Value? I got your VALUE right here

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

Did you just start following the Pats last week? Belichick had not one but two perfect opportunities to replace Brady with Bledsoe that year.


Here's a suggestion: stop posting any comments until you have done the following research.

First, ask mom to drive you down to the library and check out David Halberstam's book, it's called The Education of a Coach.

Read it from cover to cover. In your case, three times.


If you need further remedial reading please let me know.

Why don't you just fill me in smart guy.

 

[Patspsycho]

Did you just start following the Pats last week? Belichick had not one but two perfect opportunities to replace Brady with Bledsoe that year.


Here's a suggestion: stop posting any comments until you have done the following research.

First, ask mom to drive you down to the library and check out David Halberstam's book, it's called The Education of a Coach.

Read it from cover to cover. In your case, three times.


If you need further remedial reading please let me know.

 

[Crazy Patriot Guy]

I will obviously be happy and willing to admit I was wrong about this year. If they do win the super bowl this season, it's because they got some type of contribution from the '08-'10 draft classes.

Isn't that what helped them win super bowls in the past?

Wait, you emphasized this year. Are you saying that if the Pats had "done things right," we'd be shooting for our 10th straight Super Bowl this season?

 

[nashvillepatsfan]

The Patriots are the best of all time when it comes to talent evaluation. In fact, it's an art form to them.

- They take Ben Watson in the first round when they just drafted a TE in the first round 2 years prior.
- They take Marquise Hill in the 2nd round (RIP) when they already had 3 DE's who were very young.
- Traded a 3rd round pick for All pro Duane Starks
- Signed all pro Monty Beisel to solve their MLB issues.
- Trade two draft picks for Chad Jackson. Even though the Pats had one of the worst WR core in the NFL, they ask Chad Jackson to go tackle people on special teams in the AFC title game after he just healed from a nagging hamstring the entire season. Then he tears his ACL.
- Their most consitant and best pick in the 2006 draft was a kicker
- Passed on a 6-0, physical cover CB Terrell Thomas for a 5-9 injury prone Terrance Wheatley who just healing a broken wrist.
- Took a QB in the 3rd round Kevin O'Connel to mock the rest of the NFL
- Signed Fernando Bryant and Jason Webster and called it a day in FA. Then they cut them both and sign Deltha O'Neal a couple days before the NFL season and feel they've solved their CB issues.
- Traded a 3rd and a 5th for monster DE/OLB Derrick Burgess

As you can see, the Pats flat out own the NFL when it comes to talent evaluation. I really don't understand how the OP can upset.

:deadhorse:

No offense 'Bro' , but you're quickly becoming the most annoying poster on this board. You don't really want that title, do you? :bricks:

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

Wait, you emphasized this year. Are you saying that if the Pats had "done things right," we'd be shooting for our 10th straight Super Bowl this season?

Dude, I understand you're not going to win every season. Sh*t happens.

However, if the Pats went into the season with the same exact team from '09, do you think they'd win the super bowl?

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

:deadhorse:

No offense 'Bro' , but you're quickly becoming the most annoying poster on this board. You don't really want that title, do you? :bricks:

I think I unfortunately already have that title. I think I might end up as the next NEM.

 

[nashvillepatsfan]

I think I unfortunately already have that title. I think I might end up as the next NEM.

no, you're not there yet.

But seriously, you dont want to end up on everyones ignore list. Then you're posting your opinion on something, and nobody will ever see it. I'm just saying, lately, you've been kind of on the negative side of things. Be a Suzy Sunshine, not a Debbie Downer

 

[Crazy Patriot Guy]

Dude, I understand you're not going to win every season. Sh*t happens.

However, if the Pats went into the season with the same exact team from '09, do you think they'd win the super bowl?

No, but we don't have the same exact team from '09.

