The Vinny Question answered?

[RayClay]

I was going to say something, but after five in a row, I'm letting this thread rest.

 

[FirstAndGoal]

Exactly, and that is about all that I was saying, that Vinny is there and has some input. If there are those that want to diuspute it because it was me saying it fine...that still doesnt change the fact that ,IMO, he has input, and perhaps more than we imagine. Logic says that is one of the reason he was brought in and not another QB, not just to be the number 3,but because of his NFL experience, to add input for Josh McDaniels , who has practically NO experience at all. Common sense says so.

Well NEM, I have to disagree with this. Having a brother that is a division 1 coach, having 2 people in the family (through marriage) as NFL coaches ( one was a 15 year NFL coach), I find it hard to believe that anyone but the starting quarterback has any input and it's usually just fine-tuning the plan.

In case you think I'm bullsh!tting you on the family, here's a link. Read the bio. My brother is married to one of his daughters (Kim). I can ask at Christmas if you'd like.

http://www.packers.com/team/coaches/novak_frank/

 

[FirstAndGoal]

I can also ask my brother to check with Ivan Fears in case that isn't good enough. He knows Ivan very well since he was one of my brother's coaches at Syracuse and they talk to each other.

 

[FirstAndGoal]

Here's a very simple case against it NEM. The roster is 53 players. There is no limit on coaches. They could have brought in a Joe Montana to coach if they really felt Brady needed it (doubt he would do it but.. point is the same). There is no need to waste a roster spot for a QB that can coach when you have qualified coaches and former players out there.

Vinny loves to be part of the team. Watch him smile while he's taking a knee. He knows the deal. BB is comfortable with him. That's all there is to it IMHO. Why not just make Vinny a coach and put someone else in that position instead of making him a player/coach? I know the kind of hours these coaches pull and for every meeting with players, there are 10 meetings with just the coaches. I doubt it's different for the Pats.

That's my point NEM. I'm name-dropping for a reason. What makes sense in your experience, makes no sense in mine. My family lives and breathes football and not in that wearing blue paint and going shirtless at a game way. They're part of the game. They aren't just fans and my experience with that leads me to different conclusions. What is logical to you is illogical in my experience. It's possible but so isn't the Pats calling me tomorrow to punt.

 

[RayClay]

Here's a very simple case against it NEM. The roster is 53 players. There is no limit on coaches. They could have brought in a Joe Montana to coach if they really felt Brady needed it (doubt he would do it but.. point is the same). There is no need to waste a roster spot for a QB that can coach when you have qualified coaches and former players out there.

Vinny loves to be part of the team. Watch him smile while he's taking a knee. He knows the deal. BB is comfortable with him. That's all there is to it IMHO. Why not just make Vinny a coach and put someone else in that position instead of making him a player/coach? I know the kind of hours these coaches pull and for every meeting with players, there are 10 meetings with just the coaches. I doubt it's different for the Pats.

That's my point NEM. I'm name-dropping for a reason. What makes sense in your experience, makes no sense in mine. My family lives and breathes football and not in that wearing blue paint and going shirtless at a game way. They're part of the game. They aren't just fans and my experience with that leads me to different conclusions. What is logical to you is illogical in my experience. It's possible but so isn't the Pats calling me tomorrow to punt.

I agree only in one respect. With Flutie gone, the only "QB coach" is McDaniel. He is also the OC. He's got his hands full with that job and how he can help Brady as a QB is a mystery to me.

Brady and BB are both uptight, perfectionist personalities and Vinny can provide a humorous buffer to help Brady keep loose. Also, he's the third QB.

Anyone who's followed Vinny's career knows he's not the most Cerebral guy, but he can help Brady work on things and talk about game situations.

Not exactly a coach and definitely not an offensive genius with input.

 

[FirstAndGoal]

The Pats cut out a couple of coaching positions this year and did not choose to hire people. I know someone who was up for one that got eliminated by BB. I don't believe it was the QB one either. I don't believe I ever asked what position it was.

I still don't see why Vinny couldn't have been hired as the QB coach if that was the case. Are we saying that Vinny is there to provide comic relief and that could not have been done any other way but to use up a roster spot? We could have brought in Terry Bradshaw if that's the case. He's always willing to be the straight man.

 

[FirstAndGoal]

Sorry guys, I don't buy it. Nothing tells me that your conclusions are realistic. I really don't have anything to add to that so I'll leave it at that.

 

[Battaglia]

I really feel emabrrassed sometimes when people bring this dumb argument up. Vinny is not helping the friggin offense in playcalling. Those of you who even ponder that should go join the Falcons fans, you'll fit right in.

 

[RayClay]

The Pats cut out a couple of coaching positions this year and did not choose to hire people. I know someone who was up for one that got eliminated by BB. I don't believe it was the QB one either. I don't believe I ever asked what position it was.

I still don't see why Vinny couldn't have been hired as the QB coach if that was the case. Are we saying that Vinny is there to provide comic relief and that could not have been done any other way but to use up a roster spot? We could have brought in Terry Bradshaw if that's the case. He's always willing to be the straight man.

Well he does play quarterback. And hiring an actual quarterback coach might ruin the confidence of the boy genius.

I'm sure Brady got some benefit from working with flutie and I'm sure BB could have found some younger backup QB too.

Just a thought, not a conspiracy theory.

 

[Clonamery]

Well he does play quarterback. And hiring an actual quarterback coach might ruin the confidence of the boy genius.

I'm sure Brady got some benefit from working with flutie and I'm sure BB could have found some younger backup QB too.

