Time For Some Mea Culpas

[JoeSixPat]

Must have watched another game. I didn't see the offense put up 34 points. I know everyone keeps saying it, but it didn't happen.

Yeah - don't bother. He thought Stallworth was a rookie who was too expensive to be squeezed in with $10 million in salary cap space... beyond that only wants to focus on one game and apparently isn't interested in getting a bye or home field advantage by improving the team beyond the defense and actually winning a few more games in the regular season.

I also think that he just had a blood vessel pop as he heard we signed another veteran (that is, not a rookie) WR - the third signing by BB to a position that was not a priority need.

As I said in another thread however, last year was a rebuilding season for the Patriots, and we came within 1 minute of likely winning the Super Bowl. Now, BB continues "building" and damn - its got to have other teams shaking in thier boots.

Can't wait to see those posters who like to boast about the dynasty being over. No question the Pats are SB favorites and could well be for the next 5 years given these offseason moves.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Are you really this ridiculous, or is this an act?

1.) I haven't 'determined' anything about Welker moving forward. I specifically mentioned that his numbers LAST YEAR were not a real upgrade from Troy's. I also mentioned that as one player gets ready to move on, you need to bring in his replacement, and simply notice that this is done in the normal flow of the league and not as a 'panic' move.

2.) I didn't say that Stallworth is the second coming of Donald Hayes, I noted some of the receivers that Belioli have tried to get to fill the deep threat role, and Hayes was one of them. Seriously, do you have reading comprehension issues?

3.) I never even talked about Stallworth signing last year, as it wasn't even an issue, since he was under contract elsewhere. Therefore, $1.9 million was not something I talked about.

4.) I never got into the rookie/veteran issue with Stallworth, that I recall. The closest I came to that was to note that Jackson had been a rookie.


You might want to consider remedial reading courses.

You are correct sir. I'm confusing you with njpatsfan. You don't deserve derision for his comments. My apologies.


My other responses to your posts do stand though

 

[Deus Irae]

No - the proof of Belichick's thought process was the fact that he signed two free agent WRs. I'm pretty sure that's what Felger was referring to as well.

Did you really take my posting that quote from Felger as suggesting that Belichick and Felger are the same person?

Or perhaps you are suggesting BB isn't the one making the calls and that he really DIDN'T view WR as a priority for an upgrade?

But please, I'm dying to hear you expain how multiple players would have needed to be cut to afford Stallworth last season! Or how Stallworth was a rookie last year.

For some strange reason you keep neglecting to share those insights with us!

You cited an article that didn't even had a Belichick quote making the point you were claiming. The only possible way you could claim this was proof of Belichick's intent is if you were making the clearly erroneous claim that they are the same person.

And, again, you keep talking about Stallworth last season as if it was an option. It wasn't.

 

[JoeSixPat]

You cited an article that didn't even had a Belichick quote making the point you were claiming. The only possible way you could claim this was proof of Belichick's intent is if you were making the clearly erroneous claim that they are the same person.

And, again, you keep talking about Stallworth last season as if it was an option. It wasn't.

Oh please - give it up.

You say WR wasn't a position of need. BB "says" it was by signing not one, not two, but three veteran WRs.

End of debate.

 

[PATRIOTS-80]

End of debate.

No ... I have won. End of debate.

 

[JoeSixPat]

No ... I have won. End of debate.

Belichick won - and all fans are the beneficiaries of that.

 

[Deus Irae]

Oh please - give it up.

You say WR wasn't a position of need. BB "says" it was by signing not one, not two, but three veteran WRs.

End of debate.

Unlike yourself, I don't presume to know what Belioli is thinking. Go back and try actually reading the thread. I said that the signings of Welker and Stallworth weren't 'proof' backing the OP and putting people into a mea culpa position: they aren't. And, since we're at it, neither is signing a guy to compete for the #4 or #5 spot, in Washington. You have been fool enough to act as if replacing a retiring player is somehow a panic signing. As for signing 3 veteran WR's being proof, feel free to go back and look at how many receivers he generally brings into camp and/or makes trades for each season.

 

[PATRIOTS-80]

Unlike yourself, I don't presume to know what Belioli is thinking.

JoeSix Pat, here's my quote from 01-31-07:

Wes Walker -- worth a second round pick?
If he gets a second round pick tender as a RFA, would he be worth it? If BB gets a WR in FA, I am guessing odds are it will be a PR. A second round pick is a high price to pay, but I might be willing to pay it.

Are there any other good PR in FA, especially any UFA?
............................................
If BB gets a Wes Walker and Carlos Polk I would be estatic.
..................................................................................
What FA PR would you be looking at? The only reason I bring this up is because I remember BB signed Tim Dwight in '05.

here's your quote:

We have plenty of guys who can average 10 yards per catch. I'm perfectly happy with them.

Having only another slot receiver will only encourage defenses to collapse further.

I understood the value that PR brought to the team. Many people who I respect on the board (like BB fan) said no.

But you didn't see me posting a damn look-at-me, aren't I so wonderful, I knew that PR was a need and BB agreed with me crappy post. Aren't I so smart. I deserve praise.

