Time For Some Mea Culpas

[Deus Irae]

Exactly right. The are arguing against the facts. So be it.

When was Felger discovered to be the Nom de Plume for Bill Belichick?

 

[shmessy]

"For all of you who tried to make the claim last year that the receiving situation didn’t hurt the Patriots - that Deion Branch and David Givens weren’t missed and Tom Brady may have been the problem - you must now realize this:

Bill Belichick disagrees with you. "

http://patriots.bostonherald.com/patriots/view.bg?articleid=187916


I think its more funny that even as BB proves you wrong, so many continue to protest.

And based on your logic, since we came so close to the Super Bowl, the LB situation can't be all that bad, right? I mean, we were just one minute away - therefore there's no way that the LB situation hurt us right?

Therefore no need to bolster the LB corps, right?

Amazing the warped logic that people use.

LB was a need AND Wide Reciever was a need. It CAN be more than one shortcoming you know.

Of course, the Pats wanted to upgrade WR. They want to upgrade everywhere.

But the reason why they gave up 32 points in the second half and lost 38-34 in the Indy Dome wasn't because of the WR's.

You can take one line from my previous post and do whatever you want with it (ain't cutting and pasting fun?) but the main reason the Pats aren't sitting around with four rings today is because of the inability of the linebackers to stop the Colts in the second half. The D wasn't even adequate in that second half.

For that reason, IMHO getting Ed Hartwell would be more important to this team than getting Stallworth (even though Hartwell will cost the Pats less).

Had the D been merely awful in that second half and gave up just 26 points, all the stomping and crying about Branch and Givens by the fantasy football society would be relegated to high school audio/visual rooms.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Troy Brown was the team's #3 receiver last season. In that role, he was far more successful at picking up first downs than Welker was. Welker was a lesser punt returner than Kevin Faulk was last season and does not likely represent an upgrade there, either. Welker did not play cornerback when needed, to the best of my knowledge. What Welker did was catch more balls in an offense that threw more often than New England's.

Regarding Stallworth, whom you didn't mention, the same mistake is being made on this thread. As Donald Hayes, Bethel Johnson, Chad Jackson, Andre Davis and others have shown, this is a team that has been trying, year after year, to bring in a downfield receiver. In fact, in the case of Stallworth, we know that New England wasn't even the high bidder, something you wouldn't expect to be the case if this was an area of such panicked necessity. There's a difference between the natural transition and improving of a position and panicked maneuvering. Last season was when the panic moves were made, as the team was forced to scramble to replace Branch as best as could be done.

Wow - you know, rather than respond I think I'll just let your post speak for itself.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Of course, the Pats wanted to upgrade WR. They want to upgrade everywhere.

But the reason why they gave up 32 points in the second half and lost 38-34 in the Indy Dome wasn't because of the WR's.

You can take one line from my previous post and do whatever you want with it (ain't cutting and pasting fun?) but the main reason the Pats aren't sitting around with four rings today is because of the inability of the linebackers to stop the Colts in the second half. The D wasn't even adequate in that second half.

For that reason, IMHO getting Ed Hartwell would be more important to this team than getting Stallworth (even though Hartwell will cost the Pats less).

Had the D been merely awful in that second half and gave up just 26 points, all the stomping and crying about Branch and Givens by the fantasy football society would be relegated to high school audio/visual rooms.

Well again, seems like BB disagrees with you.

And although I understand why some focus solely on the last game, I'm looking at an entire season where the lack of a deep threat posed major challenges for our offense.

How many more games would we have won with a better WR corps last year? My guess is 2 - or enough to give us a bye and maybe home field advantage - i.e. enough to get to and win the Super Bowl.

What I can't understand is why so many people would be opposed to that.

Now how many more games would we have won with a deeper LB corps - which, as with WR we knew going into the season was an area of need, though at that point had little recourse to address it?

Maybe 2 games again - or enough to win the Super Bowl.

The difference here is that some people, like Coach Belichick, recognize that both WR and LB were areas of need, and some people refuse to acknowledge the shortcomings of our WRs last season.

BB has spoken and the team is better. I'm estatic - too bad others can't be too.

 

[PATRIOTS-80]

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showpost.php?p=372416&postcount=27

My post in the other thread applies to this one as well.

Plus, I just wanted to get one post closer to *********** status.

 

[shmessy]

Well again, seems like BB disagrees with you.

And although I understand why some focus solely on the last game, I'm looking at an entire season where the lack of a deep threat posed major challenges for our offense.

How many more games would we have won with a better WR corps last year? My guess is 2 - or enough to give us a bye and maybe home field advantage - i.e. enough to get to and win the Super Bowl.

What I can't understand is why so many people would be opposed to that.

Now how many more games would we have won with a deeper LB corps - which, as with WR we knew going into the season was an area of need, though at that point had little recourse to address it?

Maybe 2 games again - or enough to win the Super Bowl.

