DRAFT Welcome Mac Jones

[jah]

What Jersey number he will ask for/get ? #10 (College #) ? #12 (TB's old #) ?



NOW this is ironic!!!!!

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I think it'll be #10 because we have that available. Even if we didn't retire #12 (we will), it would be a very strange move to put that kind of pressure on yourself.

I also think about Jimmy when I envision a Patriots QB wearing 10. However, maybe we should be thinking about which other QB wore 10 in college.

 

[Rob0729]

Yeah I don't get this obsession with physical tools. Brady, manning, brees weren't the most athletic but they did just fine..

Because there is a belief that the league is made for these athletic mobile QBs and the pocket passers are fading away because of the speed of the game. I don't buy it. I think it is more of a product of type of the top QBs coming out of college in recent years.

But that may be working the Pats' favor here. Maybe people are under valuing Jones because he doesn't fit the mold of what they think is the prototypical NFL QB in 2021 and not his talent.

 

[BUSTAMOVE]

What Jersey number he will ask for/get ? #10 (College #) ? #12 (TB's old #) ?



NOW this is ironic!!!!!

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He has a 4.0 GPA. Smart kid
When you come in after a GOAT you want to be the guy after the guy (Cam) that replaced him
Asking for #12 would be a grave mistake
#10 was his College number that is his number here

 

[Rob0729]

I'm thrilled with getting Mac, I think he has everything you want in a pocket QB field general. But the learning curve is steep for a rookie QB, even Peyton threw a ton of picks as a rookie. I am hopeful Mac can pick it up fast but it's basically hard for any rookie QB to be good enough to lead a team to playoffs or more.

.

Whether Jones has a Hall of Fame career or a is a complete bust, I don't think he will throw picks like Manning did his rookie year. The Colts were not a good team Manning's rookie year and they let him open up the offense right off the bat. I expect the Pats to approach Jones they same way they did with Brady early in his career with a more of a horizontal offense making safer throws.

 

[Rob0729]

On paper this Patriots team IS loaded. I expect nothing less than 10-6 based on talent alone.

As for Mac Jones. I'm super optimistic about the kid but I prefer for him to sit his first year unless A) Cam Newton gets hurt B) Cam Newton stinks it up through the first 6 weeks. People seem to forget that Patrick "Walks on Water" Mahomes sat out 15/16 games his rookie year.

I understand that as fans we are fired up to see what Mac Jones can do. But give him time to learn, grow, and hold the clipboard first. You don't want to ruin a good young player because of impatience. That's what the BAD franchises do. *Looks at Jags and Jets*

If he is truly as NFL ready as some say, I don't know if he needs to sit a year. If the game isn't too fast for him as it is for a lot of rookie QBs, him holding the clipboard for an entire year may have little to no benefit over getting him out there and getting game experience.

Look at Justin Herbert last year. As a rookie, he played better than most of the seasoned pro starting QBs. He didn't need to sit. Not all QBs need to sit and learn.

 

[scott99]

I get that the NFL mediots are all excited with QBs that run a 4.4, but the pure pocket QBs still succeed in the NFL. If you look at the stats as far as passing yards, 4 of the top 10 passers were pure pocket passers. Depending on what you consider Rodgers & Herbert, you could make that as 6 out of the top 10 (I consider them pocket passers who can run). As far as TD passes, its 6 out of the top 10 once again. If you look at the last 10 SB champions, 8 of those teams had pure pocket passers.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Whether Jones has a Hall of Fame career or a is a complete bust, I don't think he will throw picks like Manning did his rookie year. The Colts were not a good team Manning's rookie year and they let him open up the offense right off the bat. I expect the Pats to approach Jones they same way they did with Brady early in his career with a more of a horizontal offense making safer throws.

Being in Saban's offense for 4 years Jones might be a bit ahead of Brady coming into camp knowing the offensive structure. Obviously the Pats and Alabama do not run the same system but similarity, being a smart kid, and having 4 years at Alabama might give Jones a head start. Let's hope.

Stretches of the Pats 2020 season were brutual to watch. We lost a lot of games with Grogan, Eason, and Bledsoe, but at least there were stretches of good play that made the games watchable.

