Three Dimensional Chess?

[Ring 6]

You are conflating 2 things. I imagine no Patriot player is immune to being traded for the right offer, and Jones is no exception.

That is not the issue in this thread. The issue in this thread is the ridiculous notion that Bill Belichick was playing "3-d chess" by bringing Levis in for a visit. It was a typical pre-draft visit, which every team does every year with a couple dozen players. It was not some grand mastermind plan and it sure as **** didn't make any other teams panic into moving up into the first round to take him.

- The Titans bring Levis in for a visit: Business as usual
- The Colts bring Levis in for a visit: Business as usual
- The Falcons bring Levis in for a visit: Business as usual
- The Panthers bring Levis in for a visit: Business as usual
- The Texans bring Levis in for a visit: Business as usual
- The Patriots bring Levis in for a visit: OMG!! Belichick is such a genius!! He's playing super duper 4-d tesseract chess while everyone else struggles to learn tic tac toe!!!

It’s kinda sad you could be so bothered by this

 

[captain stone]

Maybe. Or it could just be something as simple as Bill thinking “I was effusive in my praise of Mac last year before the season started. How’d that work out? He **** all over my decisions, went behind my back and disrespected my staff. He never bought in and it affected the team around him.” Now, he’s treating him the way he should. Another guy on the team that needs to go out there and realize he has a target on his back. He needs to earn this job and earn back the respect of those in the building. If the locker room is really some Zappe, some Mac, he’s gonna need to earn their respect too. All this noise just to fill up time slots on radio and tv. Ridiculous.

NOBODY on Billy's offensive "staff" were worthy of respect.

 

[captain stone]

More playoff wins, by far, than anyone, ever. Just saying

Belichick

- Brady
----------

**** LeBeau

 

[Ring 6]

Belichick

- Brady
----------

**** LeBeau

I was referring to “anyone else” being HCs.

 

[Ring 6]

Belichick

- Brady
----------

**** LeBeau

Dante Scarnecchia has 32 playoff wins to Lebeaus 20
McDaniels has 30, Patricia 21. I’m sure a handful of other patriots assistants have 20+

 

[1960Pats]

It is pathetic how far the Belichick krishnas will stretch in a desperate attempt to make every routine move look like absolute genius.

While at the same time attempting to prohibit his mistakes from being discussed anywhere on this site.

Not really. But I don't want to start a Brady discussion thread.

I don't blame anyone who's afraid to bring Brady up here. After all, this is the Belichick reach around thread and his mistake with Brady doesn't fit the narrative.

 

[1960Pats]

Unlike some here I believe the likelihood of Kraft firing Belichick is 0%, that’s what winning 6 Lombardi’s, and increasing the value of your franchise by billions gives you. But I also believe Belichick won’t coach past 2024, and Mayo will be their next coach, and Groh the GM. There will be a setback however, as Goodell will take away their first round choice that year for violating the Rooney Rule, and not interviewing black coaches, All that said if Belichick if applied his own standards to his job he would be fighting for it, because last season was by far his worst coaching job of his career as Patriots HC, if not the worst of his career overall. His Matty P. decision was the highlight of it, but overall it was just really lackluster, as they looked lost all the way through the season. This may or may not be another playoff season, but I think we will see a much different team than we saw last season, as I believe they will at least fight their asses off all season. We will see?

That's the beauty of the NYFL. Every season is a new beginning and anything can happen.

 

[1960Pats]

NOBODY on Billy's offensive "staff" were worthy of respect.

Was bringing in his old pals to coach the offense one of his 3-D chess moves? Or was it a way to stall for a year while he waited for another of his pals to come aboard? Or was it simply a way to save money?

The idiotic notion that started back in Bum Phillip's day about coaches was that he could beat yours with his and then turn around and beat his with yours. That's as false now as it was then.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I don't blame anyone who's afraid to bring Brady up here. After all, this is the Belichick reach around thread and his mistake with Brady doesn't fit the narrative.

I didn't want to start a Brady vs. Belichick discussion out of respect for other posters. That discussion has been repeated endlessly over the last three years and it is way past time to stop spamming threads with a false narrative from both sides. Time to move on, time to respect others, and time to recognize that collectively the PatsFans community is more important than a few poster's need to repeat the same endless discussion points.

