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Trying to understand the 'Garbage Time' phenomenon

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by PATRIOTSFANINPA, Dec 5, 2011.

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  1. PATRIOTSFANINPA

    PATRIOTSFANINPA Pro Bowl Player

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    Quite often in here people refer to the Pats opponent racking up yardage and stats in 'Garbage Time' as Meh,no big deal.

    Why is garbage time stuff acceptable to the average fan?,Doesn't the average fan want the team to keep focus and play the full 60 minutes?,is there a reason to just totally let down the guard and let the other team slip in a little closer?,I find it concerning when the team does not go full throttle and keep the other team from doing anything that it didn't do for 3 quarters.

    Is it maybe some of the guys getting tired or is it just not mentally focused?,that concerns me down the stretch when playing the next 4 teams that are not exactly world beaters.

    In just today's games involving playoff contenders,Pittsburgh kept the pedal to the metal against Cincy and won going away,Baltimore built a lead and crushed down the Browns,The 49ers kept on getting farther and farther ahead of the Rams and didn't let up and shut them out.....I would like to see the same here on both offense and defense and not give the other team a glimmer of hope.

    No reason why a score like the 45-3 drubbing of the Jets last year should not occur often when the team is in position to do so unless someone is not playing hard late in the game.

    I just think that a good team,a team that is worthy of making it to the playoffs in hope of a Super Bowl title would be certain as well paid pros to not let up,good teams ram it down the opponents throat and don't take the foot off the gas.

    To win a playoff game against a MUCH better team than the Colts,this team if having a decent sized lead,better keep going until the gun sounds...I hope Belichick rams this down the guys throats in team meetings this week.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2011
  2. supafly

    supafly PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Until they can run the ball effectively, and continue to make progress on defense (that progress was halted today..obviously), I don't know what to think.

    Yes, I agree that about the garbage time topic, but I don't know if it ultimately matters in the big picture or not?

    The fear I have is just not playing good pass coverage, and not being able to run the ball well enough to close out games.
     
  3. PATRIOTSFANINPA

    PATRIOTSFANINPA Pro Bowl Player

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    What another concerning thing was that IIAC,the Colts were the 31st ranked defense against the run.....Our RBs ran poorly today and I don't quite understand why...maybe the team missed the blocking efforts of Wendall and Connolly up the middle?,Maybe McDonald is not a great run blocker?
     
  4. randomk1

    randomk1 In the Starting Line-Up

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    No such thing as garbage time. Look at the giants vs philly last year.

    Maybe it's that we're just not that good? Our O had what...two three and outs in a row and the D gave up drives of 80+ yards in a row like it was nothing and that was supposedly our #1 CB getting beaten out there.

    Oh well...i'll take the W and onto next week. We need to get healthy and start having some sort of a regular unit out there. There are like 2-3 new faces on D every week.
     
  5. MP-Logick

    MP-Logick Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    They stopped playing as hard when they were up 31-3 in the 4th quarter against an 0-11 team.

    I don't like it, but I can understand it.

    They weren't real worried about their opponent getting a garbage TD or even two when it would chew up most of the clock. Obviously the level to which it occurred is unacceptable, and you'd like to see them shut the Colts down completely, but that lack of effort is probably pretty unlikely to happen in the playoffs.

    Let's see how the D responds next week.
     
  6. farn

    farn 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    It's ok : would we feel better if they had stopped the Colts and that Wilfork got concussed or Mayo would have broken a leg ?

    Drop back, try things, don't lose... Let's chill. The D isn't that good. Let's all accept that and see if the offense can carry us to a few wins in January.
     
  7. BradyFTW!

    BradyFTW! PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Well, we already know that the D isn't very good even when the starters are playing, so it's not really noteworthy that they suck when they're playing a bunch of scrubs and guys out of position. They trounced the Colts for the duration of the part where they were trying, got the win, avoided major injuries, and got to try some new stuff out. How is that a bad result?
     
  8. ausbacker

    ausbacker Brady > Manning. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I have an idea about how to improve our rushing game; give our best ball carrier more than 6 carries in the game.
     
  9. DarrylS

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    "Garbage time" makes more sense, if you take a look at the Curran article.. that indicates the BB was trying different players at different positions.

    Also think that the Offense lost their focus, and got complacent.
     
  10. goheels22002

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    Three consecutive three-and-outs in the fourth quarter is disconcerting, but when you are up 31-3, it's natural to coast and not have a sense of urgency.

    If you find your blood pressure rising about this, go watch the highlights of the Dallas Cowboys "icing their own kicker." It will make you laugh and grateful for what goes on around these parts.
     
  11. AndyJohnson

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    The point of 'garbage time' which is a horrible term is not a matter of not trying, it is a matter of situational football.
    If I have a 4 TD lead and there is 15 minutes left in the game, you will not beat me unless you score very quickly. If I play a defensive style that is designed to take away deep throws and quick strikes, by definition, I am making it easier for you to take short stuff, and move slowly down the field. I am not letting you move down the field, but I have changed the dynamics of my defense. It is extraordinarily harder for you to score quickly, but much easier for you to drive down the field methodically. If you do that, you do not have enough time to win.
    While that isn't a good means to end up ranked highly in yardage, it certainly is a solid plan to walk away with a win.
    The idea that the defense played poorly because they got closer lacks insight, because the defense would have played an entirely different scheme if the stopping a score was more critical than running the clock.
    In essence, the game plan at this stage was:
    Do not allow big plays to let them have enough time to win.
    Stop them from a disadvantaged defense that prioritized the above
    If they are perfect, they get close but don't have enough time to win.
    Winning is all that matters, style points don't count.
     
