Walsh's attorney: Walsh has tapes

[pao]

Re: PFT: Walsh does indeed have tapes!

...also "interesting" that he claims the information is "damaging" not just to the Patriots, but to the NFL as well.[

Not sure I saw the claim that the information would be damaging to the rest of the NFL too. If so bring it on. Clean it up and move on.

Here's a question, though--where could he have possibly stood where he would (A) avoid detection while (B) actually being able to record the walkthrough? I mean, if he was anywhere you could be seen on the field, don't you think someone would have seen him at the time, and recognized that he didn't belong there?

Who cares? Public opinion doesn't. He either did it of didn't. The Patriots either had the tape or didn't. If they did, they're screwed. If they didn't, great.

pao

 

[Jade Fox]

Re: PFT: Walsh does indeed have tapes!

IMO only "a" is important. Public opinioin will be far harsher if true, even if Goodell doesn't believe the Pats authorized it. Additionally I believe if Walsh has one tape he probably has others AND there are other people that will come out now or in the future with more info. REmember my caveat though, IF TRUE. I'm not sure what Walsh is putting out there is even true. We may NEVER know. The NFL is certainly not trying very hard to find out.

pao

Wouldn't these "other people" would've come out by now if there was more info?
They could've come out with their stories back in September.

So far it's only one guy who's making any type of claims.

And who cares about public opinion at this point? If the Pats are vindicated and receive no further punishment, no amount of public outcry can change that.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

You can't tape practices. I can't imagine that even a homer would ever argue that.

We might argue about the benefits of taping particular practices (i.e. if the Pats taped the walkthrough, it didn't help them any during the game) but the whole concept of practicing would become ridiculous if teams knew ahead of time what you were going to do.

Stealing signals which are relayed out in the open is a different story. That's just gamesmanship. You can easily do it with your eyes.

Only problem is in reality teams have done it, or at least sent spies to watch each others practices. Who's to say the practice isn't wider spread, that teams don't have contacts within other teams who sell or trade information - staff assistants on NFL teams work for peanuts you know. Teams acquire playbooks - sometimes from former players and sometimes because coaches feel they are entitled to something they helped develop so they take it with them when they go. Eric swiped a laptop with all sorts of information on it though we didn't make a stink because that's a can of worms nobody can afford to see opened. Walsh was in the habit of trading for favors (golf times) by his own admission, so who knows what he may have acquired or bartered with over his years here.

And is there even a rule in the NFL rulebook that stipulates you cannot spy on a competitor? When Miami was outed for having the information they did on our offensive calls, their defense was they acquired it legally by matching up existing coaches video the league provides everyone with to audio they either enhanced themselves or purchased from a third party. Heck, I've seen tape of the Bears SB practice through a chain link fence on You Tube...

I think that is also why the NFL is checking out the background of this witness. Why that shocks anyone is beyond me because a witness is only as good as their reputation. And lawyer worth his salt has investigators check the background of any potential witness against them. Heck, Roger invited one over to his house for the first time in 7 years and when called on it (because contact with investigators is not remotely the same as witness tampering by a defendant) there were congressmen rising to his defense.

And given how much film is provided by the league for teams to study each other's tendancies, you always know what the other guy is going to do...just not when. Teams may put a new wrinkle in here and there, but most teams don't change up what they do or how they do it all that much over the course of a season because in the end execution is what matters and that requires repitition.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

A former friend of Walsh's said that in the comments section of barstoolsports.com. Here's what she said:

I have known Matt Walsh personally - he married someone that I was friends with....no longer friends with her partly because once she met Matt she became an even bigger liar than she was before - his influence. He is abusive to his wife if that is any indication of the type of person he is Matt is one of the worst people I have ever met in my life - he doesnt know what truth is and he always looks out for himself. When he was fired from the Patriots he told all of us he quit. I always knew it was a lie because he was collecting unemployment...so the patriots must not have given him any kind of package when the fired him. Right before he got married he was emailing some stripper about how he wants to rub up against her and he was so stupid that he copied everyone in his address book including his soon to be wifes family and friends. He said that his email account was stolen by someone and that is who emailed the stripper. Hopefully all his lies will catch up with him this time
— Kellyt, Feb 07, 2008, 7:47pm

http://www.barstoolsports.com/randomthoughts/2008/02/02/who_would_you_rather_stab/

There was an earlier post over on fannation.com from someone else who said he knew Matt through mutual friends. It pretty much painted the same picture of the wannabe big shot who was a self promoting fraud and a liar. Said he could have been in legal trouble when the Pat's canned him but they chose to just let him move on... And Specter and others are aghast that the league would be looking into a witnesses background...pahleeese.

 

[DaBruinz]

If I was the Pats, I'd go to the cops and ask to have Walsh arrested for possession of stolen property. The guy is CLEARLY a thief and should be thrown in jail. He has NO integrity what-so-ever.

I think its laughable that he was protection from violation of his non-disclosure agreement and any other legal matters because of a situation that no law is truly involved.