 

[scott99]

If he is truly as NFL ready as some say, I don't know if he needs to sit a year. If the game isn't too fast for him as it is for a lot of rookie QBs, him holding the clipboard for an entire year may have little to no benefit over getting him out there and getting game experience.

Look at Justin Herbert last year. As a rookie, he played better than most of the seasoned pro starting QBs. He didn't need to sit. Not all QBs need to sit and learn.

Herbert was gifted the starting job due to injury and man did he run with it. I do feel he eventually would’ve started, but I think their intentions were to let him sit for a while.

 

[Rob0729]

Being in Saban's offense for 4 years Jones might be a bit ahead of Brady coming into camp knowing the offensive structure. Obviously the Pats and Alabama do not run the same system but similarity, being a smart kid, and having 4 years at Alabama might give Jones a head start. Let's hope.

Stretches of the Pats 2020 season were brutual to watch. We lost a lot of games with Grogan, Eason, and Bledsoe, but at least there were stretches of good play that made the games watchable.

Brady needed that year of sitting and probably needed to be eased into opening up the offense because he came from a different era where few college teams ran pro style offenses and he had very little college starting experience (even less than Jones). Jones spent his time learning in a pro style offense. That is why people think he is NFL ready.

 

[mike_usagisan]

If he is truly as NFL ready as some say, I don't know if he needs to sit a year. If the game isn't too fast for him as it is for a lot of rookie QBs, him holding the clipboard for an entire year may have little to no benefit over getting him out there and getting game experience.

Look at Justin Herbert last year. As a rookie, he played better than most of the seasoned pro starting QBs. He didn't need to sit. Not all QBs need to sit and learn.

I think there’s a good chance he’s the best QB on the roster by the end of training camp. But he has to win the job.

 

[Rob0729]

Herbert was gifted the starting job due to injury and man did he run with it. I do feel he eventually would’ve started, but I think their intentions were to let him sit for a while.

I just used Herbert as an example of a rookie QB who had massive success without sitting no matter the circumstances around it. I doubt Jones would have the season close to what Herbert had.

I don't think Jones should be handed the starting QB off the bat nor will Belichick hand it to him. But if he end up being ready to start at some point in his rookie season and he gives the Pats the best chance to win, I don't know if he will benefit for sitting for the entire year.

 

[Nellie]

Because there is a belief that the league is made for these athletic mobile QBs and the pocket passers are fading away because of the speed of the game. I don't buy it. I think it is more of a product of type of the top QBs coming out of college in recent years.

But that may be working the Pats' favor here. Maybe people are under valuing Jones because he doesn't fit the mold of what they think is the prototypical NFL QB in 2021 and not his talent.

I agree and BB is an old school guy. He seems to prefer 2 TEs and a FB. Stand-up, less mobile QBs are what he likes in his offense. On the other side he appears to want his D to evolve to the point where it can be flexible with either type of offense. But he is stubborn with his type of QB. Part of me was hoping for a Fields type QB, I'm ok with Mac though. Mac's stats point to someone who is very accurate with the ball and I don't think was strictly about playing for the Tide.
Although with the success of Mahomes, I think we will see more not fewer mobile QBs in upcoming drafts.

 

[rogerthat]

Great analysis by this guy. Also confirmed what I saw on tape from him.
Between the numbers, Jones is very impressive. Confident, crisp, quick decisions, and very quick release (reminds me a little of Jimmy G with the quickness of his release). I literally have ZERO concerns about his ability in between the numbers; I think he has a chance to be spectacular in that area.

Outside the numbers, he is inconsistent. My take is that his inconsistency is due to lack of arm strength. Lack of arm strength affects his confidence, his mechanics, and even his accuracy at times when he tries to muscle the ball through and gets that tailing effect- similar to a major league outfielder with below average arm strength trying to muscle a long throw.

