Westhoff accuses Patriots of building sideline wall, too

[Dr Pain]

Now, this is in perspective:

Within the hour, Clark Judge of CBS is reporting that the NFL is now actually going to investigate.

NFL interested in Jets; memo forthcoming - CBSSports.com

Mr. Westhoff's comments may have occurred shortly after getting the word.

This may be a nervous breakdown.

I owe you. I never saw Rex right there till you pointed him out. I think the ground work we did on the video, stills and analysis really kept this from being locked away. It is 100% obvious that Rex is behind this. He focused on this at the expense of watching the return. The next possibilities are

1) Alosi gets fired and keeps quiet. Unless he gets a big payoff this is a bad option for him as he won’t work in the field again or:

2) Alosi gets fired and fingers the Jets organization higher ups like Rex. Legally he is in much better position as he will be fired for following orders. He has legal recourse and the NFL could shield him from retaliation. This is easy to believe as it is completely believable and backed up by the video which shows Rex ignoring the play and looking only at this happen including before it happened. There is no plausible excuse on why Rex was watching this happen instead of the punt. He was watching because he knew it was coming because he ordered it. The Jets are on very thin ice as they have gone over the edge so many times. And:

3) Some link will come up to Alosi or his family to certain family members in the NY area.

I just got banned from Jetsinsider. I was happy for 24 hours posting the damming stills and video. I never broke a single rule there but was banned They were sure this was nothing but I told them this would be big one it was handed to the press on a silver platter. The folks there are freaking out. Now they know at least some of what it is like when a story takes on a life of its own.

 

[Wretch]

So anybody have video of the Pats punts?

I would be more interested to see footage of the Jets to see if this is a one time occurence or if the Jets have a pattern of violating the rule regarding the location of inactive players and coaches. If this is a pattern I hope the league hammers them.

 

[slash83]

Westhoff can suck it.

 

[Haley]

Tripgate Update: The Jets Blame… Wait for It… The Patriots! Barstool Sports: Boston

So let’s get Westhoff’s argument straight here: He and the Jets said that Sal Alosi was the Lone Gunman on the tripping incident. They knew nothing about it. He set up the sniper’s nest in the book depository and acted alone. But the Patriots line their guys up the same way. Westhoff knows they do. Furthermore, he’s in charge of the Punt Return team, but he doesn’t line his guys up that way, some low level aerobics instructor does. And Westhoff is the world’s greatest Special Teams coach, but he’s never looked at another team’s sidelines in his life. But still, he knows the Patriots do this. Well I’m glad we cleared that up.

 

[shmessy]

BTW, you can hear the Westhoff radio interview in this article:

New England Patriots build walls on the sideline on punt coverage, too, says New York Jets special teams coordinator Mike Westhoff - ESPN New York

 

[DaBruinz]

Westhoff is flat out LYING. The Pats have never had a coach line players up along the sidelines to interfere with gunners the way the Jets have.

That whole organization is a stink on the NFL...

 

[Jackson 2]

If you listen to the Westhoff interview, two things become as clear as can be: #1) this guy is lying through his teeth and scared sh!tless, and #2) the Patriots are in the Jets' collective heads big-time. He contradicted himself so many times I lost count and I had an abacus with me. Other than Hard Knocks, I'd never heard him speak. Rex would be wise to adopt BB's policy of not allowing his coaches to do public interviews. Westhoff could have put this to bed easily in about 30 seconds, but his Captain Queeg monologue just opened the wound for more detailed inspection. I'm sure he's a great coach and communicator to his players, but as a public speaker he should be muzzled.

 

[groganbootleg]

“A number of teams do it,” Westhoff said. “There is a pretty good team up north that lines their whole defense up when they do it, so it’s something that just kind of happened.”

This guy is a complete idiot. The Pats defense is getting ready to go out on the field since they are punting. Where should they go stand..... out in the tunnel?

 

[DaBruinz]

I still don't understand what on earth the NFL has to investigate here.

I haven't seen a rule that says a "human wall" is not permitted. The gunner gets his 6 foot safety zone. Beyond that, it's the bench. If a team wants to position people just outside the gunner's safety zone to gain an advantage, and the rules say it's ok, I'm in favor of it. It's innovative and clever and something I don't mind my team doing in the slightest.

