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What Do You All Think of Doc?


When you win the championship, you obviously deserve a ton of credit for the job that was done. Doc did much better in this series than any other. He totally out coached an overrated & arrogant Phil Jackson. That's for damn sure. Early on in the playoffs though, Rivers had his problems. I think Rivers got better as the playoffs wore on. One things for sure, Rivers is an excellent motivator & communicator. This team never took a single game off. That's a credit to him. Congrats Doc!
 
I love Doc. He is a true leader. He may not be an X's and O's genius like Belichick, but if the credit for that goes to Thibideau then you have to give credit to Doc for letting TT have sway over the defense. Not every manager can delegate like that.

I'll take Doc any day.
 
I still am not crazy about Doc - He is the recepient of the most talented trio and bench players the NBA had this year - Hell I probably could have coached that team to the title it was so good this year.

I think Boston wins the title no matter who was in a suit on the sidelines this year.

Belichick wins with no name players - Thats the type of coach who can win no matter who is playing - Doc on the other hand, needs top talent like he had this year.

If you want to give a pat on the back to the person NOT in a celtics uniform that deserves all the accolades its not Doc - Its Danny Ainge
 
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I still am not crazy about Doc - He is the recepient of the most talented trio and bench players the NBA had this year - Hell I probably could have coached that team to the title it was so good this year.

I think Boston wins the title no matter who was in a suit on the sidelines this year.


Belichick wins with no name players - Thats the type of coach who can win no matter who is playing - Doc on the other hand, needs top talent like he had this year.

If you want to give a pat on the back to the person NOT in a celtics uniform that deserves all the accolades its not Doc - Its Danny Ainge
:rolleyes: Oh I'm sure you would have. Give Doc some frigging credit he did a hell of a job in the finals and that alone really upped my respect for Doc. Remember how many people were saying Doc would lose us a championship? They're signing a different tune now.

ALTHOUGH I do agree, Ainge deserves more credit than anyone, he put it all together after all.
 
What is lost on most of the I coulda done it's is the fact that Doc enabled Danny to acquire the pieces that this franchise could not have won without. He developed the value of talent Danny was able to package to trade for them. He also developed a starting center where many said none existed, not to mention a young point guard into a functional starter on a championship team in just his second season - a player many are now saying will develop into an all star. He did that while taking a shellacking for doing what most basketball HC's are afraid to do - losing in order to remain focused on long range development.

He, and not Danny, brought in an assistant coach to focus on an area he chose to emphasize from the day he arrived here - team defense. Something fans seldom appreciate until the see the finished product successfully employed. He managed three talented egos and sold them on a plan to sacrifice individual accolades and merely perform as pieces of a puzzle when he took them for a duck boat ride along the same route the team will travel today. He could do that because he manages his own ego so well even under intense fire.

Doc couldn't win without the Big Three, but without Doc neither could they nor would they have ever landed here. Danny's forte is talent evaluation, and that includes in a HC. Doc allowed him to patiently maneuver a way around the cap hell he inherited even absent the ridiculous luck of the draw machinations of the NBA. And do it in a way many can now suddenly see was not a simple mortgaging of the future to compete short term.

At the end of the day this whole thing came down to two guys who are capable of managing their own egos and disciplined and committed to their vision assembling a team that they could mould to stay the same course. It's basically as close as you will come to an NBA version of your NEP. Right down to the committed ownership.
 
[What is lost on most of the I coulda done it's is the fact that Doc enabled Danny to acquire the pieces that this franchise could not have won without.]

Whatchu talkin about Willis?

Doc had no part in Ainge's amazing drafts where Ainge patiently cleaned out a disastrous salary cap situation while accumulating valuable trading pieces. To get stud players you had to first have enough valuable young players to trade away, and that was all Ainge.

I'm also not convinced Doc did anything non-average in the development of any of the youth. The Celtics have tons of coaches and put a system in place for development that was independent of Doc.

Doc's greatest strength is in creating chemistry and comeraderie and that proved to be enough. You claiming Doc had any part in creating the talent is as crazy as saying Francona developed Ellsbury or Pedroia or Lester, when aside from being a loyal manager it was more the system/GM than the head coach.
 
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[What is lost on most of the I coulda done it's is the fact that Doc enabled Danny to acquire the pieces that this franchise could not have won without.]