For me, it's a concern but I wouldn't call it a major concern. There have been plenty of QBs that have succeeded at the pro level with poor throwing arms. Do I think it could improve some in time? Maybe- probably. But it's not going to be a 20% improvement as someone else on this thread suggested. It may not have to be. Most likely he's going to need near perfect mechanics that are repeatable under pressure to make it work. Can he do it? Some learn to, many others do not. That's why I would have preferred to see him drafted in round 2 or ideally round 3. But we've got him now, so hopefully with good coaching he will get there.

Only other negative thing is that when he gets to his 3rd or 4th read he tends to be just a click late, especially when he has to turn his body and throw to the other side of the field. This is something that even pro starting quarterbacks not named Brady often struggle with. And that will improve almost certainly.

Last thing- an underrated part of his game is the Marino/Brady effect. Very good subtle movement in pocket and a good feel.

Plenty to like if he can overcome that subpar throwing arm.

 

[scott99]

Brady needed that year of sitting and probably needed to be eased into opening up the offense because he came from a different era where few college teams ran pro style offenses and he had very little college starting experience (even less than Jones). Jones spent his time learning in a pro style offense. That is why people think he is NFL ready.

Also, it was stated that Brady added 15 pounds in his 1st offseason, even in his lower body, which gave him more mph on his passes. I believe it was documented that Brady had improved on his throwing power after his rookie season.

 

[Sicilian]

A lot of the knock on Jones is that he's some sort of stiff whose "only" skill is passing the ball to a teammate Apparently, unless you can run around in the backfield like a startled coyote for 10 seconds while a WR gets open *eventually*, then you're just no good in the "new" NFL. QBs now seemingly shouldn't worry too much about the playbook. as long as he can handle "unscheduled" plays i.e. blown plays, then he'll do just fine.

Weird thing is I don't see Burrows or Lawrence (last two No. 1 picks) as the Lance/Mahomes/Rogers/Wilson type. They can step into the pocket and scramble for a few yards, but to me they are primarily pocket passers. Just think this Mahomes obsession is skewing people's opinion on what QBs should do. Just because he does it doesn't mean that what everyone else does is old school and redundant.

And honestly I think Mahomes' scrambling and those "how did he even throw that" plays are an overblown part of his game. He's not throwing for 5000 yards and 50 touchdowns because he's running around like a badger high on bath salts every other play. He's a good pocket passer who can also run when he has to. He may run a bit more than he SHOULD (for health reasons), but you don't put up the numbers he does in the passing game if you're not a fundamentally sound passer too, it just wouldn't hold up.

Any team trying to find the next Mahomes and focusing on his highlight reel plays is missing the point.

What Jersey number he will ask for/get ? #10 (College #) ? #12 (TB's old #) ?



NOW this is ironic!!!!!

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If Jones wears #12, it shows a serious lack of awareness both for him and the team. No way anyone wants that to happen or lets that happen.

 

[scott99]

Great analysis by this guy. Also confirmed what I saw on tape from him.
Between the numbers, Jones is very impressive. Confident, crisp, quick decisions, and very quick release (reminds me a little of Jimmy G with the quickness of his release). I literally have ZERO concerns about his ability in between the numbers; I think he has a chance to be spectacular in that area.

Outside the numbers, he is inconsistent. My take is that his inconsistency is due to lack of arm strength. Lack of arm strength affects his confidence, his mechanics, and even his accuracy at times when he tries to muscle the ball through and gets that tailing effect- similar to a major league outfielder with below average arm strength trying to muscle a long throw.

For me, it's a concern but I wouldn't call it a major concern. There have been plenty of QBs that have succeeded at the pro level with poor throwing arms. Do I think it could improve some in time? Maybe- probably. But it's not going to be a 20% improvement as someone else on this thread suggested. It may not have to be. Most likely he's going to need near perfect mechanics that are repeatable under pressure to make it work. Can he do it? Some learn to, many others do not. That's why I would have preferred to see him drafted in round 2 or ideally round 3. But we've got him now, so hopefully with good coaching he will get there.

Only other negative thing is that when he gets to his 3rd or 4th read he tends to be just a click late, especially when he has to turn his body and throw to the other side of the field. This is something that even pro starting quarterbacks not named Brady often struggle with. And that will improve almost certainly.