The difference here is that some people, like Coach Belichick, recognize that both WR and LB were areas of need, and some people refuse to acknowledge the shortcomings of our WRs last season.

BB has spoken and the team is better. I'm estatic - too bad others can't be too.

I'm am ecstatic that the Pats got Welker and Stallworth. What in my posts led you to think otherwise? In your world, just because I feel ILB is a bigger priority to upgrade means I'm dissatisfied with upgrading the WR corps? It's not a zero-sum game.

Just because I'm happy with the WR upgrade does not mean that I shouldn't think LB is an area of greater importance. There are many areas to an NFL team.

It remains that the Pats could have made it to the SB last year with those WR's. They couldn't (and didn't) because of their LB situation.

 

[Deus Irae]

Wow - you know, rather than respond I think I'll just let your post speak for itself.

Given the weakness of your arguments, I wouldn't post any further attempts either, if I were you.

 

[PATRIOTS-80]

Well again, seems like BB disagrees with you.

And it seems Scott Poili disagrees with you and me. And Kraft it seems disagrees with all of us. It seems nobody can agree with anybody. But that's okay, cuz "I am right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

 

[Brady to Brown]

I'm am ecstatic that the Pats got Welker and Stallworth. What in my posts led you to think otherwise? In your world, just because I feel ILB is a bigger priority to upgrade means I'm dissatisfied with upgrading the WR corps? It's not a zero-sum game.

Just because I'm happy with the WR upgrade does not mean that I shouldn't think LB is an area of greater importance. There are many areas to an NFL team.

It remains that the Pats could have made it to the SB last year with those WR's. They couldn't (and didn't) because of their LB situation.

And if Brady had a WR he was confident in perhaps he could have throw him the ball and the Patriots run out the clock vs. the Colts. You think the defense lost the game, maybe with better WR's the offense could have won the game.

 

[mb6592]

When was Felger discovered to be the Nom de Plume for Bill Belichick?

??? What does Felger have to do with this thread? The premise of this thread is/was:

1. Many posters felt that one of the first orders of business after the season was to upgrade the wr position - that going into next season with Caldwell, Gaffney, an unproven Jackson, an older (possibly retiring) Brown, et al wasn't going to cut,

2. Those of us who stated this opinion were roundly criticized by many on this board,

3. now it seems obvious that BB and Pioli sat down after the season and said one of the first orders of business is to address the wr position.

Now we hear...of course, the Pats wanted to upgrade WR, they want to upgrade everywhere...of course they were going to address the wr position, Brown may be retiring....Jackson's injury was the reason for this sudden push to upgrade the wr position....of course they were looking for a speed receiver, they were looking for one last year also....of course they were going to upgrade the wr position they have loads of cap room...

The problem with all these arguments is (except for Jackson's injury) they were all known prior to the criticisms lobbed at us and were not mentioned in any of those criticisms. And I highly doubt that Jackson's injury (an injury to an unproven receiver) was the impetus behind BB and Pioli's clear focus on the wr position. Again, if you were not one of the bashers this thread is not meant for you.

 

[Deus Irae]

And if Brady had a WR he was confident in perhaps he could have throw him the ball and the Patriots run out the clock vs. the Colts. You think the defense lost the game, maybe with better WR's the offense could have won the game.

You're kidding, right? The offense put up 34 points and you're seriously going to point the finger there when the defense couldn't stop the Colts in the second half?

 

[shmessy]

_____________________________

I hear ya, and to your credit, you did specifically name the "bashers" in your original post.

That being said, while I'm happy to see the upgrade at WR, I still see the main reason for the loss at Indy was on the other side of the ball. 32 points in a second half is downright Clive Rushian. When that linebacker corp is head coached by the greatest defensive brain on earth, then a telethon should be held for the unit.

 

[Clonamery]

Again, if you were not one of the bashers this thread is not meant for you.

No, but your attitude and reason for posting isn't any the less annoying.

 

[Deus Irae]

??? What does Felger have to do with this thread? The premise of this thread is/was:

1. Many posters felt that one of the first orders of business after the season was to upgrade the wr position - that going into next season with Caldwell, Gaffney, an unproven Jackson, an older (possibly retiring) Brown, et al wasn't going to cut,

2. Those of us who stated this opinion were roundly critized by many on this board,

3. now it seems obvious that BB and Pioli sat down after the season and said one of the first orders of business is to address the wr position.

Now we hear...of course, the Pats wanted to upgrade WR, they want to upgrade everywhere...of course they were going to address the wr position, Brown may be retiring....Jackson's injury was the reason for this sudden push to upgrade the wr position....of course they were looking for a speed receiver, they were looking for one last year also....of course they were going to upgrade the wr position they have loads of cap room...

The problem with all these arguments is (except for Jackson's injury) they were all known prior to the criticisms lobbed at us and were not mentioned in any of those criticisms. And I highly doubt that Jackson's injury (an injury to an unproven receiver) was the impetus behind BB and Pioli's clear focus on the wr position. Again, if you were not one of the bashers this thread is not meant for you.