Look at the Saints. 7-9 in 2007. 8-8 in 2008. They really didn't make a big splash in free agency last offseason. Jabari Greer, Darren Sharper and Heath Evans. Evans missed half the season and no one expected Sharper to have the kind of year he had when that signing was made. I think of Sharper as closer to a Roman Phifer-type signing than someone that was expected to light it up.

The big difference for them is that it all came together and they got a ton of production from a lot of players they had signed or drafted over the last few seasons. The same players that led them to a 7-9 finish in 2007 and an 8-8 finish in 2008.

Look, I'm not predicting a Super Bowl victory this season. I'm not saying it's impossible either. I just think it's too easy to rip on the decisions the team has made in recent years just because they haven't won. Again, what good had all those players been for the Saints until last season?

 

[Coach42]

I think the thing that bothers me about people complaining about the way the Patriots acquire players are as follows.

1.) There is absolutely no patience for players developing a.k.a if you don't produce immediately you are a bust see "Ron Brace is a bust" thread.

2.) Shoulda, coulda, woulda, with ZERO context. The Pats shoulda stayed put and drafted Clay Matthews! That trade ended up netting us Darius Butler, Ron Brace, Julian Edleman, and 97% of Rob Gronkowski (stole that from PatChick).

3.)Belichick has lost his touch/Why does everyone think you can't disagree with Belichick. This is not true. Most reasonable people have/do/will disagree with decisions he has made, the difference is that reasonable people understand that talent evaluation is a crap shoot at best. While Belichick might not be the best front office man, he is one of the top five or so in the NFL, and stripping him of his FO duties would certainly chase him away. So, you'll have to make do with a top 5 FO, the best coach in the league, and a team that hasn't had a losing season in a decade. I'm sorry I know you could do better.

4.) I love that the franchise has been able to turn around the preception of the team here so drastically that every season that does not produce a Superbowl is a failure but don't forget where you came from. I guess if you started watching this team in 94 than what I'm saying doesn't make sense but winning in the NFL is f@#$%# HARD. Teams are so evenly matched these days that the margin for winning and losing is smaller than its ever been and all the Pats do is win. What is there to REALLY complain about?

Anyway had to get that off my chest.

 

[BradyFTW!]

They moved up 2 spots last season to get Gronkowski. Two spots might not be much but they did get their guy.

IIRC, they traded up for Ron Brace in 2009, but I'm not 100% positive of that.

 

[BradyFTW!]

:deadhorse:

No offense 'Bro' , but you're quickly becoming the most annoying poster on this board. You don't really want that title, do you? :bricks:

This board has an ignore function. I'm been wearing it out, personally... just sayin

 

[Patjew]

I think I unfortunately already have that title. I think I might end up as the next NEM.

Then stop it. I don't want to see you universally ignored or banned.

 

[Calciumee]

Good to see the optimism is still on going

 

[nashvillepatsfan]

This board has an ignore function. I'm been wearing it out, personally... just sayin

Im aware of the ignore function. I'm simply telling (warning) someone that they're headed to everyones ignore list. It doesnt make sense to post if you know nobody is reading it. So it is better to post an opinion once or twice. Not post the same negative crap over and over again, and end up being on everyones 'ignore' list, or worse, become the next nem

As long as i'm venting; It would also be a good thing if certain posters would stop taking over threads by arguing for 10 pages about who is right. Agree to disagree

 

[nashvillepatsfan]

Good to see the optimism is still on going

what optimism? The media just told me Moss is unhappy, along with Brady, and Mankins.........the sky is falling

 

[Calciumee]

what optimism? The media just told me Moss is unhappy, along with Brady, and Mankins.........the sky is falling

And don't forget that the media is also telling us the Jets are the greatest team EVER!!!

 

[Brady2Welker]

Out of the many things in this post I'd like to address, I'll pick one.


Fact: The draft isn't an exact science.