Last thing- an underrated part of his game is the Marino/Brady effect. Very good subtle movement in pocket and a good feel.

Plenty to like if he can overcome that subpar throwing arm.

Disagree that he has a weak or poor throwing arm. But if people want to lump him into that category. People always said Brady, Brees and Peyton Manning didn’t have strong arms. Three 1st ballot Hall Of Famers.

I’d say Jones has a strong arm, it’s just not a rocket like some of the guys in his draft class. I’ve seen some of his deep passes going 50+ yards in the air, and be on the money. Call me crazy, but I like accuracy, intelligence and quick releases. His arm is very good, just not elite, not a rocket.

 

[PaulThePat]

His arm is very good, just not elite, not a rocket.

Just move the chains. That will do for me.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

A lot of the knock on Jones is that he's some sort of stiff whose "only" skill is passing the ball to a teammate Apparently, unless you can run around in the backfield like a startled coyote for 10 seconds while a WR gets open *eventually*, then you're just no good in the "new" NFL. QBs now seemingly shouldn't worry too much about the playbook. as long as he can handle "unscheduled" plays i.e. blown plays, then he'll do just fine.

Weird thing is I don't see Burrows or Lawrence (last two No. 1 picks) as the Lance/Mahomes/Rogers/Wilson type. They can step into the pocket and scramble for a few yards, but to me they are primarily pocket passers. Just think this Mahomes obsession is skewing people's opinion on what QBs should do. Just because he does it doesn't mean that what everyone else does is old school and redundant.

It's like moneyball but even dumber and the answer more straight forward. It's not about getting a bust who can hit a 550 yard homer occasionally, go for the guy with OBP and consistency. The #1 skills for a QB are decisions every single play on where to go with the ball, and delivering it with rhythm and accuracy. A 10 yard pass is always better than a 4 yard scamble. A 4000 yard passing season is better than a 500 yard rushing QB season (plus longevity). There's so much silliness at the QB position trying to engineer certain types of QBs when a pocket QB is still the best type if you're looking for the longest term duration player.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Disagree that he has a weak or poor throwing arm. But if people want to lump him into that category. People always said Brady, Brees and Peyton Manning didn’t have strong arms. Three 1st ballot Hall Of Famers.

I’d say Jones has a strong arm, it’s just not a rocket like some of the guys in his draft class. I’ve seen some of his deep passes going 50+ yards in the air, and be on the money. Call me crazy, but I like accuracy, intelligence and quick releases. His arm is very good, just not elite, not a rocket.

His deep ball is insanely good.
And who cares if we aren't throwing a lot of far-sideline hook routes, those are risky in general for interceptions if a DB jumps it. Attack the middle of the field relentlessly, use 2 TEs and play action, and burn them deep with this kid's amazing deep ball accuracy and rhythm.

 

[Bill Lee]

Like many of Bill's picks he wouldn't have been my choice but like you I'm happy we have a QB with some promise/hope. I like Mac a lot tbh just don't like the value here. I've said he's a Kirk Cousins, Jimmy G type/tier QB for months now (which isn't a bad thing, some posters didn't like that but I'm seeing those comps today). Good QB's that can handle/process info, adjust and deliver accurate passes. Guys that look right, things look right-like they should be. Guys that aren't going to hurt you but at the same time they aren't making players better, they're efficient and keep things moving. So again the value wasn't there for me, obviously Bill/Josh & co felt different.

Not sure why you would not give up a mid first round pick for a Cousins / Jimmy G level QB for the next 4-5 years on mid 1st round money while at the same time the league is paying players like Cousins and JG $25M+. Even if we expand the comparables to others I've read and try to find a mid point, I think giving up #15 for that in today's world is a good value.

I know I sound like a homer here, but I do see a lot of value of bringing someone directly into our system and shaping him as we see fit. One thing I've heard is that it's easier to learn something than to unlearn it. Granted, MJ has learned a lot already, but he's learned it from one of the best coaching staffs on one of the best college teams ever. I think this kid can and will get better with time.

It'll be interesting to see what we do with next years #1 and consider how many Pats fans would have gladly put that into a deal to get the #4 or #5 QB in this year's draft.