Two players that nobody are talking about

[Mogamedogz]

Jamie Collins
Chandler Jones


Bill has managed to do it yet again. Simply the best that's ever done it.

Enjoy it my friends, for we will never see greatness the likes of this again.

 

[Deus Irae]

Jamie Collins was shipped to the woeful Browns.
Chandler Jones is who he is. He's missed when it comes to pressuring the QB, but he was always overrated by many here at Patsfans.com


It's been gone over a bunch of times. What's left to say at this point?

 

[Mogamedogz]

Jamie Collins was shipped to the woeful Browns.
Chandler Jones is who he is. He's missed when it comes to pressuring the QB, but he was always overrated by many here at Patsfans.com


It's been gone over a bunch of times. What's left to say at this point?

I guess just the way the defense has (IMO) come together and improved progressively since the Collins trade. In the imediate aftermath there seemed to be some confusion and uncertainty amongst the team, but the way it all came together for them long term, I think is both noticeable and yet another testament to how far ahead Bill is when it comes to team composition. That's all.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

At the end of the day, if bb has a piece of the engine not working to full capacity or distracting other parts,he has no problem replacing it, even if replacing it causes a temporary stall. Eventually he knows he did the right thing and the engine will purr again soon enough.

Now he just needs to keep everybody healthy for four more games and we should be hoisting trophy #5.

 

[fnordcircle]

Nobody's talking about them because us chill types are comfortable rationalizing everything BB does as 'welp, I guess he knows better' and the uptight know-it-all types aren't in the habit of pointing out how wrong they were.

 

[Deus Irae]

I guess just the way the defense has (IMO) come together and improved progressively since the Collins trade. In the imediate aftermath there seemed to be some confusion and uncertainty amongst the team, but the way it all came together for them long term, I think is both noticeable and yet another testament to how far ahead Bill is when it comes to team composition. That's all.

OK but, on the other hand, he also chose Jones and Collins in the first place. It's a testament to his willingness to cut his losses on those players, no question, but I don't know how much further I'd read into it beyond that.

 

[Mogamedogz]

OK but, on the other hand, he also chose Jones and Collins in the first place. It's a testament to his willingness to cut his losses on those players, no question, but I don't know how much further I'd read into it beyond that.

Right, but it's the same end game. And I feel like he hasn't gotten a fair amount of credit on the back end, to balance out the criticism he took (not just here) but in the media when he initially made the decision to move on from them.

It's just something I personally feel like he hasn't gotten enough credit for on the backend, with how much better the defense has come together as a unit as the season progressed.

It's not a **** measuring contest over who foreseen this happening. Just an acknowledgement of his long game mastery.

The fact that we not only don't miss two of the better players on our defense from last year, but we have actually evolved into a better unit without them, I feel deserves mentioning; considering how much they seem to improve with each passing week.

If some of you expected it to work out this well, Hats off. But typically, losing two of what most would have considered to be our most talented players on defense and actually improving as a result is something that I think deserves more credit than it's been given.

That's all.

 

[rookBoston]

Cut his losses? I think you have it wrong.

Collins and Jones are legit players in the NFL and would be solid contributors to any team. If there were no cap, I think BB would probably have preferred to keep them both. Luckily (for us as Pats fans) there is a cap, and our GM has singularly mastered how to manage it.

With the Pats, players are well coached, surrounded by quality teammates, and positioned to succeed. If Jamie Collins seems to be struggling to perform in Cleveland, realize it is Cleveland.

What we're seeing with Van Noy filling for Collins isn't proof that Collins was overrated all along...it's more analogous to the coaching staff preparing Brissett on a short week to step in and fill for Garropolo.

Good players leave here and become mediocre elsewhere all the time--Deon Branch, Patrick Chung, Green-Ellis. And mediocre players come here and become studs--Wes Welker, Rob Ninkovich, Mike Vrabel, Chris Hogan.

Not a knock on those players. Just part of the local genius.

 

[Deus Irae]

Right, but it's the same end game. And I feel like he hasn't gotten a fair amount of credit on the back end, to balance out the criticism he took (not just here) but in the media when he initially made the decision to move on from them.

It's just something I personally feel like he hasn't gotten enough credit for on the backend, with how much better the defense has come together as a unit as the season progressed.

It's not a **** measuring contest over who foreseen this happening. Just an acknowledgement of his long game mastery.

The fact that we not only don't miss two of the better players on our defense from last year, but we have actually evolved into a better unit without them, I feel deserves mentioning; considering how much they seem to improve with each passing week.

If some of you expected it to work out this well, Hats off. But typically, losing two of what most would have considered to be our most talented players on defense and actually improving as a result is something that I think deserves more credit than it's been given.

That's all.

I don't think it's an accurate characterization to say that those players aren't missed. I do think that BB has frequently shown an ability to get through the regular season with defenses that are less than brilliant (2011 stands out, but it's not alone), and he's doing that again. How much of that is BB/Patricia, how much is the offense covering for the defense, how much is the weak schedule this year, how much is the lineup of garbage QBs they've faced this year, and the like, is something we can't really quantify.

