Time For Some Mea Culpas

[VJCPatriot]

He's 6'5, 256 lbs. He is athletic, good upper body muscle definition, only 10 percent body fat. Runs a 4.72 in the 40, a 2.71 in the 20, and a 1.56 in the 10 yard dash. "Works well in space, showing fluid change of direction agility. He can stay with RBs and TE in coverage. "Uses his hands effectively to press and reroute" in coverage. "Chases hard and shows good urgency getting to the ball" He "hits with pop on contact and has the strong hands and technique to jar the ball loose from the ball carrier (four fumble recoveries, three forced fumbles in 06)" He is instinctive, smart and wraps up. He holds his ground at point of attack and is active with his hands in attempts to shed" blockers. He can play ILB/OLB.

These are just a few tidbit quotes from a lengthy paragraph on him from a paid site.

He's my favorite LB in the draft. You should know his name, I've said it enough times.

Would that be Jarvis Moss? Anyways a draft type of post should probably go to the draft forum. No offense but let's try to keep our topics on topic.

 

[PATRIOTS-80]

Would that be Jarvis Moss? Anyways a draft type of post should probably go to the draft forum. No offense but let's try to keep our topics on topic.

Nope. He played LB in college. He's already been discussed at great length in the draft forum.

 

[PaulNEPats]

The receiver position was a HUGE area of need. Anyone who didn't believe this to be true, was either in a state of denial, or lived under a rock. Not only do we have a legitimate deep threat in Stallworth, but also a reliable slot receiver in Welker to take Troy's place. Now you have solid backups in Gaffney and Jackson (hopefully he moves into the starting role over the course of the season).

Maroney must be the happiest guy in the team next to Brady. Now he doesn't have to worry about being mugged by 8 men in the box everytime he touches the ball. This really hurt his production into the latter part of the season (accompanied by the rookie wall most likely).

 

[JoeSixPat]

Simple reason, building the lines came first.

Deion screwed them out of a contract year and they don't panic and pay too much for receivers they're not sure about. I think they thought they could sign Givens also.

Their linebacker and DB situation are still thin and probably cost them the Colts game. Their offense was sufficient, (18 point lead).

They knew they had money and picks this year and they don't overpay one year,then collapse in cap hell, they build for the future by getting value value value.

Actually they wanted to sign Stallworth last season as well, indicating that Belichick recognized the need for a proven deep threat even last year... but was forced to go into the season depending on Jackson for that.

What can't be denied is that as so many here were saying we were set at WR, Belichick and Pioli were working to bring in not one, but two WRs.

That speaks for itself, and I'd suggest anyone who believes otherwise show up at the press conference to ask BB why he'd be so stupid as to address the WR spot in free agency when everyone knows Caldwell and Gaffney have things all taken care of.

 

[Brady to Brown]

OK, I see where this is going (Brown retiring -which everyone knew was a possibility BEFORE they posted on the lack of need to address the wr position -and Jackson's injury was the reason bb and Pioli addressed the wr's, the large cap room -which everyone also was aware of before their posts - made a wr signing a no brainer, these wr's signings are not that extraordinary and are in keeping with past wr signings....). Whatever, seems to me that BB and Pioli sat down after the season and said one of the first orders of business is to address the wr position. That is what many of us also said, and many others disagreed with.

I agree with you 100%. WR was a big problem last year and its clear BB and SP felt this way as well.

 

[Deus Irae]

Actually they wanted to sign Stallworth last season as well, indicating that Belichick recognized the need for a proven deep threat even last year... but was forced to go into the season depending on Jackson for that.

What can't be denied is that as so many here were saying we were set at WR, Belichick and Pioli were working to bring in not one, but two WRs.

That speaks for itself, and I'd suggest anyone who believes otherwise show up at the press conference to ask BB why he'd be so stupid as to address the WR spot in free agency when everyone knows Caldwell and Gaffney have things all taken care of.

Again:

Welker = Brown's replacement. This is not the filling of an urgent need that was missed last season, it's the standard maneuver that all teams do. When you are losing a player to retirement or free agency, you replace him.