Whatchu talkin about Willis?

Doc had no part in Ainge's amazing drafts where Ainge patiently cleaned out a disastrous salary cap situation while accumulating valuable trading pieces. To get stud players you had to first have enough valuable young players to trade away, and that was all Ainge.

I'm also not convinced Doc did anything non-average in the development of any of the youth. The Celtics have tons of coaches and put a system in place for development that was independent of Doc.

Doc's greatest strength is in creating chemistry and comeraderie and that proved to be enough. You claiming Doc had any part in creating the talent is as crazy as saying Francona developed Ellsbury or Pedroia or Lester, when aside from being a loyal manager it was more the system/GM than the head coach.


The world is still flat, don't let anyone tell you different. Doc Rivers was an accomplished guard in his NBA days. Of course he had nothing to do with the development of a rookie named Rajon Rondo whom he coached and stuck with despite all the criticism. Bottom line, coaching is overrated, right Mav.
 
Your problem is you pre judged Doc based on what the fanboy in you wanted to see. When he lost without talent it was because he was a lousy HC. When he won with talent it was because talent is all that matters. When they lost a couple of games mid season you were right back to coaching matters irrespective of talent and Doc is a lousy HC. Then you determined they could not win with him in spite of talent. You were dead wrong, in part because you never understood what was going on. They were building something here. All you wanted was to win every game. You do the same thing with McDaniels. Danny and Doc, like Bill, understand it's all a process.

Doc developed those players and unlike his predecessor he was willing to take his lumps and losses in playing or disciplining them as they developed. That dramatically increased their post draft value potentially at his expense. Then he took a kid like Perkins who most saw having little potential as anything more than a backup center and developed him into a starting center with a crucial role on a defensive minded championship team. He did the same with Rondo. He did that by both playing them and disciplining their play. He made them earn their minutes including in practice, just like Bill does.

What makes you think the coaching staff is independent of Doc other than you want it to be? Danny is a hands off GM who acquires talent and stays out of it's way - and that includes the HC provided he is willing to risk his career standing to embrace a mutual long range goal. Doc hired Thibideau, Danny had nothing to do with that. Doc had feelers out to lots of coaching help including Larry Brown, a bright guy alternately known for stabbing folks in the back. He could contemplate that because he had the courage of his convictions and the single minded goal of making this team better. He knew it was time to transition from coaching a rebuild to coaching a contender. That is why Danny's support for him never waivered even as the nitwit fanboys screamed for his head for two years.

This isn't baseball where players routinely come up through the minors. And still, even there they require a manager with insight and conviction to allow them to make the transition. The talent Ainge acquired for Doc had to learn on the job, either to play in the NBA or play with each other in a system. Few NBA coaches will accommodate that scenario for long because they care more about public perception and future employability and succomb to the need to win essentially meaningless games at the expense of building a strong foundation. Doc was willing to take the abuse and do what Ainge needed him to do in order to develop sound talent either to play now or be used as valuable trading chips to acquire veteran pieces who could win in the forseeable future. What Doc did allowed Danny to do what he did.

Even with keeping Pierce here to win his ring. They butted heads at first, but Doc took some sage advice and worked at winning that player over because in doing so you create your most loyal ally for the long haul. And that went a long way in insuring a Big Three could work here. If the incumbant captain and leader was willing to sacrifice his game for the greater good, how could the other two not follow suit. If he was willing to embrace raw kids and aging role players as equally valuable assets, then those players could envision themselves as such even in the presence of a Big Three. He even found a rallying cry to keep them focused on a collective goal than encompassed all they were being asked to embrace...Ubuntu.

Your problem is you can't begin to admit you were dead wrong across the board where Doc was concerned. He was hired to do more than script x's and o's. Doc's job was to teach and instill a work ethic and committment to team defense unselfish play into this team, to get them back to the kind of teams Ainge won with. To shift the focus off big scoring and big egos onto stopping big scoring by other teams big egos. That allowed Ainge to focus his drafts on smaller, faster players who were more plentiful and less expensive than the big bodies and allow them to survive absent luck of the draw lottery picks. That meant for the most part they won low scoring hard fought games. But low and behold it also allowed them to engineer 20+ point comebacks (via stops) when they needed them most against a more talented but less diciplined foe and a 39 point blowout of the highest scoring team in the NBA to clinch a title. Danny and Doc were on the same page all along - defense and discipline on both ends of the court wins championships. Page out of Belichick's book. Players don't always execute their coaches vision consistently, but when they do so when it matters most they win.
 
