Two Rookie Linebackers Is Enough

[Box_O_Rocks]

:agree: I still see Guyton as a developmental guy because his speed didn't translate to results at Tech as much as you would hope. In his defense, the Tech defense wasn't overly impressive.

Guyton could be a guy that just clicks immediately with a defense/scheme/coaches/teammates and his physical skills fill a niche on the field nicely. Probably too much to hope for but I'm a glass-half-full kind of guy.

I'm hopeful that Guyton makes the 53 and Redd somehow stays with the Pats...but I agree with you that the more potential Redd shows in preseason games, the less likely he makes it through waivers.

I'm on record somewhere around here saying I think Guyton "could" be starting by the end of the season if he works hard enough. Big "if," but to date the kid has stepped up and succeeded.
- He went into the Ravens' game on defense last Thursday with over 6 minutes left in the "First" Quarter; BB has done that with 1st round picks, UDFAs not so much.
- He played deep into the Third Quarter alongside Mayo and Alexander, then platooned with Hobson for the rest of the game. BB took a good long look at the kid, first by sending him in with the 2's, then by working him for the equivalent of 3 full quarters. Reiss reported he took 2nd string reps in practice yesterday - I don't think his performance Thursday hurt his stock.

What I saw:
- He was disciplined and played "his" assignments.
- He did not appear to get out of position (I hedge my bets because it was a TV broadcast with their poor perspective).
- He showed good awareness of the situation, the ball, and his teammates.
- When he kicked in the jets, he made things happen, but he stayed in control too.
- He's still lacks enough lead in his shorts to anchor against OL consistently, but he never stopped fighting to get off the block and into the play.
- He was Gary 'Hustle' on Special Teams (Charlie's nephew I believe).
- He made plays, not always made the tackle, but he made plays that set up his teammates for success.
- He was consistent from when he first went in until his last snap.

I'd go so far as to say he was more impressive than Mayo, perhaps not more talented, but more impressive. :singing:

 

[patchick]

I think that the notion that it takes experience to play LB for the Patriots came from BB himself -- not his words, but his actions. He went year after year without drafting a LB of consequence. His splashiest, costliest FA moves were at LB (Colvin, Thomas). He started Junior Seau, 2 years post retirement. Any reasonable fan would look at that evidence and conclude that BB sees the linebacker job in his defense as a savvy vet's job.

Then this year he drafts two LBs in the first 3 rounds, and one of them is already running with the first team. Go figure.

Maybe fans were misreading the situation, or maybe BB's own approach is evolving. Or maybe Mayo is simply exceptional. Who knows?

 

[Richter]

Maybe fans were misreading the situation, or maybe BB's own approach is evolving. Or maybe Mayo is simply exceptional. Who knows?

I'm going to go with the last option there. The Patriots don't blow first round picks, and picking 7th (and moving down to 10th) in the draft, they're going to get someone exceptional in all likelihood. Considering what we've heard and seen of Mayo thus far (especially his work ethic, the early morning film sessions, running with the first team in training camp), he seems like one of those special players that ends up becoming a star right away. In general, I'm sure it falls somewhere in the middle - you need to be good to play linebacker for Belichick, and experience is a big edge in playing well, so he'll tend towards those guys. But I don't think Belichick is the kind of guy who sticks to one philosophy about a player or position, save this one - he plays the best guy available. If that's rookie or a 15 year veteran, so be it. It just tends to be easier for the latter.

 

[Pats726]

I'm on record somewhere around here saying I think Guyton "could" be starting by the end of the season if he works hard enough. Big "if," but to date the kid has stepped up and succeeded.
- He went into the Ravens' game on defense last Thursday with over 6 minutes left in the "First" Quarter; BB has done that with 1st round picks, UDFAs not so much.
- He played deep into the Third Quarter alongside Mayo and Alexander, then platooned with Hobson for the rest of the game. BB took a good long look at the kid, first by sending him in with the 2's, then by working him for the equivalent of 3 full quarters. Reiss reported he took 2nd string reps in practice yesterday - I don't think his performance Thursday hurt his stock.

What I saw:
- He was disciplined and played "his" assignments.
- He did not appear to get out of position (I hedge my bets because it was a TV broadcast with their poor perspective).
- He showed good awareness of the situation, the ball, and his teammates.
- When he kicked in the jets, he made things happen, but he stayed in control too.
- He's still lacks enough lead in his shorts to anchor against OL consistently, but he never stopped fighting to get off the block and into the play.
- He was Gary 'Hustle' on Special Teams (Charlie's nephew I believe).
- He made plays, not always made the tackle, but he made plays that set up his teammates for success.
- He was consistent from when he first went in until his last snap.