  12. Rob0729

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    When the Pats treat this game like a preseason game with wholesale changes throughout the lineup to give players time, I don't care about garbage time stats. That is what happened yesterday.

    I am not happy that the Pats have consistently taken the foot off the gas in garbage time this year, but it is better than the alternative to why the Pats give up so many yards (they sucked the whole game). They need to improve that.

    Yesterday was an aberration because Belichick put so many scrubs in to give them time to play. Against a better team with the Pats trying, it would be more concerning.
     
  13. PATSYLICIOUS

    PATSYLICIOUS Pro Bowl Player

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    Personally I couldn't care less about it. I'm sure BB isn't thrilled with the performance but as far as focus goes... like i said in the other thread, in 2007 this team crushed ever opponent in sight. They dominated most games from opening kickoff till the clock struck zero, they 'finished games' like everyone is begging for this team to do. And how did they hold up in the most important 4th quarter? Broke down and gave up 2 td's, blew 2 leads. So seriously who gives a **** about how we finish against the friggin 0-12 Colts in a meaningless quarter. It has ZERO relevance to later in the season. We won and looks like we escaped without injury.

    The only object of concern as aus alluded to, we were up 28 points at one point and nobody on the team carried the ball more than 6 times.
     
  14. MoLewisrocks

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    Yet had we run Benny into the ground up 31 and had him suffer a 4-6 week injury or gotten there would have been threads instead lambasting Bill for not being smart enough to coast against the hapless Colts because of arrogance and wanting to stomp Polian rather than keep his starters healthy for the playoffs...

    Garbage time mentality is a function of human nature. It's hard for coach to counter it without being accused of something else... I'm sure in Indy today they are blaming Caldwell for not winning the game given how well the Colts appeared capable of playing for a couple of minutes in the 4th quarter...

    Brady often sounds like a broken record when he preaches about the significance of mental toughness and lapses in execution. The defense had an excuse for their lapse, albeit unfortunate it resulted in two nearly uncontested scores. I'm sure Brady is more concerned about an offense that really didn't. They didn't need to march down the field and score, but they did need to show they could still march down the field and keep the defense out of it...and it doesn't matter whether they do that on the ground or via the short passing game. Both should work when you need them to, whether you are just completing a theoretical exercise or fighting for your life... This offense isn't there yet, and that's a lot scarier scenario heading toward January. But it's a lot easier to fix because it's clearly not about talent on that side of the ball, it's just about focus on consistent effort and execution.

    This defense is what it is. It has no shot of dominating this season. Just not enough talent on that side of the ball. And dealing with a lot of injuries. So Bill is trying to find out just how much leeway he has to plug and play and scheme with.
     
  15. RayClay

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    The obvious point about garbage time has been made, but I'd like to mention something else. Olrovsky made some really good throws and played an overall fine game. Just happens he got to play with a pretty good receiving corps too.

    Posters seem to think that we walk in and other teams just roll over for us. Orlovsky had something to prove and the available weapons to put some points on the board. He was playing til the end and would have gladly it us up for some easy scores had we played too tight. moving up and down the field takes time off the clock and means he has to prove it every ten yards. It's not really garbage time, as it is that time is on our side and we can win by making time run out as well as by trying to maintain a certain point lead.

    We wouldn't consider making Peyton settle for ten yard, instead of forty yard, passes garbage time. We've seen it too often that he could hit for a couple quick TDs, then have tons of time to get the rest, by both short and long, screwing our advantage.

    This QB was playing very well, indoors with great receivers. Our secondary is a work in progress, to be kind. It's not really garbage time, it's using time and a lead to your advantage to make teams work for every score and use the clock.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2011
  16. Deus Irae

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    The Patriots don't have garbage time, because they take every opponent seriously and they play for the full 60 minutes.
     
  17. fxkane

    fxkane Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    With a big lead, there are two ways to kill the clock 1) play prevent defense or 2) get first downs by hook or by crook (the game is all about first downs, not scores)

    Yesterday we picked up zero first downs, so the clocked was killed via prevent defense. But it might better have been killed by normal defense, given the scary result. And one has to wonder just how sick a team can be as not to be able to pick up one lousy first down against the Indy defense after trampling over them the whole game.
     
  18. Keyser Söze

    Keyser Söze In the Starting Line-Up

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    The defense was allowing 10+ minutes drives to Indy's pathetic offense. Indy kept shooting themselves in the foot, they get to the two yard line and get a penalty and wind up with 3 points. They were moving the ball at will.
     
  19. BradyFTW!

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    I agree in principle, but the Colts *did* score multiple times on deep routes in the fourth quarter, because the corners were getting flat-out beaten down the field. It wasn't a matter of situational football, it was a matter of terrible execution. But once again, terrible execution isn't surprising when you're playing bottom of the roster and out of position players. It was garbage time.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2011
  20. Ivan

    Ivan Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Agree completely, I wish we were Colts fans so we could root for a good team. Watching the Patriots SUCK game after game, year after year sucks, an d the worst part is that they always get stuck picking at the end of each round. Having to be a Patriots fan is just sooooo unfair. I think i will go have a good cry, maybe then i can watch the replay and cry some more.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2011
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