As for balancing out the criticism, come on. This site's homer central. It's actually good for the place when something comes up that leads to legitimate "WTF" reactions even among the sunshine crew, because it shakes the place up a little, even if it doesn't last long.

Anyhow, insomnia or not, I've got to try getting some sleep. Merry Christmas/Happy Chanukah and God bless!

 

[wolverinejoe80]

we don't overpay for players. that's what we do. it's nothing new.

 

[AtomicDawg]

Who are these people you refer to?

 

[BritPat]

Hopefully the guy we pick with the Browns 3rd rounder will have the same impact as Thuney or Mitchell.

 

[DarrylS]

When Jones was traded to Az. this board exploded with predictions of gloom and doom..

When Collins was traded to Cleveland, pretty much the same thing happened..

Then there were a bunch of threads asking if BB was too old and if the game had "passed him by"??... It made great talk show banter and inflamed this board..

How did those choices work out for this team?? As we are so close to this team we often do not see the absolute brilliance of BB and his brain trust.. who would have thunk?? 15.7 points average scored against the Pats..

 

[farn]

The Jones trade was impressive in the fact that it was much more than a salary dump. The return of Thuney (almost every play of the year) & MM (emerging good-hands receiver) + $ considerations has far exceeded my expectations.

When that 2nd rounder became a 3&4 I was skeptical the return would be substantial. Glad to be wrong.

Surely someone will come on here to prove differently, but it seems that Post-Pioli choices have been solid. Not to dismiss early Pioli era picks, but during his few last years, there were leaner years... maybe Caserio needs props here as well.

 

[shmessy]

As for balancing out the criticism, come on. This site's homer central. It's actually good for the place when something comes up that leads to legitimate "WTF" reactions even among the sunshine crew, because it shakes the place up a little, even if it doesn't last long.

Have you noticed the name of the website?

 

[PatriotsPimp136]

Those guy's are still solid players. The pass rush's what it is. I still wouldn't considered it great. This secondary will have to do it's job come the playoffs.

 

[Mogamedogz]

When Jones was traded to Az. this board exploded with predictions of gloom and doom..

When Collins was traded to Cleveland, pretty much the same thing happened..

Then there were a bunch of threads asking if BB was too old and if the game had "passed him by"??... It made great talk show banter and inflamed this board..

How did those choices work out for this team?? As we are so close to this team we often do not see the absolute brilliance of BB and his brain trust.. who would have thunk?? 15.7 points average scored against the Pats..

You summed up my point perfectly.

I was hammered last night when I wrote it and was STRUGGLING to articulate my drunken thought bubble.

 

[patfanken]

I'm surprised no one has talked about this scenario. While it is VERY very unlikely, there is a cihance that both players could return to the Pats as FA's. I think that while Jones has had a very solid year for the Cards and is likely to be resigned, he certainly can't be looked at as an elite pass rusher and thus perhaps his price could become more reasonable. Given the choice, I rather pay him than Jabal Sheard.

Collins is even more problematic since he left more because of attitude reasons than actual physical ability. He could be the impact player we all hoped he'd become as we saw in the Houston game, but for some reason, he chose not to be in most of the rest of the games. All this being said, even though its even more remote of a chance that Jone, he WILL be a FA come March anf open to all 32 teams to sign.

Now wouldn't that be the ultimate coup for BB. He trades 2 important young guys, getx Mitchell, Tuney, and a 3rd rounder and then get BOTH guys back the next season. I'd love it, if only just to hear the conspiracy mavens have their heads explode.

 

[Gronkowski123]

the hoodie strikes once again!!

 

[scout]

Cut his losses? I think you have it wrong.

Collins and Jones are legit players in the NFL and would be solid contributors to any team. If there were no cap, I think BB would probably have preferred to keep them both. Luckily (for us as Pats fans) there is a cap, and our GM has singularly mastered how to manage it.

With the Pats, players are well coached, surrounded by quality teammates, and positioned to succeed. If Jamie Collins seems to be struggling to perform in Cleveland, realize it is Cleveland.

What we're seeing with Van Noy filling for Collins isn't proof that Collins was overrated all along...it's more analogous to the coaching staff preparing Brissett on a short week to step in and fill for Garropolo.

Good players leave here and become mediocre elsewhere all the time--Deon Branch, Patrick Chung, Green-Ellis. And mediocre players come here and become studs--Wes Welker, Rob Ninkovich, Mike Vrabel, Chris Hogan.

Not a knock on those players. Just part of the local genius.

Actually, we don't know what BB would do if there wasn't a salary cap. I assume he wouldn't stockpile players, but would continue to make the team better. Collins would be jettisoned in either scenario. In Minnesota , the defensive back decided to use his own game plan. Now, we see if Zimmer is on the same page, or even the same chapter as BB.