I'd go so far as to say he was more impressive than Mayo, perhaps not more talented, but more impressive. :singing:

I also liked Guyton..but where does that translate to as a position..the third ILB behind Bruschi and Mayo?? Ahead of Hobson and Alexander? Would that not be a bit thin with 2 rooks and an aging vet?? (Sure Thomas or Vrabel could be an ILB..but??) Would he replace Izzo on ST?? I'm wanting to keep him on the 53..but having a hard time,,yes,,it's good to see a player develop..but when a team depends on rooks...sometimes you get burned.. I really think this might be very hard for the team..and I don't think it's so simple..

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I also liked Guyton..but where does that translate to as a position..the third ILB behind Bruschi and Mayo?? Ahead of Hobson and Alexander? Would that not be a bit thin with 2 rooks and an aging vet?? (Sure Thomas or Vrabel could be an ILB..but??) Would he replace Izzo on ST?? I'm wanting to keep him on the 53..but having a hard time,,yes,,it's good to see a player develop..but when a team depends on rooks...sometimes you get burned.. I really think this might be very hard for the team..and I don't think it's so simple..

Based on game one of the preseason and practice reports - Guyton is the better player at ILB over Hobson and Alexander. Based on rewatching that first game with slow-mo replays off the DVR, Guyton was by far the better player. As of today, I list Guyton as the #3 ILB on the depth chart. If you asked me to put together a 53 man roster today:

LB: Vrabel, Bruschi, A.Thomas, Mayo, Woods, Guyton, Crable, Alexander, Izzo.

I keep Alexander as an emergency 4th ILB until Seau can be flown in - though on the fly BB would probably reshuffle Adalius or Vrabes inside. The back 5 can all be on STs, Crable would be my first LB choice for game day inactive.

That's today Stan, tomorrow who knows?

 

[Pats726]

Based on game one of the preseason and practice reports - Guyton is the better player at ILB over Hobson and Alexander. Based on rewatching that first game with slow-mo replays off the DVR, Guyton was by far the better player. As of today, I list Guyton as the #3 ILB on the depth chart. If you asked me to put together a 53 man roster today:

LB: Vrabel, Bruschi, A.Thomas, Mayo, Woods, Guyton, Crable, Alexander, Izzo.

I keep Alexander as an emergency 4th ILB until Seau can be flown in - though on the fly BB would probably reshuffle Adalius or Vrabes inside. The back 5 can all be on STs, Crable would be my first LB choice for game day inactive.

That's today Stan, tomorrow who knows?

That makes a lot of sense at this point...so it's a Guyton in Hobson out situation..Did you study Hobson as much as Guyton? was he that much worse?? I think with Guyton, Mayo and Crable, consistency from game to game is so important. especially with all jinds of situations and offenses. Having Seau a vall away helps a lot..Ball in Hobson's court...he needs to do something quickly.
Having Alexander and Izzo makes ST strong.

 

[14thDragon]

I also liked Guyton, but where does that translate to as a position; the third ILB behind Bruschi and Mayo? Ahead of Hobson and Alexander? Would that not be a bit thin with 2 rooks and an aging vet? (Sure Thomas or Vrabel could be an ILB, but?) Would he replace Izzo on ST? I'm wanting to keep him on the 53..but having a hard time. Yes, it's good to see a player develop, but when a team depends on rooks, sometimes you get burned. I really think this might be very hard for the team and I don't think it's so simple.

Yeah, but when you rely on innefective vets you get torched so it is a d@mn*d if you do d@mn*d if you don't. The play on the field is what needs to determine the final shake out. I am gonna discount pretty much everything else and leave it to the play of the players.

LB: Vrabel, Bruschi, A.Thomas, Mayo, Woods, Guyton, Crable, Alexander, Izzo.

I keep Alexander as an emergency 4th ILB until Seau can be flown in - though on the fly BB would probably reshuffle Adalius or Vrabes inside. The back 5 can all be on STs, Crable would be my first LB choice for game day inactive.

That is not bad. Based on one game and TC reports. Personally I am only keeping Alexander or Izzo, not both. I would keep Hobson over Alexander and let the fact he did start for a season give him the nod. If Redd impresses in a couple more games, then I might go really thin at ILB and let Izzo or Hobson go.

 

[tombonneau]

Yeah, but when you rely on innefective vets you get torched so it is a d@mn*d if you do d@mn*d if you don't. The play on the field is what needs to determine the final shake out. I am gonna discount pretty much everything else and leave it to the play of the players.



That is not bad. Based on one game and TC reports. Personally I am only keeping Alexander or Izzo, not both. I would keep Hobson over Alexander and let the fact he did start for a season give him the nod. If Redd impresses in a couple more games, then I might go really thin at ILB and let Izzo or Hobson go.