 

[Rob0729]

I think people (and I have been guilty of this in the past) want to just make any questionable move by Belichick into some Machiavellian plan. Personally, I think Belichick was butt hurt that Jones turned against him and his staff and couldn't get over it. Plain and simple. He basically shipped Hoyer out on a rail for the same reason.

Now that Mac is the guy. He has to at least pretend to look like he is trying to make it work even if he is just biding his time to ship Mac somewhere else.

After the debacle of last season, I do not give Belichick the benefit of the doubt for any move or action being part of a grander plan.

 

[1960Pats]

I didn't want to start a Brady vs. Belichick discussion out of respect for other posters. That discussion has been repeated endlessly over the last three years and it is way past time to stop spamming threads with a false narrative from both sides. Time to move on, time to respect others, and time to recognize that collectively the PatsFans community is more important than a few poster's need to repeat the same endless discussion points.

I haven't been as active as I used to be with the Belichick criticisms. This thread brought me back for a moment

I come from a time where coaches in the NYFL were fair game, just like managers in baseball and coaches in hockey and bball. I will never understand why Belichick is any different and why some Pats fans are so defensive about him.

This shouldn't be a safe space for folks to get away from a Pats discussion of any kind. It's a Pats message board and Bill's mistakes deserve to be discussed.

 

[BTTA]

I haven't been as active as I used to be with the Belichick criticisms. This thread brought me back for a moment

I come from a time where coaches in the NYFL were fair game, just like managers in baseball and coaches in hockey and bball. I will never understand why Belichick is any different and why some Pats fans are so defensive about him.

This shouldn't be a safe space for folks to get away from a Pats discussion of any kind. It's a Pats message board and Bill's mistakes deserve to be discussed.

I've never seen a poster here defend Belichick from reasonable criticism just because it is Belichick. There's tons of good conversation here about what the Pats could do more of, less of, and better. It gets met with more of the same. Everything ultimately falls on the coach, and that's not disputed.

What I've seen is knee jerk, superficial criticism that's a projection of disappointment at not winning all the time, and then attacks on anyone who defends the coach/team in the face of that.

Ian's created something for us and invited us in, and just like if it were his living room, we all have responsibilities. The fact that it is on the internet rather than in person doesn't change that. Hiding behind distance and anonymity is tempting but ultimately self destructive.

 

[p8ryts]

I haven't been as active as I used to be with the Belichick criticisms. This thread brought me back for a moment

I come from a time where coaches in the NYFL were fair game, just like managers in baseball and coaches in hockey and bball. I will never understand why Belichick is any different and why some Pats fans are so defensive about him.

This shouldn't be a safe space for folks to get away from a Pats discussion of any kind. It's a Pats message board and Bill's mistakes deserve to be discussed.

You and I are probably among the more experienced Pats fans as far as longevity goes. Seen a lot of good coaches and a lot of bad coaches saddled with poor ownership. I liked Mike Holovak, Chuck Fairbanks is underappreciated, Ron Meyers, Bill Parcells, Pete Carroll and Bill Belichick, all good coaches.
Chuck Berry took over a good team and wasn't really that great a coach. Clive Rush, the architect of the Jets Super Bowl win, wasn't ready for the Sullivans. Undecided on Saban. Poor Macpherson.
Anyway, it's okay to criticize the coach but in Patriots land its too involved with a Brady/Bill thing. To me that's irrelevant. I just know that Bill has provided some great constructed teams, innovative defensive schemes, astounding in game management and even in the last three down years, they made the playoffs once and contended to the end of the season the other two, despite flawed quarterback play and some ridiculous mistakes by players. Agreed Pat and Joe was a mistake but I consider the players complicit in the failure due to their resistance in the beginning. So its fair to be critical but some of it is venal and vindictive.
He is one of the best. Tom was one of the best. Bill was fortunate to have Tom, but Bill was smart enough to carry 4 QB's his rookie year, demonstrating how much he valued Tom, Tom was fortunate to have Bill also. Basically, Bill's coaching kept them in the game long enough for Tom's clutch play at the end.
As a long time fan I never anticipated such success. Thank you Bill, Thank You Tom. Let there be peace in the valley.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I haven't been as active as I used to be with the Belichick criticisms. This thread brought me back for a moment

I come from a time where coaches in the NYFL were fair game, just like managers in baseball and coaches in hockey and bball. I will never understand why Belichick is any different and why some Pats fans are so defensive about him.