Stallworth = Jackson's replacement/team upgrade. This is the player that everyone knows this team has wanted for years, not just last year. They drafted Bethel for this role and he didn't work out. They drafted Jackson for this role, but he's been injured and doesn't appear ready yet. So, they went and got a free agent to fill the position. To act as if this is proof of some problem with last year's receivers above and beyond what Belioli's been trying to do beginning with the drafting of Johnson is silly.

Last year's receivers were no great shakes, but they were good enough, in concert with the running game, tight ends and quarterback, to get this team to the Super Bowl. It's the defense that didn't hold up its end of the deal in the end.

 

[RayClay]

Actually they wanted to sign Stallworth last season as well, indicating that Belichick recognized the need for a proven deep threat even last year... but was forced to go into the season depending on Jackson for that.

What can't be denied is that as so many here were saying we were set at WR, Belichick and Pioli were working to bring in not one, but two WRs.

That speaks for itself, and I'd suggest anyone who believes otherwise show up at the press conference to ask BB why he'd be so stupid as to address the WR spot in free agency when everyone knows Caldwell and Gaffney have things all taken care of.

That was never my position. My position was, we picked up for nothing similar talent that Branch and Givens offered.

The 4 years experience were unreplaceable in the short term, the smarts and team play and fit to our system, (quickness for Branch), always questionable in a new receiver.

We didn't panic and make expensive moves and we now reap the benefits.

We had other positions that were even more questionable.

We ended up the Colts game with Rashad Baker at safety and Eric Alexander at ILB.

If you're telling me we were all set at other positions but had an all out emergency at WR.........

I'll take an 18 point lead over the Colts. Wide receivers didn't lose that lead.

BTW, I don't believe I started a thread demanding apologies from everyone who said our Linebacker talent and depth was fine and that's why I called out the poster who seems to have disappeared.

*Or our DB depth.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Again:

Welker = Brown's replacement. This is not the filling of an urgent need that was missed last season, it's the standard maneuver that all teams do. When you are losing a player to retirement or free agency, you replace him.

Stallworth = Jackson's replacement/team upgrade. This is the player that everyone knows this team has wanted for years, not just last year. They drafted Bethel for this role and he didn't work out. They drafted Jackson for this role, but he's been injured and doesn't appear ready yet. So, they went and got a free agent to fill the position. To act as if this is proof of some problem with last year's receivers above and beyond what Belioli's been trying to do beginning with the drafting of Johnson is silly.

Last year's receivers were no great shakes, but they were good enough, in concert with the running game, tight ends and quarterback, to get this team to the Super Bowl. It's the defense that didn't hold up its end of the deal in the end.

Ah - sorry... now I understand.

I wasn't aware Troy had already said he had retired and the Jackson was cut.

This clearly explains why everyone was saying WR was not an offseason priority.

Seriously, I don't think you're aware of how many people felt that

1.) With Caldwell and Gaffney, there was no need to upgrade at WR - period... no Welker, no Stallworth - no anyone. We're set - end of debate, and there's no way BB is going to waste any money here and;
2.) The team did not suffer by having a "deep threat" WR who averages 12.5 ypc

 

[Deus Irae]

Ah - sorry... now I understand.

I wasn't aware Troy had already said he had retired and the Jackson was cut.

This clearly explains why everyone was saying WR was not an offseason priority.

Seriously, I don't think you're aware of how many people felt that

1.) With Caldwell and Gaffney, there was no need to upgrade at WR - period... no Welker, no Stallworth - no anyone. We're set - end of debate, and there's no way BB is going to waste any money here and;
2.) The team did not suffer by having a "deep threat" WR who averages 12.5 ypc

Try using your head instead of making feeble attempts at witty retorts. Welker was available this year. He wasn't available last year, and would not likely have been available next year. He is a perfect replacement, style-wise, for Troy Brown. So, as you should know, he's a sensible signing whether Brown retires this offseason or next. It's precisely what this team has done ever since Belioli took over.

As for Stallworth, please find where I said the team didn't want a deep threat. I believe that I pointed out the team's efforts in this area since Bethel Johnson.

Sometimes all it takes is a little bit of reading. You should give it a try sometime.