I'd opt Hobson over Alexander as well. While he might not be cutting it at ILB, he did start all last year as a 3-4 OLB so he has some valuable experience there as a backup in case there is an ILB injury and AD or Vrabel have to shift inside.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

That makes a lot of sense at this point...so it's a Guyton in Hobson out situation..Did you study Hobson as much as Guyton? was he that much worse?? I think with Guyton, Mayo and Crable, consistency from game to game is so important. especially with all jinds of situations and offenses. Having Seau a vall away helps a lot..Ball in Hobson's court...he needs to do something quickly.
Having Alexander and Izzo makes ST strong.

I did not study Hobson as much as I did Guyton because he did not go in until late in the third quarter and then platooned with Guyton - less reps, less film. While he was in, working against the back of the Ravens roster, he did not stand out.

Yes, Tampa Bay is another test for Guyton and Hobson. I'll re-evaluate once I've digested the film (assuming I don't close on my new home, then your on your own!).

I don't consider Seau to be available yet, not as long as he's recovering from his surgeries.

Alexander and Izzo were based more on Special Teams' needs than any other consideration, but Alexander can do some good as an emergency ILB.

 

[patchick]

Everybody pause for a moment and imagine that the Pats had drafted Guyton -- say in the 5th round, which wouldn't have been unreasonable. Then consider his performance in camp and preseason to date. Wouldn't he be considered a virtual roster lock? So toss out the UDFA status as ancient history, and it looks like we've got a nice prospect. (Also, assuming Lynch does indeed sign as a coverage ILB/SS, that extra veteran presence could make it easier to give Guyton Alexander's old job.)

 

[Pats726]

Yeah, but when you rely on innefective vets you get torched so it is a d@mn*d if you do d@mn*d if you don't. The play on the field is what needs to determine the final shake out. I am gonna discount pretty much everything else and leave it to the play of the players. .

That is true in a way...if the team thinks Hobson is REALLY running behind and not getting it..then certainly he could be cut..If they have Guyton..Alexander (and Vrabel..AD moving inside..) I think they could be OK for a game..Seau back quick..If they really believe that Mayo and Guyton could be the future ILBs..then they will find a way to keep him. The next 3 games are really big for both Hobson and Guyton...As I've said before..I think with Redd, they will have to hope he makes it through waivers.

That is not bad. Based on one game and TC reports. Personally I am only keeping Alexander or Izzo, not both. I would keep Hobson over Alexander and let the fact he did start for a season give him the nod. If Redd impresses in a couple more games, then I might go really thin at ILB and let Izzo or Hobson go.

Why would you keep Hobson over Alexander? If you think Guyton is better why keep him as he's not as good as Alexander on special teams?? Cutting Alexander, Hobson and Izzo not only makes the ILB position incredibly weak, but it also weakens special teams considerably. If that was done I would hope Seau would be added ASAP.

 

[14thDragon]

That is true in a way, if the team thinks Hobson is REALLY running behind and not getting it then certainly he could be cut. If they have; Guyton, Alexander (and Vrabel AD moving inside.) I think they could be OK for a game. Seau back quick. If they really believe that Mayo and Guyton could be the future ILBs, then they will find a way to keep him. The next 3 games are really big for both Hobson and Guyton...As I've said before..I think with Redd, they will have to hope he makes it through waivers.

Perhaps. But It depends on how good Redd looks on defense in special teams, if his value is greater and special teams skills adequate then I would let Hobson go and take my chances on the inside with Guyton.

Why would you keep Hobson over Alexander? If you think Guyton is better why keep him as he's not as good as Alexander on special teams? Cutting Alexander, Hobson and Izzo not only makes the ILB position incredibly weak, but it also weakens special teams considerably. If that was done I would hope Seau would be added ASAP.

Well I would only be keeping one, Alexander or Izzo, not both. I only have 1 slot open for a special teams only linebacker. 7 spots, three outside, (AD, Vrable, Woods) three inside (Bruschi, Mayo, Guyton) and one special teamer (Izzo??). Crable and and Hobson would act as game day inactive depth. As I said, that could change if Redd looks good, then Hobson could be gone. Or if Guyton continues to show up on special teams, then I would cut Izzo and take my chances on special teams.

Tough cuts. But I am a gambler.

 

[sebman2112]

I'd be happy to upgrade by bringing in Seau or another veteran, but I don't think we need more youth. I expect we'll add another rookie or two next year. For now, we have solid 9 man squad, all with their roles.

Vrabel, Thomas, Woods, Crable
Bruschi, Mayo, Hobson, Alexander
Izzo (Special teams only)

I believe that Redd, Ruud and Guyton are competing for Practice Squad jobs.

Honestly, I don't think Alexander provides anything special to the team. Sure, he's shown up on special teams, but I believe Guyton will be even better, and has more upside on defense.

 

[mgteich]

If Guyton shows that he is better than Alexander on ST's, then he will make the team. I just don't think that will happen.