Just a thought, not a conspiracy theory.

You've had much, much, much better thoughts.

 

[JoeSixPat]

I really feel emabrrassed sometimes when people bring this dumb argument up. Vinny is not helping the friggin offense in playcalling. Those of you who even ponder that should go join the Falcons fans, you'll fit right in.

So you're saying you want Brady to play for the Falcons?

Quote:
Said Brady: “As quarterbacks, we spend all week talking about plays we like and plays we don’t like. That’s what we do. And he’s always right there. Why don’t we make the ‘X’ (receiver) run this route? Why don’t we do it that way.’ And a lot of times we do. He has a good big-picture view. As a quarterback you can’t just worry about yourself and a few guys around you, you have to be aware of what everyone is doing. And Vinny knows that. He sees what I see out there.â€


Again, while no one is realistically suggesting that Testeverde supplanted McDaniels as OC or is a QB coach, to say that he has "zero to minimimal" input when a.) you don't know and b.) it would be unlike Brady, Belicheck or the Patriots in general not to tap into every resource available is just plain wrong.

 

[Clonamery]

........ while no one is realistically suggesting that Testeverde supplanted McDaniels as OC or is a QB coach......

JSP, 'realistically' being the carefully chosen word. That would eliminate much of the argument if people wanted to be realistic/rationale. (Who has the time for that!?!)

TB is an inclusive type teammate so it's not hard to fathom that he wouldn't discuss football matters with his fellow QB's, at the very least informally.

 

[mikiemo83]

everyone on the roster has input to the position coach or coordinator in the Patriots system - so NEM is technically correct, the Difference is the amount of weight placed on the comment - we do not know this and can not even ASSume to.

Are we arguing a point or side sometimes?

 

[Clonamery]

everyone on the roster has input to the position coach or coordinator in the Patriots system - so NEM is technically correct, the Difference is the amount of weight placed on the comment - we do not know this and can not even ASSume to.

Are we arguing a point or side sometimes?

Stubborn is as stubborn does.........

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Stubborn is as stubborn does.........

Odd, that almost triggered a memory of a similar quote...it's on the tip of my tongue...

 

[JoeSixPat]

JSP, 'realistically' being the carefully chosen word. That would eliminate much of the argument if people wanted to be realistic/rationale. (Who has the time for that!?!)

TB is an inclusive type teammate so it's not hard to fathom that he wouldn't discuss football matters with his fellow QB's, at the very least informally.

"Realistically" is a word chosen to factor in those who actually DO think Vinny T is the defacto OC. He's not. Nor is he a QB coach.

As far as Brady's quotes I just find it funny that everytime the QB in question makes statements about Testeverde's involvement, everyone discounts it.

They are so sure of their statements that he has NO involvement whatsoever... zero, nada, that they just can't accept the fact that's not the case, even when Brady states otherwise on multiple occasions.

But the fact remains that Testeverde IS familiar with many elements of the AFC East defenses and personnel, as well as some of the other teams in the NFL - and to think that he'd be told to sit down and shut up doesn't make sense - yet that's what many seem to be suggesting is going on.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I amnot the only one with this opinion..but you sleem to be of the opinion that he is not giving input, and exactly what proof do you have of that. I assume then, that you spend thrfee hours watching Vinny rather than watching the game, right. And during those three hours he never converses with Brady of McDaniels, right? So therefore you can tell us all that you are right, right? Your opinion is no better, or no worse, than mine, or anyone elses..and thats all they are, opinions. So, dont go telling me how much my opinion is baseless unless you say that yours is, too.

One more time.
I sat right behind the Pats bench in the front row Sec 110 row 1 seat 18 for the Bears game which was the point of discussion in the old post you quoted.
It's easy to watch a play (takes seconds) and flip your gaze to the players. I love the opportunity to feel like I'm on the field with the players. Would that I could read BB's lips when he talks to the D. But I digress...

Vinnie talks with Cassel, stands next to him, not the OC or Brady, the vast majority of the game. If the Pats are in a close game, after talking with Josh and BB (Cassell & Vinnie are rarely involved; the few time I see them there they are looking on, not talking...and that was not at the Bears game), Brady spends most of the defense time pacing, walking alone away from the offense to the end of the defense's bench and then warming up.
If the Pats are ahead and the game ending, he spends a higher % of time chatting with players, siting with the OL and joking with WRs/RBs.

My opinion of what happens during the game is based on those observational facts.
Yours is based on pure conjecture driven by a strange obsession with the perceived inadequacies of OCs (Zampeze, then Weis, now McDaniels).

 

[RayClay]

You've had much, much, much better thoughts.

I'll take that as a complement.

So why didn't we sign an under 40 QB or keep the roster spot?

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I'll take that as a complement.

So why didn't we sign an under 40 QB or keep the roster spot?

Availability.

 

[mikiemo83]

I'll take that as a complement.

So why didn't we sign an under 40 QB or keep the roster spot?

in my opinion the reason Vinnie was brought in is because he is a capable back-up like Doug was, knows th esystem and he gives BB a chance to do something he truely enjoys, help a player break a Football record

Vinnie is tied for most consecutive seasons with a TD pass at 19, If the Pats win or Jets lose this week look for Vinnie to get the chance to Break the record.

If not, much like Doug getting his Drop Kick, beware of Vinnie being Number 2 on the depth chart and the holder for Field goals and Extra points - a fake could be in the works


20 years with a TD pass is quite a thing - BB helps Vinnie get it this season