Per SI: Spygate deal not close

[IcyPatriot]

It will be nice to finally not hear the names of guys like Matt Walsh and or Spygate ever again...

I talked some sh!t about Vrabel as a distraction ... Matt Walsh and Spygate are like getting hit with a golf ball from the other fairway ... these threads come out of nowhere.

 

[pao]

I said it won't happen, but Goodell would be smart to take this thing over. Right now it seems like a senile senator from PA and a washed up golfer from Hawaii are running the NFL. Goodell has handled this thing badly from beginning to end. He overreacted initially by imposing a huge fine & penalties. Then, when it became clear that everyone does this (and when a huge leak occurred in his own back yard), he destroyed the evidence and tried to bury anything further. Now he's letting some high powered atty and his weasel of a client hold him hostage. Let's face it, the only reason the NFL is "interested in what Matt Walsh has to say" is because Specter and ESPN have whipped everyone into a frenzy. They didn't even interview him when they did their own investigation.

The problem in all of this is that he has allowed the Pats to be skewered unmercifully in the Court of public opinion, and has let the NFL seem tainted by association.

If Matt Walsh hasn't agreed to give him the goods by Friday, Goodell should come out and say, "we've tried to secure Matt Walsh's cooperation, but he is asking for the moon. People who are going to tell the truth don't need these kinds of protections. Until and unless he speaks with us with no strings attached, I consider this case closed." Then he should refuse to take Specter's calls and tell the competition committee to move on to worrying about this season. Grow a set Roger.

Like the scenario with offering the Pats no further penalties in exchange for just letting Matt Walsh speak, it will never happen, but one of them should. When is Goodell up for reappointment? I hope Bob Kraft has started his "Ditch Roger" campaign with the other owners.

Great post. Thanks.

pao

 

[Mark Morse]

I have a better chance of signing with the Pats as their new KO returner (and I dare say LeKevin Smith would do a better job than I).

But, seriously, I understand why Goodell felt he had to penalize the Pats with their first-rounder, although I think that a third-rounder would have been more appropriate (keeping it in line with the equally offensive salary cap infractions).

Far fetched I know ... however, the Salary Cap infraction incurred by San Francisco was a competitive advantage. Goodell didn't know if it was or wasn't a competitive advantage when he made his ruling, because he didn't have the tapes. His punishment was more out of reaction that the Patriots would blatantly and arrogantly diregard the memo his office had just issued regarding the subject of sideline taping.

 

[pao]

This is naive thinking. If Walsh makes claims without proof, then the media has proven they will run with it regardless.

That's my point. Get Walsh into the NFL offices with the Commissioner, the Patriots and an arbiter (or some other party not related to either). Get his story and deal with it out of the public eye. If there's something substantive it SHOULD come out, if not it shouldn't. The tough thing is proving either. Something's coming out, it's just what and when.

They already have. So have the vast majority of NFL fans, including the Chargers.

What do you mean the Chargers? How have they "run with it"?

The claims about the Rams walkthrough have hurt the Patriots brand. If there's no proof it ever took place, the Patriots MUST RESERVE the right to sue Walsh and clear their name.

I absolutely 100% agree.

To expect them to sit and take it without responding is ludicrous.

Yes that would be ludicrous. I'm not advocating it. I AM advocating a get together to try to hash this thing out. Get what he has out in the open BETWEEN THEM and go from there. If he has NOTHING (which I believe to be the case) then it is done. This haggling and posturing makes both sides (the NFL and Walsh, not the Patriots) look like idiots.

pao

pao

 

[upstater1]

That's my point. Get Walsh into the NFL offices with the Commissioner, the Patriots and an arbiter (or some other party not related to either). Get his story and deal with it out of the public eye. If there's something substantive it SHOULD come out, if not it shouldn't. The tough thing is proving either. Something's coming out, it's just what and when. What do you mean the Chargers? How have they "run with it"?
I absolutely 100% agree.

Yes that would be ludicrous. I'm not advocating it. I AM advocating a get together to try to hash this thing out. Get what he has out in the open BETWEEN THEM and go from there. If he has NOTHING (which I believe to be the case) then it is done. This haggling and posturing makes both sides (the NFL and Walsh, not the Patriots) look like idiots.

pao

pao

Why would Walsh subject himself to the possibility of a lawsuit if he has nothing?

That's the problem right there.

If he has something, then he can do whatever he wants. If he has nothing, he'd be a fool to actually meet with anyone connected to the NFL.