I still am not crazy about Doc - He is the recepient of the most talented trio and bench players the NBA had this year - Hell I probably could have coached that team to the title it was so good this year.

I think Boston wins the title no matter who was in a suit on the sidelines this year.

Belichick wins with no name players - Thats the type of coach who can win no matter who is playing - Doc on the other hand, needs top talent like he had this year.

If you want to give a pat on the back to the person NOT in a celtics uniform that deserves all the accolades its not Doc - Its Danny Ainge

Lmao you couldn't coach your way out of a paper bag never mind a NBA team, why cant you doc bashers give the guy even a little credit? The guy made almost every right call in the finals with his bench maneuver's and you people still want to criticize him, freakin pathetic!
 
Your problem is you pre judged Doc based on what the fanboy in you wanted to see. When he lost without talent it was because he was a lousy HC. When he won with talent it was because talent is all that matters. When they lost a couple of games mid season you were right back to coaching matters irrespective of talent and Doc is a lousy HC. Then you determined they could not win with him in spite of talent. You were dead wrong, in part because you never understood what was going on. They were building something here. All you wanted was to win every game. You do the same thing with McDaniels. Danny and Doc, like Bill, understand it's all a process.

Doc developed those players and unlike his predecessor he was willing to take his lumps and losses in playing or disciplining them as they developed. That dramatically increased their post draft value potentially at his expense. Then he took a kid like Perkins who most saw having little potential as anything more than a backup center and developed him into a starting center with a crucial role on a defensive minded championship team. He did the same with Rondo. He did that by both playing them and disciplining their play. He made them earn their minutes including in practice, just like Bill does.

What makes you think the coaching staff is independent of Doc other than you want it to be? Danny is a hands off GM who acquires talent and stays out of it's way - and that includes the HC provided he is willing to risk his career standing to embrace a mutual long range goal. Doc hired Thibideau, Danny had nothing to do with that. Doc had feelers out to lots of coaching help including Larry Brown, a bright guy alternately known for stabbing folks in the back. He could contemplate that because he had the courage of his convictions and the single minded goal of making this team better. He knew it was time to transition from coaching a rebuild to coaching a contender. That is why Danny's support for him never waivered even as the nitwit fanboys screamed for his head for two years.

This isn't baseball where players routinely come up through the minors. And still, even there they require a manager with insight and conviction to allow them to make the transition. The talent Ainge acquired for Doc had to learn on the job, either to play in the NBA or play with each other in a system. Few NBA coaches will accommodate that scenario for long because they care more about public perception and future employability and succomb to the need to win essentially meaningless games at the expense of building a strong foundation. Doc was willing to take the abuse and do what Ainge needed him to do in order to develop sound talent either to play now or be used as valuable trading chips to acquire veteran pieces who could win in the forseeable future. What Doc did allowed Danny to do what he did.

Even with keeping Pierce here to win his ring. They butted heads at first, but Doc took some sage advice and worked at winning that player over because in doing so you create your most loyal ally for the long haul. And that went a long way in insuring a Big Three could work here. If the incumbant captain and leader was willing to sacrifice his game for the greater good, how could the other two not follow suit. If he was willing to embrace raw kids and aging role players as equally valuable assets, then those players could envision themselves as such even in the presence of a Big Three. He even found a rallying cry to keep them focused on a collective goal than encompassed all they were being asked to embrace...Ubuntu.

Your problem is you can't begin to admit you were dead wrong across the board where Doc was concerned. He was hired to do more than script x's and o's. Doc's job was to teach and instill a work ethic and committment to team defense unselfish play into this team, to get them back to the kind of teams Ainge won with. To shift the focus off big scoring and big egos onto stopping big scoring by other teams big egos. That allowed Ainge to focus his drafts on smaller, faster players who were more plentiful and less expensive than the big bodies and allow them to survive absent luck of the draw lottery picks. That meant for the most part they won low scoring hard fought games. But low and behold it also allowed them to engineer 20+ point comebacks (via stops) when they needed them most against a more talented but less diciplined foe and a 39 point blowout of the highest scoring team in the NBA to clinch a title. Danny and Doc were on the same page all along - defense and discipline on both ends of the court wins championships. Page out of Belichick's book. Players don't always execute their coaches vision consistently, but when they do so when it matters most they win.
i love this post.:rocker: doc is a excellent coach
 
Red wanted Doc as a player and wanted him as a coach and campaigned for him. That's good enough for me.
 
