We Can't Trade The Pick NOW, Can We?

[Patsfanin Philly]

Someone explain to me why the Cowboys would want McFadden anyway? .

He's a Razorback like Jerry Jones and Jones is a huge Arkansas backer who is high on McFadden. What Jerry wants, he usually gets..........

 

[Metaphors]

All I'm saying is, and I don't want to get ahead of myself here and realize that I'm just still very raw about Sunday, but at some point when you can keep failing to execute when it matters most perhaps you need to slightly modify your drafting and scouting tendencies. We already extracted heaps of value, not to mention paid Brady around $30m less than other teams would've, so maybe it's time to realize that a couple of maybe overpriced studs are just what we need to provide that extra spark down the stretch...

Would you be saying this if:
1) Eli's jersey wasn't loosely stitched
2) Rodney's hit wasn't in the exact place where the ball was stuck between the receiver's hand and his helmet.

If Eli was sacked or the pass was incomplete and the Pats went on to win, would you still advocate changing the drafting and scouting plans?

Sometimes you're the windshield. Sometimes you're the bug. Win or lose, Sunday is gone and it is now the offseason. I would rather see Belichick and Pioli putting their energy into moving the team forward rather than second-guessing the formula that has made the Pats a model franchise.

The Pats are still in the catbird seat. They have all the personnel in place for continued success. No major salary cap issues. A cake division. Collateral in the draft. And now the focus of 2 straight years of crushing defeats to end the season.

The Pats hit a crushing drive on a par 5, hit it onto the green in 2 and two-putted for a birdie. Their opponent holed one from the fairway for an eagle. I don't think that is a reason to rework your golf swing. Maybe spending some extra time on the putting green would be nice...

 

[makewayhomer]

Someone explain to me why the Cowboys would want McFadden anyway? They've got Marion Barber III, and Julius Jones. Barber III + McFadden would be a sick overload of a combo, but how can they afford that?

Sometimes I wish we'd get a little reckless and roll the dice on somebody. The wallet must be opened, there's no way around it, yeah get guys as low as you can for cap room and develop them more, but at some point I think you need to go after a more high profile, already-at-a-pro-type-level player and see what he can bring to the table, even if it means paying a few million more than you would like.

here is the problem with what you're saying: EITHER WAY, the wallet will be opened. the Pats are going to be right at the cap limit regardless of what they do with the pick.

the Pats are the Pats partially b/c we haven't rolled the dice while spending outlandish sums on draft picks. now isn't the time to start acting like everyone else.

************ the team finished 18-1 and an Asante pick from 19-0 and you want to start changing everything we do??

some people on this board are ******* crazy

 

[Marko]

You can't really make any absolute statements about the draft because it's something that's always in flux until it's over. That is why BB is so good at accrueing extra picks, because he goes in with a very flexible plan, so he can field offers or do his own deals as he sees what's unfolding.

 

[Watson's IQ]

Couldn't disagree more with the idea we now can't trade the pick. You seem to be implying that this team has some glaring hole which needs to be addressed before they can contend again. Well, that's not true. They have one of the easiest schedules in NFL history next year, and right now they're the early favorites for the Super Bowl. So if the argument is for drafting someone at 7 who can step in right away, it's just not reasonable. That's not how BB coaches draft picks anyways, they don't usually see major roles until season two.

I would much rather trade down for several picks (trying to recoup some spygate losses) than use it on a high prospect, unless you think there is a SURE THING at #7, which I don't. This is compounded if either McFadden or Matt Ryan slip to #7, as those strike me as the two guys that people are most likely to trade up to get. As others have suggested, if you could get Jones to trade you the two #1s for our pick (I checked the trade value chart a while back, and it was actually quite even) if DM is there, you do it in a second and laugh all the way to the bank.

 

[Metaphors]

Couldn't disagree more with the idea we now can't trade the pick.

I would much rather trade down for several picks (trying to recoup some spygate losses) than use it on a high prospect, unless you think there is a SURE THING at #7, which I don't. This is compounded if either McFadden or Matt Ryan slip to #7, as those strike me as the two guys that people are most likely to trade up to get. As others have suggested, if you could get Jones to trade you the two #1s for our pick (I checked the trade value chart a while back, and it was actually quite even) if DM is there, you do it in a second and laugh all the way to the bank.

Totally agree. Look at how I think the top picks will shake out:

1. Ryan
2. Jake Long
3. McFadden
4. Dorsey
5. Clady
6. Gholston

This would be the worst-case scenario for the Pats since that leaves them at #7 with Chris Long, Sedrick Ellis and Brian Brohm the next "value" guys on the board. The Pats would have to hope someone really wanted to get ahead of the Ravens for Brohm (CHI) or the Bengals for Ellis (DEN). Under no circumstances do I believe the Pats will take a CB at #7. The money is too steep and the CB class is deep, though unspectacular.