The flip side is that the NFL and the Patriots will not give him blanket idemnity. They'd be idiots to do so.

That's why there's an impasse.

Count me as someone who would be very worried if they ever did meet. Because if they do meet, that can only mean one of two things: Matt Walsh either has tapes of the walkthrough or Matt Walsh is a stupid idiot.

I'm expecting them to never meet.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Count me as someone who would be very worried if they ever did meet. Because if they do meet, that can only mean one of two things: Matt Walsh either has tapes of the walkthrough or Matt Walsh is a stupid idiot.

This is a version of Fermi's paradox: if Walsh has a tape, why haven't we seen it yet?

Think about this for a second: what could possibly have been more damaging than, right on the eve of the Super Bowl--and, supposedly, Walsh feels he has an axe to grind--actually releasing that tape? Why stoop to mere nnuendo regarding the existence of the tape, if it actually existed?

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I said it won't happen, but Goodell would be smart to take this thing over. Right now it seems like a senile senator from PA and a washed up golfer from Hawaii are running the NFL. Goodell has handled this thing badly from beginning to end. He overreacted initially by imposing a huge fine & penalties. Then, when it became clear that everyone does this (and when a huge leak occurred in his own back yard), he destroyed the evidence and tried to bury anything further. Now he's letting some high powered atty and his weasel of a client hold him hostage. Let's face it, the only reason the NFL is "interested in what Matt Walsh has to say" is because Specter and ESPN have whipped everyone into a frenzy. They didn't even interview him when they did their own investigation.

The problem in all of this is that he has allowed the Pats to be skewered unmercifully in the Court of public opinion, and has let the NFL seem tainted by association.

If Matt Walsh hasn't agreed to give him the goods by Friday, Goodell should come out and say, "we've tried to secure Matt Walsh's cooperation, but he is asking for the moon. People who are going to tell the truth don't need these kinds of protections. Until and unless he speaks with us with no strings attached, I consider this case closed." Then he should refuse to take Specter's calls and tell the competition committee to move on to worrying about this season. Grow a set Roger.

Like the scenario with offering the Pats no further penalties in exchange for just letting Matt Walsh speak, it will never happen, but one of them should. When is Goodell up for reappointment? I hope Bob Kraft has started his "Ditch Roger" campaign with the other owners.

This is a version of Fermi's paradox: if Walsh has a tape, why haven't we seen it yet?

Great points, people. And introducing Fermi's Paradox was classic!

Goodell has really, really mishandled the entire situation. His inarticulateness and ineptness in attempting to establish his brand as a tough fair Commish willing to take on both Labor and Management has backfired. I wonder if many of the owners are coming to realize that Goodell is actually hurting the brand? There are tens of billions of dollars at stake here. OJT and apparent lack of mamagement and PR talent is not good in this situation.

 

[Joker]

opposing fans are convinced that the tape exists even though WE know it's total bull...why??..because it makes the FACT that their teams ,like SD, GOT MURDERED by the Patriots and BB seem easier to rationalize..."we were really good after all Goo Gee Gaa Gaa!!!"

 

[pao]

opposing fans are convinced that the tape exists even though WE know it's total bull...why??..because it makes the FACT that their teams ,like SD, GOT MURDERED by the Patriots and BB seem easier to rationalize..."we were really good after all Goo Gee Gaa Gaa!!!"

LOL! You are kidding right? I guess whatever gets you through the day. Most of the Charger fans I talk to think Walsh is a freak and has nothing. We laugh at ESPN and others that have sold out over this guy. But of course everyone is against the big bad Patriots because we are jealous, stupid, babies, whatever. I, nor have most Charger fans, made any reference to anything regarding Walsh related to the Chargers or games played between the Chargers and the Patriots. Generalisations are usually pretty stupid, this one is.

Cute picture, was that just before you posted this or after the SB?

pao

 

[pao]

Why would Walsh subject himself to the possibility of a lawsuit if he has nothing?

He already has. By even hinting that he has something he has subject himself to a lawsuit. I'm surprised the Patriots haven't sued him already.

If he has something, then he can do whatever he wants.

Not necessarily. If he gained it by breaking a law or if there is some language in his severence that forbids it he can't do whatever he wants.

If he has nothing, he'd be a fool to actually meet with anyone connected to the NFL.

Which is exactly why the Patriots should force the issue. He has nothing.

The flip side is that the NFL and the Patriots will not give him blanket idemnity. They'd be idiots to do so.

Then drop his ass. Say couldn't come to an agreement and say sayanora. He will drop out of site.