(BTW, as usual, Keegs contribution to the thread is that he would trade a arena league pick for Wes, but that's neither here nor there ).



http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showthread.php?t=49978&page=2

 

[cstjohn17]

Unlike yourself, I don't presume to know what Belioli is thinking. Go back and try actually reading the thread. I said that the signings of Welker and Stallworth weren't 'proof' backing the OP and putting people into a mea culpa position: they aren't. And, since we're at it, neither is signing a guy to compete for the #4 or #5 spot, in Washington. You have been fool enough to act as if replacing a retiring player is somehow a panic signing. As for signing 3 veteran WR's being proof, feel free to go back and look at how many receivers he generally brings into camp and/or makes trades for each season.

Your perspective reminds me of the Captain of the Titanic.

We will never know what the FO truly felt about the 2006 WRs but looking ahead to 2007 they must not have been too excited about their top 2 WRS (Gaffney & Caldwell).

Unlike other years the Patriots were proactive and obtained credible talent. In the past they have tried to patch things together with a hoard of veterans JAGS (Terrell, Hayes, Dwight) or traded 5th round picks for other veteran JAGS (Andre Davis, Gabriel).

This year they obtained 2 of the top WRs available in free agency, 2 of the top 7 according to this list

I don't care or want people to apologize but please stop telling us that the WR situation was fine.

I am also aware that LB depth was an issue against Indy. There was plenty of blame to go around in that game. Looking at it from a historical perspective the Patriots defense has generally outplayed the offense, against Indy they needed to offense to bail them out for a change and came up just short. Stuff happens, it was once in a lifetime event, time to move on.

 

[Deus Irae]

Your perspective reminds me of the Captain of the Titanic.

We will never know what the FO truly felt about the 2006 WRs but looking ahead to 2007 they must not have been too excited about their top 2 WRS (Gaffney & Caldwell).

Unlike other years the Patriots were proactive and obtained credible talent. In the past they have tried to patch things together with a hoard of veterans JAGS (Terrell, Hayes, Dwight) or traded 5th round picks for other veteran JAGS (Andre Davis, Gabriel).

This year they obtained 2 of the top WRs available in free agency, 2 of the top 7 according to this list

I don't care or want people to apologize but please stop telling us that the WR situation was fine.

I am also aware that LB depth was an issue against Indy. There was plenty of blame to go around in that game. Looking at it from a historical perspective the Patriots defense has generally outplayed the offense, against Indy they needed to offense to bail them out for a change and came up just short. Stuff happens, it was once in a lifetime event, time to move on.

1.) I wasn't one singing the praises of this receiving corps in the way the OP was talking about. However, I thought that they improved over the course of the season, and the receivers were clearly not the problem in the Championship game. I'm all for bringing in more receivers and letting them compete (although Stallworth has been a question mark in my eyes since college), but that doesn't mean that the OP was proven right. I don't want to see the Bam Childress' of the world starting for this team due to injuries.

2.) Hayes was coming off of two seasons with 66 catches with a 14 yard average and 52 catches with an 11.5 yard average. That's not exactly horrible. He simply didn't work out. That's 118 catches for 1523 yards and averaged a 12.9 yard average. Stallworth, in comparison, had 108 catches for 1670 yards and averaged 15.5 per. Hopefully, Stallworth will work out much better than did Mr. Hayes.

3.) This year's group of receivers in free agency is quite poor. I like the Welker signing, especially, but claiming that these are 2 of the top WRs available in free agency is like claiming 2 women are some of the prettiest Rosie O'Donnell lookalikes.

4.) This team ended up being ranked 6th in total offense despite all the turmoil and turnaround in the early season. It was also the #7 scoring offense in the regular season and the #1 scoring offense in the postseason.

Like it or not, it was not the offense that failed this team. Had the defense been able to do its job, this offense would have been good enough to win a Super Bowl. This should be a source of hope for the future instead of finger pointing and chest beating, since the defense is not likely to be flu ridden the next time.

 

[PaulNEPats]

Deus, just admit you were wrong so we can move on. THREE WR signings means they wanted to upgrade the position. END OF STORY!

 

[mb6592]

1.)I'm all for bringing in more receivers and letting them compete (although Stallworth has been a question mark in my eyes since college), but that doesn't mean that the OP was proven right

The OP's reason for starting this thread:

1. Many posters felt that one of the first orders of business after the season was to upgrade the wr position - that going into next season with Caldwell, Gaffney, an unproven Jackson, an older (possibly retiring) Brown, et al wasn't going to cut,

2. Those of us who stated this opinion were roundly criticized by many on this board,

3. now it seems obvious that BB and Pioli sat down after the season and said one of the first orders of business is to address the wr position.

What part of these points do you disagree with?

 

[JoeSixPat]

The OP's reason for starting this thread:

1. Many posters felt that one of the first orders of business after the season was to upgrade the wr position - that going into next season with Caldwell, Gaffney, an unproven Jackson, an older (possibly retiring) Brown, et al wasn't going to cut,

2. Those of us who stated this opinion were roundly criticized by many on this board,

3. now it seems obvious that BB and Pioli sat down after the season and said one of the first orders of business is to address the wr position.

What part of these points do you disagree with?

Or in other words, there are some who would prefer to have a WR Corps of Reche Caldwell, Jabar Gaffney, Troy Brown, Chad Jackson, Kelvin Kight, Bam Childress, and Jonathan Smith instead of Coach Belichick's prefernece of Welker, Caldwell, Stallworth, Gaffney, Washington, Jackson and hopefully Troy Brown.

Given a choice between the two I'll go with BB's choices over those who clearly and emphatically wanted no changes at WR.