 

[signbabybrady]

My mea culpas:

I have dogged Stallworth in the past, but must admit and said as well prior to the signing that he has potential to be the deep threat that we sorely need. and I am very excited about all the signings as a whole.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Try using your head instead of making feeble attempts at witty retorts. Welker was available this year. He wasn't available last year, and would not likely have been available next year. He is a perfect replacement, style-wise, for Troy Brown. So, as you should know, he's a sensible signing whether Brown retires this offseason or next. It's precisely what this team has done ever since Belioli took over.

As for Stallworth, please find where I said the team didn't want a deep threat. I believe that I pointed out the team's efforts in this area since Bethel Johnson.

Sometimes all it takes is a little bit of reading. You should give it a try sometime.

Let's slow this down so you can understand the context... there were tons of people posting here - and good for you if you weren't one of them - who thought that:

1.) WR was all set with Caldwell and Gaffney going into this season. Period. No Stallworth. No Welker. No anybody. No upgrades at WR - no draft picks, no free agent signings, no trades.

That's a fact - any time I or others suggested that there was a need for signficant upgrades at WR the suggestion was roundly mocked and ridiculed.

2.) There were also a great many who scoffed at the suggestion that our team's lack of a deep WR threat had any adverse impact on other aspects of the game - supposedly under the delusion that CBs and Safeties would position themselves 30 yards deep to cover WRs who tended not to run routes deeper than 15 yards.

What can't be denied is that both of these needs were deemed a high priority by Coach Belichick...

Period - no debate necessary. It's a fact.

 

[Ghost of Ben Dreith]

I am in full disagreement that the WR position was terrible last year and we just had major upgrades in Welker and Stallworth.

As I have stated in previous posts, those of you who think Welker will be our #2 need a serious dose of reality. He really should be our #4 behind Gaffney and Caldwell.

Do the Stallworth and Welker deals make the WR corp better.....oh yes....was it the major reason the Pats "struggled" last year and only made it to the AFCCG....I don't think so. At least not the game I was watching.

WR will never make or break the Pats, and neither will these two signings.

 

[JoeSixPat]

I am in full disagreement that the WR position was terrible last year and we just had major upgrades in Welker and Stallworth.

As I have stated in previous posts, those of you who think Welker will be our #2 need a serious dose of reality. He really should be our #4 behind Gaffney and Caldwell.

Do the Stallworth and Welker deals make the WR corp better.....oh yes....was it the major reason the Pats "struggled" last year and only made it to the AFCCG....I don't think so. At least not the game I was watching.

WR will never make or break the Pats, and neither will these two signings.

Thank you for helping me illustrate the prevailing mentality around here for Deus Irae.

Suffice to say, the coach and GM of the Patriots respectfully disagree with you. Thank God.

 

[cstjohn17]

I thought there was room for improvement with the WRs. The 2006 group ,(Caldwell, Gaffney, Brown, Jackson and Kight), were among the least talented in the NFL.

My mistake was thinking that the position would be developed through rejects from other teams (Terrell, Davis, Gabriel, Hayes, etc.)

I was completely wrong, the Patriots were aggressive and creative in upgrading the position. This FA period has been amazing, better than I ever expected.

 

[spacecrime]

Now that the team has spoken and the true experts have weighed in on whether or not a major upgrade to the wr position was needed, time for mea culpas from those of you that dissed anyone who suggested a major upgrade to the wr position was in order. Please take this opportunity to acknowledge your shortcomings here. Many of you have scoffed at our lack of understanding of the Patriots (the Patriot offense is predicated on spreading the ball around so anyone will do, Gaffney and Caldwell are more than adequate, the shortcomings of the offense had nothing to do with our receivers, the receiver position is overrated...). Only full apologies will be accepted - no half apologies.

Piss off. The major shortcoming here is your lack of understanding, not just of the Patriots, but of football.

We would have gone to the superbowl last year with the WRs we had if the defense didn't let Indy come back from what 21-3? The defense let Indy hold the ball for two drives of about 10 miutes each at the end of the half, and the start of the third quarter. And even then, all we needed was one stinking RB to gain a first down with two minutes and change left to play.