I'm expecting them to never meet.

Me too.

 

[upstater1]

He already has. By even hinting that he has something he has subject himself to a lawsuit. I'm surprised the Patriots haven't sued him already.

He has never hinted at anything. He's not on the record with anybody. Any mention of his story has been innuendo.

Not necessarily. If he gained it by breaking a law or if there is some language in his severence that forbids it he can't do whatever he wants.
Which is exactly why the Patriots should force the issue. He has nothing.
Then drop his ass. Say couldn't come to an agreement and say sayanora. He will drop out of site.

The Patriots are already on the record as saying there is no such confidentiality agreement with Walsh.



Me too.

10 characters

 

[pao]

10 characters

Thanks for the response.

pao

 

[NEPatriot]

this deal needs to be closed ASAP. I don't want it to show up again before a 08 SB game.

 

[AStack75]

There are two different issues - immunity and indemnity. Immunity is freedom from prosecution for a crime and can't even be offered by the NFL. It is the government or prosecutor who offers you immunity from prosecution in exchange for your testimony or cooperation, usually against another. bigger criminal they want to nail. I don't see how the NFL can offer this unless they get the prosecutors in Foxboro MA (whom I assume would be the governmental agency prosecuting Matt Walsh for crimes like theft of Patriots property or recording other persons without their permission) to agree to it. If there are potential federal crimes they would have to get the US attorney to agree too. The Pats can push for prosecution at the local level if he did steal tapes and illegally record conversations. That could be very expensive for someone who now lives in Hawaii.

Indemnity is an agreement to pay for your defense costs and any damages awarded in a civil suit against you. Essentially, Matt Walsh is looking for the NFL to become his insurance company if the Patriots (or any persons connected with them, such as BB or Scott Pioli) sue him for damages for anything he says, does or turns over. For instance, if he has said that he has a tape of the Rams walkthrough (or even implied it and not corrected it), and does not and the Pats (or BB or Pioli) have been damaged by that (i.e. loss of reputation, actual economic damages, etc.) they could sue him for things like, libel, slander, negligent or intentional misrepresentation, etc., etc. It could get very expensive for Mr. Walsh, or the NFL, if the Pats decide to go that route. It would also pit Roger Goodell against Bob Kraft. Not a very good scenario for either one.

This could all be taken care of if the Pats were involved and agreed not to push for prosecution of Walsh on anything and not to sue Walsh for whatever he does. However, the Pats don't seem to be involved. They are waiting on the sidelines, it appears. If I were them, when the time was right, I would call Goodell and say if you want us to play ball you agree that no more penalties be handed out no matter what this kid has (which we still think is nothing). Whatever he has is at least six years old and didn't happen on your watch, so let it go. Let him and Specter have their moment in the sun and then we can get back to football.

Goodell doesn't seem that smart, however.

Thank you very much for you really good explanation on the whole situation.

 

[stcjones]

Might never get to hear him at all..which WOULD be the worst for the Pats..the guy wishes to have the league pay for his lawyers..THAT is pure BS..the league should cut off megotiatons...make him pay for it all. I wonfer WHO is paying teh bills here..who put up teh retainer..there is a story here of some Patriot hater who is footing teh bill for it all and THAT story might be quite large..

Disagree....at this point all this posturing and BS that Walsh is doing smacks of Roger Clemens....."I want to tell the truth, the whole truth so help me gawd.....BUT..........ummmm"

IF he (Douche bag Walsh) had something......He SHOULD bring it out now. IF it does NOT have BB on camera saying "Hey great tape Matt.....way to go"......if some video incriminates the Pats.........OR Walsh has audio of BB telling him to go get the walkthrough taped.....Then he LEGALLY has NOTHING! A tape of a walkthrough.......or ANYTHING else that BB did not disclose.....because he obviously was NOT aware of it....or if it was stolen by Douche Bag (Walsh's new name).........and given his horrid history of lying and cheating......HE HAS NO CREDIBILITY!!!!! That combined with the very interesting point that Douche Bag has retained the services of a top WASHINGTON DC LAWYER who is a good friend of Arlene Sphincter....creates a very strong conspiracy theory.....can you say Philly Eagle Homer....and COMCAST ***********?????? Now....the media and A-hole fans of other teams will be crucifying the Pats and BB .....so we will all have to put up with this pile of horsesh## over and over and over again.......but at least the Pats will be exonerated and BB will be our coach......And if we get by all that.....this teams anger against everyone will almost definitely guarantee another great season next year........GO PATS!!! F' Douche Bag (AKA Walsh)

 

[BPF]

IMHO Matt Walsh does not have anything earth shattering, if he did have something we would have known about it already. He stole, took, borrowed, collected, insert your own word some things he was looking to sell on e-bay (maybe he was the one who initially had the 2003 Pat's playbook up for bid) but then this opportunity w/spygate presented itself and he is looking to cash in someway. If he thought what he had was "big" he would have used it to his advantage a long time ago, fired in 2002 and this came up 5-6 yrs later?? Now though he has become a star the world is waiting to hear from because of Goodell, Specter and the media.

