren't going to win the championship.

    Doc has two guys - Sam and Rondo - now in there worrying about minutes when it's playoff time, and that's the last thing that should be on their mind. He's ruined Rondo's flow when he might very well have been the MVP of the first round series, and he's also let Sam come in and fire the ball wildly, and Sam has been off the last two games.

    In short, the point guard spot is a mess b/c of Doc's impatience with Rondo, and the only person who can right it now is Rondo, he needs to start shooting and start making shots. It starts tonite - Rondo has to get off to a fast start so that Doc doesn't freak out and put in Cassell early again.
    Last edited: May 12, 2008
  15. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Doc is a great guy, understands the game, and is a terrific motivator, but he stinks at X's & O's. The playoffs is all about match-ups, and Doc just doesn't do them right.
  16. IcyPatriot

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    Doc needs a visit from Claude "Clohd" Julien....:p
  17. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    I was keeping track this time. In the 4th quarter, Doc Rivers played PJ Brown from the 12 minute mark all the way to the 4 minute mark, while Perkins sat on the bench with only 3 fouls. He also played Cassell, AGAIN, in the beginning of the 4th, and the group in the final 4 minutes were KG/Pierce/Allen/Posey/Cassell, basically doing his best to destroy Rondo's confidence.

    Doc Rivers is not a smart man. I have zero confidence in any playoff game he coaches where we're not up at least 10 going into the 4th quarter.
  18. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    I forgot to add the Celtics only scored 12 points in the 4th quarter, which they've done in lots of playoff games this season, totally fold in the 4th quarter of a tight contest in which you either tie or are within 3 going into the 4th or early 4th..
  19. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    LOL I usually grimace when people bump weeks old threads - but I think this one deserves to be.

    So, what do you all think of Doc today? Still want a real genius coach like Jackson?

    Doc moulded a championship team in one season. Danny assembled the cast, but Doc made it all work to the point they were able to demolish a Phil Jackson/Kobe Bryant led collection of sniveling whiners by playing dominant team defense. Doc never made excuses nor did he allow his players to. Reminds me of the mindset that guy in Foxboro established. Basketball isn't an x's and o's coaching league. It's about teaching discipline, maintaining focus, reading your players, making the right substitutions based in part on long term goals, embracing and preparing your role players on the bench, building trust and confidence between superstars, aging savvy veterans, eager but inexperienced kids, managing egos.

    Doc deserved coach of the year as much as Bill did. In part because of all the crap he's had to endure just to still be here to bring the Celtics back from 20 years of near paralysis. That Danny and the new ownership had the courage of their convictions and stuck with the right man for the job bodes well for this franchise going forward. Doc has helped create a new blueprint foundation that will pay dividends probably even after he and the big three are gone. Team defense wins championships.
  20. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    No question Doc is a champion now so all doubts go away now, kind of like how it happened for Francona after his first one.

    I am shocked at how the Lakers didn't show up, this series really puts a dent in how people see Phil Jackson. Gave up the biggest comeback in history as well as the biggest clinching loss in history. Wow.

    However after reading your post again you're giving Doc too much credit for the suffocating team defense, when that is the specialty of that new coach we added this year Tom Thibbideau and the fact that we have the defensive player of the year. I also think that this doesn't change some of my criticisms of Doc but it kind of confirms to me that the NBA is about who has the biggest and more stars on your team. In a 5 on 5 game talent is way more important than coaching, compared to say like in football.
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2008

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