Your quote was in response to JoeSixPat's inane decision to cite to Felger's article as 'proof' of Belichick's thought process. That's where Felger comes into it.

As for upgrading the receiver position, nobody that I've ever seen was against upgrading the position. There's a difference between believing that what you have is good enough and believing that what you have is the best.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Given the weakness of your arguments, I wouldn't post any further attempts either, if I were you.

You've already determined that Welker isn't an upgrade over Troy Brown and that Stallworth is the second coming of Donald Hayes, and you consider my "arguments" weak?

Not to mention your contention that the Patriots couldn't afford Stallworth's salary last year and would have had to cut multiple players to squeeze in a $1.9 million salary when they had $10 million in cap space.

And did I miss where you explained how Stallworth, drafted in 2002 was a rookie last year? Perhaps you misunderstood -when I say veteran I mean a football player who has played one or more seasons in the NFL - not someone who has served in Iraq.

As I said - you just keep on talking Deus Irae - the more you say the smarter all of us look!

 

[JoeSixPat]

Your quote was in response to JoeSixPat's inane decision to cite to Felger's article as 'proof' of Belichick's thought process. That's where Felger comes into it.

As for upgrading the receiver position, nobody that I've ever seen was against upgrading the position. There's a difference between believing that what you have is good enough and believing that what you have is the best.

No - the proof of Belichick's thought process was the fact that he signed two free agent WRs. I'm pretty sure that's what Felger was referring to as well.

Did you really take my posting that quote from Felger as suggesting that Belichick and Felger are the same person?

Or perhaps you are suggesting BB isn't the one making the calls and that he really DIDN'T view WR as a priority for an upgrade?

But please, I'm dying to hear you expain how multiple players would have needed to be cut to afford Stallworth last season! Or how Stallworth was a rookie last year.

For some strange reason you keep neglecting to share those insights with us!

 

[upstater1]

You're kidding, right? The offense put up 34 points and you're seriously going to point the finger there when the defense couldn't stop the Colts in the second half?

Must have watched another game. I didn't see the offense put up 34 points. I know everyone keeps saying it, but it didn't happen.

 

[upstater1]

Troy Brown was the team's #3 receiver last season. In that role, he was far more successful at picking up first downs than Welker was. Welker was a lesser punt returner than Kevin Faulk was last season and does not likely represent an upgrade there, either. Welker did not play cornerback when needed, to the best of my knowledge. What Welker did was catch more balls in an offense that threw more often than New England's.

Regarding Stallworth, whom you didn't mention, the same mistake is being made on this thread. As Donald Hayes, Bethel Johnson, Chad Jackson, Andre Davis and others have shown, this is a team that has been trying, year after year, to bring in a downfield receiver. In fact, in the case of Stallworth, we know that New England wasn't even the high bidder, something you wouldn't expect to be the case if this was an area of such panicked necessity. There's a difference between the natural transition and improving of a position and panicked maneuvering. Last season was when the panic moves were made, as the team was forced to scramble to replace Branch as best as could be done.

If this is true, then Bill Belichick is an idiot, a stupid mofo idiot at that, for giving up a 2nd, 7th, and a decent midlevel contract, to a guy who will make very, very, very little difference (as Troy did last year) to our offense.

But, that's your opinion, not mine.

 

[mb6592]

My god, they just signed Kelley Washington. Please continue your arguments with BB and Pioli leave everyone else out of it.

 

[Deus Irae]

You've already determined that Welker isn't an upgrade over Troy Brown and that Stallworth is the second coming of Donald Hayes, and you consider my "arguments" weak?

Not to mention your contention that the Patriots couldn't afford Stallworth's salary last year and would have had to cut multiple players to squeeze in a $1.9 million salary when they had $10 million in cap space.

And did I miss where you explained how Stallworth, drafted in 2002 was a rookie last year? Perhaps you misunderstood -when I say veteran I mean a football player who has played one or more seasons in the NFL - not someone who has served in Iraq.

As I said - you just keep on talking Deus Irae - the more you say the smarter all of us look!

Are you really this ridiculous, or is this an act?

1.) I haven't 'determined' anything about Welker moving forward. I specifically mentioned that his numbers LAST YEAR were not a real upgrade from Troy's. I also mentioned that as one player gets ready to move on, you need to bring in his replacement, and simply notice that this is done in the normal flow of the league and not as a 'panic' move.

2.) I didn't say that Stallworth is the second coming of Donald Hayes, I noted some of the receivers that Belioli have tried to get to fill the deep threat role, and Hayes was one of them. Seriously, do you have reading comprehension issues?

3.) I never even talked about Stallworth signing last year, as it wasn't even an issue, since he was under contract elsewhere. Therefore, $1.9 million was not something I talked about.

4.) I never got into the rookie/veteran issue with Stallworth, that I recall. The closest I came to that was to note that Jackson had been a rookie.


You might want to consider remedial reading courses.