Mo I'm not going to take anything away from Doc, the guy is a championship winning coach now. He's obviously good at chemistry, getting his guys to play hard, and building comeraderie. But if one goes back and looks at the last 20 NBA champions, it's clear that generally speaking whoever has the stud superstars wins the title.

I think it's now starting to go the other way where you are all completely over-rating Doc as a coach. We are talking about a guy who before this year, in his entire career had never won a playoff series with any team in about a decade of coaching.

It's interesting you bring up McDaniels because it's a somewhat similar situation. This is a guy who gets way too much credit, when from the moment he joined he had Tom Brady as well as the fact that the Pats starting drafting offense with early draft picks the moment he became coach.
 
But if one goes back and looks at the last 20 NBA champions, it's clear that generally speaking whoever has the stud superstars wins the title.

We are talking about a guy who before this year, in his entire career had never won a playoff series with any team in about a decade of coaching.
:confused::confused:wtf. on one hand you say the team with the stud players wins[suggesting doc really doesnt deserve the credit]. and on the other hand you suggest doc wasn't very good because he didn't win a playoff series[ before this year]. so either way in your mind he can never be a good coach no matter what he does. he won this year because he had studs and before that he sucked[even though he lacked enough good players] . doc was a good coach before this year.
 
Mo I'm not going to take anything away from Doc, the guy is a championship winning coach now. He's obviously good at chemistry, getting his guys to play hard, and building comeraderie. But if one goes back and looks at the last 20 NBA champions, it's clear that generally speaking whoever has the stud superstars wins the title.

I think it's now starting to go the other way where you are all completely over-rating Doc as a coach. We are talking about a guy who before this year, in his entire career had never won a playoff series with any team in about a decade of coaching.

It's interesting you bring up McDaniels because it's a somewhat similar situation. This is a guy who gets way too much credit, when from the moment he joined he had Tom Brady as well as the fact that the Pats starting drafting offense with early draft picks the moment he became coach.

Well then I guess you gotta say the same things about that Belichick guy. At least that was the skinny on him coming out of Cleveland...and he just stumbled into Parcells Giants run and Brady and all...not HC material. 5-11 his first season here, then 0-2 out of the gate in 2001...

Doc had 4 seasons in Orlando with a dismantled team that was not expected to win. He won coach of the year his rookie season, and took them to the playoffs the next 3 with next to nothing to work with. It took them until this season after firing him 11 games into the 2003-04 season to get back to the playoffs. I don't think Doc was their problem...Any more than Bill was in Cleveland or McDaniels is here...

Just give credit. Admit you were wrong. Admit you don't know how to evaluate coaches (or teambuilding for that matter) any better than the next fan boy. And learn from that. What the hell do you think Phil Jackson ever did beyond install someone else's system and manage egos? You think his talentless teams won based on the genius of Phil's scripted plays and mastery of game strategy? Or did they win because Phil got handed Mike and Scottie or got Shaq and Kobe to play nice, at least for a while... Doc even out stratigized him in this series - even when he had MVP Kobe and Doc variously had 4 starters including two of his big 3 working through either personal crisis or injuries...so either Phil was never as good as people imagined or Doc was a lot better than they wanted to admit. Coaching is a process, just like teambuilding, and Doc has mastered it.

Honest to god, win or lose, I haven't seen an abject coaching failure in this town since Grady and Pitino left. 99 times out of 100, when you win or lose it's talent and execution based. And a coaches job is to put their players in a position where if they execute they win. Coaches can't execute for them. Generally speaking they can't even control acquiring them. They can just set the tone and teach or encourage those they are provided with to execute a game plan or system strategy consistently. Doc did his job once matched with a GM and ownership that did theirs. They got him the talent, he got it to work.
 


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