Honestly, I don't think Alexander provides anything special to the team. Sure, he's shown up on special teams, but I believe Guyton will be even better, and has more upside on defense.

 

[BPF]

I noticed this as well. Definitely bodes well for Guyton. Will be watching for him on Sunday ...

More of Guyton, from today, this time even more impressive. Lining up w/the top unit next to Lonie Paxton per Reiss.

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/reiss_pieces/2008/08/observations_fr_14.html

4) Keeping an eye on rookie free agent Gary Guyton. The Patriots spent a significant part of practice working on punt coverage, and it was notable that rookie free agent Gary Guyton was lined up next to long snapper Lonie Paxton with the top group. If Guyton is going to make the Patriots’ 53-man roster, he’ll have to first make his mark on special teams. His hustle tackle of Yamon Figurs in last Thursday’s preseason opener appears to have created more opportunity for him; now it will be interesting to see what he does with it.

 

[Ring 6]

I'd be happy to upgrade by bringing in Seau or another veteran, but I don't think we need more youth. I expect we'll add another rookie or two next year. For now, we have solid 9 man squad, all with their roles.

Vrabel, Thomas, Woods, Crable
Bruschi, Mayo, Hobson, Alexander
Izzo (Special teams only)

I believe that Redd, Ruud and Guyton are competing for Practice Squad jobs.

Maybe you could argue 'best' but this is going to definitely be the deepest LB we have had.
I agree with the way its stacked up above, although I think that Alexander is far from safe.

IMO, assuming Vrabel does not decline, with AD outside, we will have the best OLB play we have ever had. (assuming they are healthy) We have never had a strong 3rd OLB except for the partial season that Vrabel, McG and Colvin were all healthy, and Woods seems to be as good as whatever we have had there.
Hobson is a solid 5th LB who has been a good quality starter. If you aren't sure on Woods as the 3rd OLB, Hobson can be effective there too. With ADs position flexibility Hobson is potentially the backup for all 4 spots, in one way or another.
I know Bruschi is getting killed by a lot of fans, but considering we use 2 ILBs on maybe 50% if not fewer of the downs, I don't see where we'v been much stronger at the ILB spot either, and Hobson may be as good a #3 ILB as we have had.
Anything Crable could contribute just adds to it.

The young guys going to the practice squad is good preperation for the coming transition as the studs age.

 

[ALP]

i would risk weakening the ST by one or two guys, if it provided the team with the opportunity of keeping more of these rookie LB prospects which could turn out to be starting caliber LB's in our system...

something we havnt seen for a VERY long time

 

[mgteich]

If these LB were projected future starters, everyone would agree. But then, if that were so, they would have been Day One draft picks.

We haven't seen what in a VERY long time? Young binkie UDFA's? Where do you think Woods and Alexander came from? And all the rest that have made the various squads? As I recall Mays was going to be a starter by now. I agree that we haven't seen two top young LB prospects on the patriots for a very long time, and this year we have them: Mayo and Crable. It is NOT Redd and Guyton who are any different that any other year. No one is going to keep them from our Practice Squad.

i would risk weakening the ST by one or two guys, if it provided the team with the opportunity of keeping more of these rookie LB prospects which could turn out to be starting caliber LB's in our system...

something we havnt seen for a VERY long time

 

[patchick]

If Guyton shows that he is better than Alexander on ST's, then he will make the team. I just don't think that will happen.

As much as you want to put the best team on the field, you can't ignore the fact that Alexander is gone after this season while you have Guyton for 3 more years dirt cheap. I don't think Guyton has to show he's better, just within hollering distance.

 

[BPF]

If these LB were projected future starters, everyone would agree. But then, if that were so, they would have been Day One draft picks.

We haven't seen what in a VERY long time? Young binkie UDFA's? Where do you think Woods and Alexander came from? And all the rest that have made the various squads? As I recall Mays was going to be a starter by now. I agree that we haven't seen two top young LB prospects on the patriots for a very long time, and this year we have them: Mayo and Crable. It is NOT Redd and Guyton who are any different that any other year. No one is going to keep them from our Practice Squad.

I guess then we should give up on this Tom Brady kid, he wasn't a day one pick Seriously, where a player is drafted is irrelevant-what he makes of his opportunity is a lot more relevant. Wasn't that Vinatieri kid undrafted, whatever happened to him I wonder?? To further illustrate my point about it being irrelevant whether a player is drafted or where he is drafted check this article out on last year's playoffs: http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story...0d5d805e2fdc&template=with-video&confirm=true

As New York Jets general manager Mike Tannenbaum watched the NFL playoffs last weekend, he realized they were an infomercial for undrafted free agents. But even he didn’t comprehend exactly how much.

When the playoffs kicked off, the 12 playoff teams had 167 undrafted free agents on their roster.

In this weekend’s divisional playoffs, the eight teams have 106 undrafted free agents on their roster.