The goal for the Pats should be to trade back far enough to get a 2009 #1 pick (have you seen the LB's in 2009?). If Jake Long (PIT/SEA) or McFadden (HOU/DAL) drop, the Pats should be able to get a 2009 #1 in a trade-down. Ryan, Dorsey or Clady should also get some interest, but probably not for a future #1. If Gholston slips, the Pats may stick at #7 if the trading possibilities aren't great.

So root for Chris Long, Ellis and Brohm to have killer combine workouts later this month...

 

[Watson's IQ]

Totally agree. Look at how I think the top picks will shake out:

1. Ryan
2. Jake Long
3. McFadden
4. Dorsey
5. Clady
6. Gholston

This would be the worst-case scenario for the Pats since that leaves them at #7 with Chris Long, Sedrick Ellis and Brian Brohm the next "value" guys on the board. The Pats would have to hope someone really wanted to get ahead of the Ravens for Brohm (CHI) or the Bengals for Ellis (DEN). Under no circumstances do I believe the Pats will take a CB at #7. The money is too steep and the CB class is deep, though unspectacular.

The goal for the Pats should be to trade back far enough to get a 2009 #1 pick (have you seen the LB's in 2009?). If Jake Long (PIT/SEA) or McFadden (HOU/DAL) drop, the Pats should be able to get a 2009 #1 in a trade-down. Ryan, Dorsey or Clady should also get some interest, but probably not for a future #1. If Gholston slips, the Pats may stick at #7 if the trading possibilities aren't great.

So root for Chris Long, Ellis and Brohm to have killer combine workouts later this month...

If that should happen, I would say take Chris Long and don't look back. Do you really think that the Jets would prefer Gholston over Long? I'm not so sure.

We're in agreement that the best trading scenario for the Pats is for McFadden or Ryan to fall to #7. While I don't agree with you that Ryan will be the top overall pick (assuming that stays with the Dolphins), I think he's much more likely to be gone. The ability to pick DM at #7 (given the symbolism of where AP was picked last year) would make him an incredibly attractive chip.

I don't think a Chris Long in that slot fetches as much in trade, so if your scenario plays out I think I would just take him for ourselves.

 

[ATippett56]

Unless there's a HUGE value that they legitimately find somewhere else, I won't second guess, but I feel if it's a close decision and it comes down to a financial concern I say fkn splurge and get the best player you can get at #7, maybe an offensive tackle or the best linebacker available.

Anyone agree? Screw trying to save the money and develop a youngster with potential, we need something NOW, someone with that ability already to further coach and have him ready to contribute by opening week. Maybe another stud for the offensive line is the way to go.

How about we trade you to the Jets message boards for a bag of potato chips?

 

[MRBLAZE]

How about we trade you to the Jets message boards for a bag of potato chips?

If you don't think we should take Vernon Gholston at #7 then I don't know what to say. He's a beast and could help immediately.

 

[Watson's IQ]

If you don't think we should take Vernon Gholston at #7 then I don't know what to say. He's a beast and could help immediately.

Getting guys that can help immediately is not really the BB draft mantra. I'm not ruling out taking a linebacker, but if you expect one to step in on day 1, master BB's defensive system, and be a solid contributor all season, than it's I who doesn't know what to say.

If we bring in a young LB, it will need to be gradually. I'm not at all saying Gholston isn't that guy, and I wouldn't balk at taking either him or Long at #7, but I still say we're far better suited by trading down and looking at a corner.

 

[Metaphors]

If that should happen, I would say take Chris Long and don't look back. Do you really think that the Jets would prefer Gholston over Long? I'm not so sure.

We're in agreement that the best trading scenario for the Pats is for McFadden or Ryan to fall to #7. While I don't agree with you that Ryan will be the top overall pick (assuming that stays with the Dolphins), I think he's much more likely to be gone. The ability to pick DM at #7 (given the symbolism of where AP was picked last year) would make him an incredibly attractive chip.

I don't think a Chris Long in that slot fetches as much in trade, so if your scenario plays out I think I would just take him for ourselves.

I'm not sure what the Jets would do re: Long vs. Gholston. I'm just not sold on Long like most. I live in ACC country and it was a down year. Long is an effort guy with intangibles and a great motor. Low ceiling and unsure how his size/speed (or lack thereof) will translate to the NFL.

Ryan shouldn't be #1, but I think the Fins will get stuck there. Beck is not a Parcells guy and I don't think he wants to go long without a franchise QB.