My guess is that the NFL agrees with me here, because of the part of this article that says the league is considering issuing a memo on the subject. That's a different kettle of fish. If the league formally says that the human wall is unsporting, then that's that and we know going forward.

I'm not saying that the league shouldn't consider whether the sanction the Jets guy got was severe enough. And I'd have no problem with the league saying that what he did has no place in the game, and that a greater sanction is warranted. But I wouldn't like it to be retroactive.

Your guess would be just that. Ray Anderson already came out and said that what the Jets did (having non-uniformed players and coaches lining up along the sidelines to interfere with gunners) is against the rules. Practice squad and injured players are required to keep a certain distance from the sidelines..

ALSO, there are rules galore about Coaches not interferring with players.

 

[sarge]

FWIW I went ahead and looked back at a couple games (Chargers and Jet game since it was the Pats sideline you could see during punts) and never did I see this defensive wall Westoff is talking about.

I see players standing on the sideline Close to the white watching the game, same as you see on every single play from both teams regardless whether it is a punt or not, but nothing like that wall the Jets had up.

What a weasel this guy is.

I think looking at the footage it is clear that the wall at the very least was something that was organized by someone on the Jets.

 

[PatsFaninAZ]

Your guess would be just that. Ray Anderson already came out and said that what the Jets did (having non-uniformed players and coaches lining up along the sidelines to interfere with gunners) is against the rules. Practice squad and injured players are required to keep a certain distance from the sidelines..

ALSO, there are rules galore about Coaches not interferring with players.

Not sure this makes sense to me.

1) Is a human wall permitted IF you use the correct personnel or players -- that is, the ones who are permitted to stand in the second 6 foot zone?

If yes, you're telling me that what this is about is that the Jets used the wrong people? That's a very big whoop-de-doo to me. Either human walls are permitted or they aren't. If they are, then I don't have a problem with what the Jets did in the slightest. I sit behind the Arizona Cardinals bench for 10 games a year. I can tell you for a fact that pretty much every team in the NFL views the bench area as the area behind the white 6-foot border and if the rule about who could stand in the second 6 foot zone were enforced, every team in the league would violate it. Injured players, players on headphones, players looking at photos with coaches who aren't substitution players, etc. are in and out of that zone all game long.

2) I don't undertand the part about rules that say a coach cannot interfere with a player. I get that a coach can't trip a player. But what specifically is wrong with being in a legal place, not moving, in a way that ensures the gunner stays in his 6 foot safety zone?

 

[Digit]

Schadenfraude would be telling the Jets to come up with videotaped proof--- and then bust them for videotaping the sidelines.

 

[Kasmir]

Ironically, the wall Westhoff accuses the Patriots of using involving defensive personnel appears to be legal, while the one the Jets used was not legal, as the Jets wall involved non-eligible players:

(Graphic from the NFL via an excellent article at http://www.bostonsportsmedia.com/2010/12/who-ordered-the-jets-sideline-wall)

I love Westhoff's dissembling: he claims he was somehow unaware that his own team was forming a wall to help his special teams, but he's nevertheless knows that the Patriots do something similar!

Given how hard the Patriots were smacked by the Jets ratting on a similar positional triviality, it would be delicious if the Jets' TripGate troubles continued.

 

[DaBruinz]

Not sure this makes sense to me.

1) Is a human wall permitted IF you use the correct personnel or players -- that is, the ones who are permitted to stand in the second 6 foot zone?

Human walls aren't permitted. What is so hard for you to understand? What was worse is that the Jets used personnel who were not permitted in that area.

If yes, you're telling me that what this is about is that the Jets used the wrong people? That's a very big whoop-de-doo to me. Either human walls are permitted or they aren't. If they are, then I don't have a problem with what the Jets did in the slightest. I sit behind the Arizona Cardinals bench for 10 games a year. I can tell you for a fact that pretty much every team in the NFL views the bench area as the area behind the white 6-foot border and if the rule about who could stand in the second 6 foot zone were enforced, every team in the league would violate it. Injured players, players on headphones, players looking at photos with coaches who aren't substitution players, etc. are in and out of that zone all game long.