Much as your desparate need for someone to tell you how smart you are, signing two WRs proves as much as drafting two TEs last told us about how bad Graham and Watson are, or how drafting Left Tackles in one draft said something about Matt Light.

One more first down, or a defense that showed up in the second half of the AFCCG, neither of which have anything to do with WRs, and then our WR situation would be okay.

Try and look behind the obvious knee-jerk and look at decisions based on something other than "We made a bad move with WRs and I can prove it: look who many of the D had the flu" B.S.

Was the WR situation last year ideal? No.

Was it the weakness that kept us out of the Suerbowl? No.

If the D had one in the AFCCG one third of the good job they'd done in the regular season, we'd have 4 Lombardis in 6 seasons.

I don't know if I dissed you before, but just in case, consider this dissing you for your not watching the AFCCG (or understanding what happened and how we came to lose.)

HINT: It wasn't the refs, and it wasn't the WRs.

 

[PatsMyBoyz!]

I never dreamed we'd go this deep into FA and still have cap monies,but when I heard about Stallworth visiting I hopped right on that bandwagon. But prior to this I thought we had other,more pressing priorities,situations which would not have improved this year like our offense had the potential to do.
I was blown away by the AD signing alone. He solved multiple issues,and last weekend as a whole took care of a lot of holes.
Then the Moss talks started and,I'll mea culpa this much-I didn't want him here. If he was our only option then yes,we were "ok" with what we had especially with Welken on board.
We could make do without Moss. Stallworth was another story though.He,imo,was worth pursuing because worst case scenario he'd at least get us through Chad's injury. I also had reservations about drafting another WR. We saw last year how painful it can be waiting until that experience and chemistry finally develops.
If we do draft one,at least we've got some veterans on board first. I'm very pleased with this FA all around.

 

[lutontown_fc]

I find the most successful way of initiating debate is to come off like a total arrogant jerk in the opening post.

People tend to be receptive to accepting blame if you take the time to beat them over the head with attributed statements - throw in a few 'I told you so's' and you have a recipe for well informed, good natured debate.

 

[Deus Irae]

Let's slow this down so you can understand the context... there were tons of people posting here - and good for you if you weren't one of them - who thought that:

1.) WR was all set with Caldwell and Gaffney going into this season. Period. No Stallworth. No Welker. No anybody. No upgrades at WR - no draft picks, no free agent signings, no trades.

That's a fact - any time I or others suggested that there was a need for signficant upgrades at WR the suggestion was roundly mocked and ridiculed.

2.) There were also a great many who scoffed at the suggestion that our team's lack of a deep WR threat had any adverse impact on other aspects of the game - supposedly under the delusion that CBs and Safeties would position themselves 30 yards deep to cover WRs who tended not to run routes deeper than 15 yards.

What can't be denied is that both of these needs were deemed a high priority by Coach Belichick...

Period - no debate necessary. It's a fact.

Please explain how Welker is a 'significant' upgrade to Brown.

As for the rest, nothing you stated in any way conflicts with what I had said, your snide remarks notwithstanding. They needed to find Brown's successor and they needed a speed receiver because Jackson may not be ready/capable to fill that role at any given point this season. Now, despite your protestations, they were able to manage last season without the speed receiver. Hopefully, we'll see an even better offensive season now that they have one.

 

[Pujo]

It's funny how thin skinned people are. Point out the original poster's few posts, get in a few half-assed insults. The OP is right, WR is important and the Pats showed us that by going after the position in free agency. In some respects the available players determined who they'd reach for, but it's no coincidence that LB and WR is where we got the biggest upgrades.

 

[Wotan_the_Wanderer]

Now that the team has spoken and the true experts have weighed in on whether or not a major upgrade to the wr position was needed, time for mea culpas from those of you that dissed anyone who suggested a major upgrade to the wr position was in order.

Well, I wanted a major upgrade at the position, but after the Welker trade, I wanted BB/SP to draft another receiver rather than sign Stallworth. Now that Dante''s on the team, who am I to second guess. I'm just happy the position's been addressed and upgraded at least on paper that is. So how about I give you half a mea culpa, stand in the corner against the wall with one arm raised for five minutes.