 

[Patriotis]

IMHO Matt Walsh does not have anything earth shattering, if he did have something we would have known about it already. He stole, took, borrowed, collected, insert your own word some things he was looking to sell on e-bay (maybe he was the one who initially had the 2003 Pat's playbook up for bid) but then this opportunity w/spygate presented itself and he is looking to cash in someway. If he thought what he had was "big" he would have used it to his advantage a long time ago, fired in 2002 and this came up 5-6 yrs later?? Now though he has become a star the world is waiting to hear from because of Goodell, Specter and the media.

Exactly, I agree. He seems like a packrat collecting things that will one day be of value. I saw a photo on PFT once where he had footballs, helmets, posters, signed photos, etc. all over his room.

 

[pheenix11]

This whole thing is a friggin shell game.

Walsh wants the NFL to pay the damages when the Patriots sue his ass for his bs. The NFL will only agree to cover his damages if they can get the Patriots to agree not to sue. The Patriots are telling Goodell to go piss up a rope. Walsh knows this and knows his bs will never come to light because of this. He just wants the attention and whatever money he can make off it.

Walsh is scum
Goodell is an idiot
Specter is a crooked POS

Geraldo breaking into Al Capone's vault was more productive than this will ever be.

 

[Clonamery]

This whole thing is a friggin shell game.

Walsh wants the NFL to pay the damages when the Patriots sue his ass for his bs. The NFL will only agree to cover his damages if they can get the Patriots to agree not to sue. The Patriots are telling Goodell to go piss up a rope. Walsh knows this and knows his bs will never come to light because of this. He just wants the attention and whatever money he can make off it.

Walsh is scum
Goodell is an idiot
Specter is a crooked POS

Geraldo breaking into Al Capone's vault was more productive than this will ever be.

Lol! Boiled it down so even I can understand it all.....thanks.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Disagree....at this point all this posturing and BS that Walsh is doing smacks of Roger Clemens....."I want to tell the truth, the whole truth so help me gawd.....BUT..........ummmm"

IF he (Douche bag Walsh) had something......He SHOULD bring it out now. IF it does NOT have BB on camera saying "Hey great tape Matt.....way to go"......if some video incriminates the Pats.........OR Walsh has audio of BB telling him to go get the walkthrough taped.....Then he LEGALLY has NOTHING! A tape of a walkthrough.......or ANYTHING else that BB did not disclose.....because he obviously was NOT aware of it....or if it was stolen by Douche Bag (Walsh's new name).........and given his horrid history of lying and cheating......HE HAS NO CREDIBILITY!!!!! That combined with the very interesting point that Douche Bag has retained the services of a top WASHINGTON DC LAWYER who is a good friend of Arlene Sphincter....creates a very strong conspiracy theory.....can you say Philly Eagle Homer....and COMCAST ***********?????? Now....the media and A-hole fans of other teams will be crucifying the Pats and BB .....so we will all have to put up with this pile of horsesh## over and over and over again.......but at least the Pats will be exonerated and BB will be our coach......And if we get by all that.....this teams anger against everyone will almost definitely guarantee another great season next year........GO PATS!!! F' Douche Bag (AKA Walsh)

A "very strong conspiracy theory"? Is it stronger or weaker than the one supporting the notion that Jim Morrison isn't dead but living in the Congo?

I doubt that there is a walkthrough tape, and given the security for that Super Bowl and everything associated with it, I doubt Walsh even has one he made for his own purposes. But maybe, who knows.

I do know the whole damn mess is part of a continuum of behavior by NFL coaches for decades, and the Pats were made an example of. Fine, you get the ticket, you pay the fine. But to extend the traffic ticket "legal" metaphor, if there is no NEW information, you're just subjecting the Pats to double jeopardy. And I doubt very seriously Walsh has NEW information... at least of the true and verifiable variety.

What we need here is Officer Barbrady from South Park, so we can call Shenannigans, and everybody can go get their broom.

PFnV