I am not telling you anything. I am repeating what Ray Anderson said. BTW, I doubt it would be a big whoop de doo if it was a McCourty who got injured on that play by a Jet's coach. You'd be screaming bloody murder. The fact is that there are rules governing where practice squad players and second tier coaching staff (below the HC/OC/DC) are allowed to go on the sidelines. I'm sorry that you have trouble understanding that. It's in the rules.

2) I don't undertand the part about rules that say a coach cannot interfere with a player. I get that a coach can't trip a player. But what specifically is wrong with being in a legal place, not moving, in a way that ensures the gunner stays in his 6 foot safety zone?

The S&C coach was NOT in a legal place. What is so hard for you to understand? Not to mention that a Coach may NOT interfere with a player who is taking part in the current play. PERIOD.

 

[DaBruinz]

Ironically, the wall Westhoff accuses the Patriots of using involving defensive personnel appears to be legal, while the one the Jets used was not legal, as the Jets wall involved non-eligible players:

Given how hard the Patriots were smacked by the Jets ratting on a similar positional triviality, it would be delicious if the Jets' TripGate troubles continued.

Thank you, Kasmir. This clearly shows that Alosi and the PS players were in an aread that they are NOT allowed to be it. Hopefully, this picture will shed some light for PatsfaninAZ....

 

[PatsFaninAZ]

Human walls aren't permitted. What is so hard for you to understand?

Show me a rule that says human walls aren't permitted. I haven't seen one. If they are not permitted, who gives a crap about all the rest of it? The Jets should be hammered. I haven't seen anything that says this. All I see is a bunch of whining about how they may be permitted, but the wrong people did it.

You say the "S&C coach was NOT in a legal place." If the point is that it's a legal place for some people but not others, I don't care. It's a bit freaking whoop de doo for me.

I do have a very significant problem with the trip. And if it injured a player I'd be livid. But I don't think we're talking about the trip.

 

[PatsFaninAZ]

Thank you, Kasmir. This clearly shows that Alosi and the PS players were in an aread that they are NOT allowed to be it. Hopefully, this picture will shed some light for PatsfaninAZ....

I UNDERSTAND THAT SOME PLAYERS AND PERSONNEL ARE NOT ALLOWED IN THE SECOND SIX FOOT ZONE.

I think you're deliberately missing my point.

I ask the question one last time and then I'm done: Show me a rule that says a human wall is not permitted (so long as the right people do it).

Put another way, if a human wall were set up exactly where the Jets did, but the personnell used were solely "coaches and situation substitution players" would it be ok? If so, this is about literally nothing to me.

 

[RHbT76]

Show me a rule that says human walls aren't permitted. I haven't seen one. If they are not permitted, who gives a crap about all the rest of it? The Jets should be hammered. I haven't seen anything that says this. All I see is a bunch of whining about how they may be permitted, but the wrong people did it.

If the forming the human wall on the sideline was OK why would the Jets increase Alosi's punishment?

 

[shmessy]

I UNDERSTAND THAT SOME PLAYERS AND PERSONNEL ARE NOT ALLOWED IN THE SECOND SIX FOOT ZONE.

I think you're deliberately missing my point.

I ask the question one last time and then I'm done: Show me a rule that says a human wall is not permitted (so long as the right people do it).

Put another way, if a human wall were set up exactly where the Jets did, but the personnell used were solely "coaches and situation substitution players" would it be ok? If so, this is about literally nothing to me.

That's downright crazy.

So the wrong people were in the wrong area and that means "literally nothing" to you.

Only people who HAVE to be close to the field should be close to the field. Papering the sideline with others (non-players who, let's face it, the coach couldn't give a damn about losing in the game) is not ok - - it would ENCOURAGE throwing bodies in the way as canon fodder i.e. no repercussions for losing valuable players to injury. As long as only people who are RELEVANT to the game at hand are in that 6 foot area means that they will have a reason to get the hell out of the way when another player comes careening through.

How is that going over your head?

 

[PatsFaninAZ]

If the forming the human wall on the sideline was OK why would the Jets increase Alosi's punishment?

Ok, that settles it.

So, if video comes out showing that the Patriots have set up human walls, you all will say it's indefensible?