You cannot do anything more than have a general estimate of what a human being is capable of, there's so many factors (work ethic, intelligence, frame size to build up decent muscle, natural talent etc) that limits a players ability to adjust to the pros. Anyone who tells you otherwise needs to give me what they're smoking.


So the Patriots choose to select many lotto tickets, instead of several ones with a marginally better chance to succeed. That's their prerogative. If you have a problem with this philosophy, that's all well and dandy but pissing and moaning won't change ****. Fact of the matter is Belichick has a certain mindset that has won him 3 SB rings, he probably wont up and change it. I'm not saying that he can do no wrong, just I wouldn't expect a massive change anytime soon.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Even though the original poster seems to think this is black and white, he does raise a good point. Why don't the Patriots continue to do what works best for them? Sure, the value argument makes sense on paper, but in reality, look at our first round picks in the BB era through '08.

Richard Seymour
Daniel Graham
Ty Warren
Vince Wilfork
Benjamin Watson
Logan Mankins
Laurence Maroney
Brandon Meriweather
Jerod Mayo

When Laurence Maroney is the worst of 9 players, that's pretty damn good, considering he is an average NFL running back who has had some injuries. All of these other guys (with the possible exception of Watson) have contributed to the team's success and earned numerous honors.

When you look at the later rounds of the draft, the Patriots, like any other team, have had their share of hits, but also have tons of misses. I'm not talking about guys who didn't become stars; I'm talking about guys they've just whiffed on. For the sake of making this simple, let's look at the 2nd and 3rd round, which are usually the picks they trade for when sacrificing their position in the 1st round.

Adrian Klemm
J.R. Redmond
Matt Light
Deion Branch
Eugene Wilson
Bethel Johnson
Marquise Hill
Ellis Hobbs
Nick Kaczur
Chad Jackson
David Thomas
Terrence Wheatley
Shawn Crable
Kevin O'Connell

The '09 and '10 drafts may prove to be more valuable, but virtually all of these players were deemed "steals" at the time they were drafted. Of these 14 players, Light and Branch are the only ones whose talent and accolades could be considered worthy of the actual "steal" designation. Meanwhile, O'Connell, Crable, Wheatley, Thomas, Jackson, and Johnson barely saw a snap with the team.

The fact the Patriots have had so much success in the first round makes me wonder why they are so eager trade down.

It's always bad when the analysts praise the Patriots for a great draft, saying they made the "smart" decision. In recent years, the media has gotten out of control, proclaiming Belichick the king of every draft, when in fact these were some of the worst picks of any team in the league. Hopefully Vollmer will continue to prove to be a true "first-round value" who dropped into the second round, but until that happens, the last player they've drafted who fits that bill was Deion Branch eight years ago. Yes, eight.

 

[DarrylS]

Belichick has put together 9 winning seasons.. that is highly respected. Bill Belichick has brought us 3 superbowls... many doomsdayers are saying we will have a bad season prior to the first kick off... personally favor a wait and see approach, there are enough Felgers, Borges's and Sarandis of the world to provide the naysaying approach...

All of this is anecdotal evidence, if you compared it to the top ten teams then it would mean something, but in reality the draft is a crap shoot... every team has some hits and some misses.. they hit a bad spell in '06, but the past couple of years seem to have recovered nicely.

I am a half full type of guy, and believe that this team will be very good...

 

[folamzz]

Is the O.P. a dupe account that's just screwing with us?

This is my problem with this board. It's full of BB and Kraft homers. How dare u speak ill of the great BB. Didn't BB get fired in cleveland? Didn't he make the wrong decision on the 4th and 2 call? Didn't he refuse to kick a 48 yard field goal in Sb 42? instead he went for it on 4th and 13. However, some on here say we should never criticize him. Bobby Bowden was just infallible a couple of years at florida St, but was forced out last year.

I hate the whole trade down stuff. You have a better chancing of finding elite talent at the top of the draft than in later rounds. Yes you can find gem in late rounds, but that is a more difficult way to build a team.