 

[DaBruinz]

If he does have a tape, than we have seen the last game coached for the Patriots by Bill Belichik. Kraft will have no choice but to let him go as it will be the only way to separate the team from the cheating allegations. I don't like it, but it will happen. Very sad. I hope Walsh has nothing.

Listen. TAPING GAMES IS NOT ILLEGAL. Read that again. The only RULE that the Patriots broke was taping from the sidelines.

I really wish people would figure that out instead of listening to the media stupidity.

 

[DaBruinz]

They won't be trying to convict the Pats of a crime. Just trying to further tarnish their legacy and further the ****storm of mediots and fans calling for the games to be overturned, which makes it even more ludicrous that he be given indemnity.

Nothing short of BB and/or other active coaches in the league coming out and admitting stuff like this went on all the time would stop the tidal wave of crap that would happen if the Pats are found to have taped more than admitted.

Which, since BB already admitted to having been using videotape since he became coach, kind of only leaves the Rams walk through as their White Whale. The Pats have denied that, so being found lying would be damaging.

Where have you been? Other coaches have come out and said that they have taped games. Including ERIC MANGINI.

 

[Jimke]

My first guess is that Walsh stole the tapes after being fired, but

I wonder why the Pats would let him have access to the tape room

after firing him? I would think they escorted him to the door after

he picked up his personal items.

Another remote possibility is that Walsh was not instructed by the

Pats to tape the walk thru. He made the tape for his own personal

future use.

 

[DaBruinz]

Indemnification agreements are like any agreements - simply what I will do for you and what the you will do for me. Walsh could easily be covered for damages arising from theft of the videotape and for breach of a confidentiality agreement. This matter is purely civil unless he lies under oath, then it become a criminal matter. I cannot believe any law enforcement agency has interest in investigating a stolen tape (not to mention statutes of limitations on theft charges given the time of theft (2002/2003)).

If this clown is still saying the terms of the indemnification agreement are not right, it starts to sound a little fishy. No agreement will cover perjury on the stand, and I suspect slander/libel claims will similarly not be covered. In short, if you lie on the stand you deal with the damages. Testify honestly and violate a confidentiality agreement in doing so and the NFL picks up the bill. It is a simple issue, so the fact there is all this wrangling tends to make me believe Walsh has nothing to add.

At some level, I still believe mediots in contact with Walsh may have told him it makes for good theater to draw this saga out. Once Specter and Walsh go away, Spygate has no legs which means these mediots will have to actually write something creative rather than catering to Pats haters.

Last I looked, THEFT and Possession of stolen property are more than just civil issues. They are criminal issues. And that is what Walsh is trying to get out of.

As I said, the Patriots should cut him off, NOW, and have him arrested for ownership of said tapes. And if he gave them to his lawyer, his lawyer would, by law, be required to turn them in, or be in violation of the law himself.

 

[chrisfx811]

Where have you been? Other coaches have come out and said that they have taped games. Including ERIC MANGINI.

You're right, but I am saying that there needs to be a vocal majority of active coaches speaking out about this.
I have a feeling that the collective NFL will need to rally the troops, or BB is going to have to be a fall guy.

 

[mgm79]

Last I looked, THEFT and Possession of stolen property are more than just civil issues. They are criminal issues. And that is what Walsh is trying to get out of.

As I said, the Patriots should cut him off, NOW, and have him arrested for ownership of said tapes. And if he gave them to his lawyer, his lawyer would, by law, be required to turn them in, or be in violation of the law himself.

That would be a terrible move, it would make the Patriots look like they are trying to cover something up.

 

[vyrago]

Makes me wonder if someone on the Rams would give Walsh one of their own tapes so Walsh can claim it came from the Patriots.

Might enhance the prospects of the lawsuit's success.

 

[pao]

Re: PFT: Walsh does indeed have tapes!

Wouldn't these "other people" would've come out by now if there was more info?

Not necessarily. And remember, I said IF TRUE. Additional people will come out if what Walsh is saying IS TRUE, not a given. IF, a big if, what Walsh said is true and things like this have actually been going on there will come a time when others involved will come forward. It will be after their association with the Patriots or the NFL is at an end. Until then they have too much to lose to come forward, imo. IF TRUE! I don't think it is true though.

They could've come out with their stories back in September.

Why didn't Walsh come out in September?

So far it's only one guy who's making any type of claims.

Right now. I'm just saying that if his claims are true there will be others with more info eventually. We'll see.

And who cares about public opinion at this point? If the Pats are vindicated and receive no further punishment, no amount of public outcry can change that.

That wasn't the point. There will be no additonal outcry if the Pats are "vindicated". There WILL be additional scorn and outcry if this guy produces a tape (or tapes) even if there is no further punishment by the league.

pao

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: PFT: Walsh does indeed have tapes!

Not sure I saw the claim that the information would be damaging to the rest of the NFL too. If so bring it on. Clean it up and move on.