This shouldn't be a safe space for folks to get away from a Pats discussion of any kind. It's a Pats message board and Bill's mistakes deserve to be discussed.

All coaches can be criticized, Ian does not set up safe spaces. Respecting the Patsfans community, please criticize Bill in the forums and threads set up for that. Please don't spam any random thread when you get the urge.

 

[All3Phases]

The patriots haven’t played chess without Brady, not sure they’re even playing a board game

 

[NCPATSFAN1971]

All coaches can be criticized, Ian does not set up safe spaces. Respecting the Patsfans community, please criticize Bill in the forums and threads set up for that. Please don't spam any random thread when you get the urge.

True - and there have been all kinds of requests to put the TB Vs. BB arguments in a box and bury them somewhere. BTW, the 2023 Season will be the 4th Season without TB . . .

I'm sure most people don't have to be reminded that Training Camp begins on July 26th. That's less than 2 weeks away. After Camp begins, the first Pre-Season game will come soon after and so will the first game of the season. I've been a Patriots Fan for over 50 years and have been through good, great, bad and ugly times with this team.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm excited and have guarded optimism about this season. It might be because of my very early days of Pat Fandom. I can remember when a punt executed without the center hiking the ball over the punter's head was considered a great play and remember having season tickets when losing was normal. I guess having these experiences helped me to have realistic expectations regarding the Pat's throughout the years.

However, I've also had disappointments with the team and last season was one of them. However, I try to dump any bad feelings as soon as I can mainly because I have difficulty being pissed off and happy at the same time. I also think that arguing about stuff, that I have absolutely no control over is a gigantic waste of time.

I'm onto the 2023 Season. . .

 

[1960Pats]

All coaches can be criticized, Ian does not set up safe spaces. Respecting the Patsfans community, please criticize Bill in the forums and threads set up for that. Please don't spam any random thread when you get the urge.

I should create a thread called Bill's Mistakes and we could all corral everything there. Maybe that would help.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I should create a thread called Bill's Mistakes and we could all corral everything there. Maybe that would help.

In typical fashion, it gets shut down.

1. Don't criticize Bill in threads that don't specifically call for criticizing Bill.
2. Don't create threads aiming to criticize Bill.

Now you have all these guys who were posting x1000 "football is a business and it's only about your current results and not the past" when players were cut or traded, philosophically waxing about how Bill should stay forever for sentimental reasons and posting past legacy arguments.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

In typical fashion, it gets shut down.

1. Don't criticize Bill in threads that don't specifically call for criticizing Bill.
2. Don't create threads aiming to criticize Bill.

Now you have all these guys who were posting x1000 "football is a business and it's only about your current results and not the past" when players were cut or traded, philosophically waxing about how Bill should stay forever for sentimental reasons and posting past legacy arguments.

Is it just me, or do we actually not have anywhere a "It it time to fire Bill Belichick" thread?
I don't think I actually remember one. Maybe it would be good for the detractors to have one. Damn the 6 rings, it's time for him to go!

I mean, I'm not of that opinion, but that's where a lot of our fans are coming from right now. It keeps spewing out into other threads. Fine, that can be the topic of a megathread.

Do we have that one already? Did it get shut down? Sorry, I mainly just take potshots from the sidelines on this ongoing "wahhhh booo hoooo we haven't won a Super Bowl in 4 years"-fest.

I mean, you have to be damn sure before you pull that trigger. But some of us sound like we are. Is there such a thread, and I'm just not reading?

 

[n6249c]

Is it just me, or do we actually not have anywhere a "It it time to fire Bill Belichick" thread?
I don't think I actually remember one. Maybe it would be good for the detractors to have one. Damn the 6 rings, it's time for him to go!

I mean, I'm not of that opinion, but that's where a lot of our fans are coming from right now. It keeps spewing out into other threads. Fine, that can be the topic of a megathread.

Do we have that one already? Did it get shut down? Sorry, I mainly just take potshots from the sidelines on this ongoing "wahhhh booo hoooo we haven't won a Super Bowl in 4 years"-fest.

I mean, you have to be damn sure before you pull that trigger. But some of us sound like we are. Is there such a thread, and I'm just not reading?

Every thread is that thread.