Gholston is about the only guy I can see the Pats taking at #7, and that is assuming that the Pats see him as a guy who can play with his hand off the ground (seems like he can). IMO, the other guys in the #7 value range are just more or less valuable in trading down.

 

[Watson's IQ]

I'm not sure what the Jets would do re: Long vs. Gholston. I'm just not sold on Long like most. I live in ACC country and it was a down year. Long is an effort guy with intangibles and a great motor. Low ceiling and unsure how his size/speed (or lack thereof) will translate to the NFL.

Ryan shouldn't be #1, but I think the Fins will get stuck there. Beck is not a Parcells guy and I don't think he wants to go long without a franchise QB.

Gholston is about the only guy I can see the Pats taking at #7, and that is assuming that the Pats see him as a guy who can play with his hand off the ground (seems like he can). IMO, the other guys in the #7 value range are just more or less valuable in trading down.

You're correct in your points on Long. Maybe a part of me overrates the "NFL Pedigree" aspect when looking at him. I'm sure many are likely to do the same.

As for Ryan to the Fins, I just don't know. Obviously Beck is not a Parcells guy but I have a very hard time believing Tuna is just going to declare him a sunk cost without giving him a real look. He might not be his guy, but he's still on the roster, and picking a QB #1 overall the year after you just picked a guy in the 2nd round who was supposed to be your future is not how winning franchises are built. I think Parcells knows that. Reminds me of all the WRs the Lions kept taking in round 1, I just don't see it. I think it's a trade, or Dorsey for the Fins.

 

[Metaphors]

I think it's a trade, or Dorsey for the Fins.

I think they would love a trade, but I don't think they will find any takers. I don't know what defensive philosophy the Fins will run, but if it is Parcells traditional 3-4, I'm not convinced that Dorsey is a good fit. He looks like a NT but penetrates like a DE. He is talented enough to be productive anywhere, but that is a lot of money with those "fit" question marks (at least in my mind).

I really believe the Fins would love to convince Jerry Jones that he really wants the #1 to select McFadden. Maybe even give Jones a discount on the trade value chart to do it. Unless you are in love with Ryan or McFadden, #1 is a lousy spot to be.

 

[Watson's IQ]

I really believe the Fins would love to convince Jerry Jones that he really wants the #1 to select McFadden. Maybe even give Jones a discount on the trade value chart to do it. Unless you are in love with Ryan or McFadden, #1 is a lousy spot to be.

I agree with this. #1 is just the spot the Fins don't want to be because there's no clear cut #1 prospect. They don't need a RB obviously, and as I said before I don't think they'll pick Ryan either. I'm sure they'd love to get both those first round picks, and maybe a little more, from Dallas, but I'm not sure that it's gonna happen. I think in the end they might just bite the bullet and take a defensive guy, as much as they'd like to trade out. Not a great year to hold that top pick, I concur.

 

[cupofjoe1962]

I agree we need a LT so that we can move Light to RT.

We have a great pass blocking line (not counting the last SB), but I feel
the OL struggles with run blocking.

If we can get a good LT, it will probably help our running game.
I never feel confident we are going to run and get a 4th & 1 with Light at
LT. I remember being glad we got a 5 yard penalty against the Ravens on
a 4th and 1, because I knew we would pass on a 4th & 6.

A good LT could be a starter on the Patriots for 10+ years.

Remember the days of Hannah & Gray?
It didn't matter who ran behind the line, they got 4+ yards per carry.

 

[mgteich]

Of course it doesn't matter to you that Samuel and Gay are FREE agents. The patriots are less likely to sign these players than other teams.

simple math...the more money spent on a high, unproven 1st round pick, the less money to spend to try and retain your own free agents and go after other teams free agents.

 

[mgteich]

The only ones who think Light needs to be rplaced are posters.

I agree we need a LT so that we can move Light to RT.

We have a great pass blocking line (not counting the last SB), but I feel
the OL struggles with run blocking.

If we can get a good LT, it will probably help our running game.
I never feel confident we are going to run and get a 4th & 1 with Light at
LT. I remember being glad we got a 5 yard penalty against the Ravens on
a 4th and 1, because I knew we would pass on a 4th & 6.

A good LT could be a starter on the Patriots for 10+ years.

Remember the days of Hannah & Gray?
It didn't matter who ran behind the line, they got 4+ yards per carry.

 

[VJCPatriot]

The only ones who think Light needs to be rplaced are posters.

Why do quite a few mocks have the Pats taking Clady then?
Sweeping generalizations are just that, and it doesn't make em true just because you say so.