Who cares? Public opinion doesn't. He either did it of didn't. The Patriots either had the tape or didn't. If they did, they're screwed. If they didn't, great.

pao

If WALSH has the tape, then how would the Patriots be screwed? The Patriots were only told to hand over all the tapes they had in their possession. They did so. The tape in Walsh's possession is out of their control.

What I would find funny is if the tape that Walsh has is the same one that Goodell destroyed. Then Walsh would be screwed. Cause he'd be in possession of stolen property as well as guilty of theft.

Personally, the Patriots should have the cops pick him up on theft and possession of stolen property charges and then lets see him try to bargain his way out of it.

 

[chrisfx811]

You can't tape practices. I can't imagine that even a homer would ever argue that.

We might argue about the benefits of taping particular practices (i.e. if the Pats taped the walkthrough, it didn't help them any during the game) but the whole concept of practicing would become ridiculous if teams knew ahead of time what you were going to do.

Stealing signals which are relayed out in the open is a different story. That's just gamesmanship. You can easily do it with your eyes.

Really, then why have the previously posted comments regarding George Allen & Tom Landry engaging in practice related spygames considered 'no big deal'.

Tom Landry & George Allen! HOFers. I guess it's ok, because back in the day, technology was much more primitive, but relative to the time period, what they did was probably not considered such.

There's another thread here, where I quoted a source who talks about teams signing other team's former players just long enough to try and extract any useful information they can regarding their plays, etc.

I mean really... we're now talking about a multi-billion dollar industry in which people's livelihood hinges on competitive advantage.

I simply asked if taping practices is forbidden in the rules. You can't say 'well of course it's not allowed', if it's not mentioned in the rules.

Why do you think rulebooks are generally the size of small phone books in many cases?

 

[DaBruinz]

That would be a terrible move, it would make the Patriots look like they are trying to cover something up.

They wouldn't be trying to cover ANYTHING up since that tape would then be EVIDENCE in the trial against Walsh and then open to the public information act. How is that trying to cover things up? It would be prosecuting a KNOWN liar and thief. That isn't covering anything up.

 

[DropKick Flutie]

For the league's sake, Walsh better have nothing. PFT and other sources have said there is a rumor that is highly likely that if BB were made a sacrificial lamb in this farce, he would blow the perverbial whistle on everything he knows about cheating in the NFL and those who participated.

Personally, I believe this rumor and I would just LOVE to see BB step up and Blow up the league if they go after him in the witch hunt. I would cheer the man on every single step of the way!

I really hope this happens. For the good of the league, this practice has to stop. BB is the face of this scandal right now, and he is probably going to take the fall, if there is a fall to take. He should blow everybody and anybody in that he is aware of that does it. This crap has to stop and the NFL has to stop covering it up.

 

[mrperrino]

THe PATS argument is simple.

"We turned over all video tapes and film in our possession that we had knowledge of to the NFL commissioner, all of them.....Any and all video footage, film, etc...tapes surfacing after the fact, were never known to be in existence, nor permission ever granted nor authorized to record by any of the PATS' employees and organization whatsoever...in fact we know these tapes were never authorized, because any and all copies and tapes were personally handed to the commissioner on such and such date, under penalty of perjury, signed affidavit, etc.."

thus leaving poor Matt all alone that he acted alone in recording footage behind the PATS back, for later use... :rocker:

 

[DaBruinz]

You're right, but I am saying that there needs to be a vocal majority of active coaches speaking out about this.
I have a feeling that the collective NFL will need to rally the troops, or BB is going to have to be a fall guy.

BB won't be a fall guy. Especially if the NFL and the Patriots have said that if Walsh was TRUTHFUL then he wouldn't have to worry about any prosecution. Personally, that tells me that the Pats and the NFL know more about the situation than they are telling.

Also, BB won't be made a fall guy. I think he has too much integrity for that. I believe that he'd go out with guns blazing. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if BB has tapes of OTHER TEAMS taping the Patriots sidelines and would release them.

As others have pointed out, the NFL is trying to quell this. Its puppets like Arlen Specter who continue to harp on this. And its ridiculous.

 

[upstater1]

Really, then why have the previously posted comments regarding George Allen & Tom Landry engaging in practice related spygames considered 'no big deal'.

Tom Landry & George Allen! HOFers. I guess it's ok, because back in the day, technology was much more primitive, but relative to the time period, what they did was probably not considered such.

There's another thread here, where I quoted a source who talks about teams signing other team's former players just long enough to try and extract any useful information they can regarding their plays, etc.

I mean really... we're now talking about a multi-billion dollar industry in which people's livelihood hinges on competitive advantage.

I simply asked if taping practices is forbidden in the rules. You can't say 'well of course it's not allowed', if it's not mentioned in the rules.

Why do you think rulebooks are generally the size of small phone books in many cases?

Halas and Allen. We're going back many many years.

Things have changed. Back then, an offseason meant you were working insurance and hauling packages for the post office.

Things are much more complex. Look at Lombardi's playbook. The guy was all about execution. not much razzle dazzle at all. By filming his practices, you learned that the Packers were preparing to beat your brains in.