The Ohrnberger Mystery,,

[DaBruinz]

Those were Hobbs' words, not mine.

Ellis Hobbs analysis - Reiss' Pieces - Boston.com

Umm.. I was questioning YOUR conclusion. BB's words during his press conference were that, heading into draft weekend, he had no intention of trading Hobbs. YOU are the one who said:

They were planning on moving him for a while, they needed someone to lose out on a CB in the draft and the Patriots offered him at a price that was not so bad for the new team...Philly bit.

Also, Philly contacted the Patriots, not the other way around.

EDIT: No one is "dismissing" Hobbs "feeling". We are dismissing your conclusion that the Patriots had intentions prior to draft weekend of trading him when BB said otherwise.

One source I'm reading has him being groomed for 2010, which would make sense for them with how many wide receivers they have on the roster.

Patriots Draft Brandon Tate for 2010 --NFL FanHouse

Adding that not about Butler made my point about him no longer being needed with Butler being a returner. Hobbs had his role filled, he was expendable.

There are such things as injuries. And the Patriots seem to experience a LOT of them every year to their DBs.

As for Fanhouse, yes, I know what is being said. However, the Pats need someone for returns this year. They are going to have to piecemeal it unless someone astounds them. Tate could do that if he's healthy. But word is that the ACL/MCL situation will, most likely, land him on the PUP to start the year or possibly the IR.

The Patriots don't have that many WRs on the roster currently. One year they went into TC with 13. So, having 7 (Moss, Welker, Galloway, Lewis, Aiken, Edelman, Tate) isn't all that many. Even if you were to include Ventrone and Slater, its still not that many.

 

[VJCPatriot]

So if the picks are at every 10 minutes, total guess on my part, they had almost 3 hours from Luigs to Ohrnberger, to make the trade.

Is that the time per pick in the fourth round??

I believe it's 5 minutes per pick on day 2. I think it should be less. Maybe 2 minutes per pick once you get past rounds 3-4. Here's a nice table.

NFL Draft Basics - Time Limits by Round

 

[efin98]

Umm.. I was questioning YOUR conclusion. BB's words during his press conference were that, heading into draft weekend, he had no intention of trading Hobbs. YOU are the one who said:



Also, Philly contacted the Patriots, not the other way around.

EDIT: No one is "dismissing" Hobbs "feeling". We are dismissing your conclusion that the Patriots had intentions prior to draft weekend of trading him when BB said otherwise.



There are such things as injuries. And the Patriots seem to experience a LOT of them every year to their DBs.

As for Fanhouse, yes, I know what is being said. However, the Pats need someone for returns this year. They are going to have to piecemeal it unless someone astounds them. Tate could do that if he's healthy. But word is that the ACL/MCL situation will, most likely, land him on the PUP to start the year or possibly the IR.

The Patriots don't have that many WRs on the roster currently. One year they went into TC with 13. So, having 7 (Moss, Welker, Galloway, Lewis, Aiken, Edelman, Tate) isn't all that many. Even if you were to include Ventrone and Slater, its still not that many.

Draw your own conclusion, I'll draw mine and leave it at that.

 

[dryheat44]

I think you're all putting way too much thought into this.

1) Belichick didn't expect Butler to be there when he was picked.
2) Butler was there.
3) Belichick believes Butler is too good a football player to pass up at that spot, regardless of team composition.
4) Belichick drafts Butler.
5) Belichick now has a numbers problem at CB, with four draft picks from the past three drafts, plus two vets signed in the offseason.
6) Ellis Hobbs is set to make more money than any other cornerback on the roster.
7) Belichick likely thinks he's going to lose Hobbs when he gets to UFA.
8) Hobbs has the most trade value of the cornerbacks.
9) Belichick solves the logjam by trading Hobbs, freeing up something like 2.3 million in cap room.

Occam's razor. As devious as we know Belichick to be, sometimes the simplest explanation is the best one. If you hear the sound of hooves coming down the street, it's probably not zebras. Could he have been traded for a better pick at another time? Probably, but like Cassell, sometimes it's a matter of timing instead of waiting until the value is at its highest.

 

[sg14]

What else do I have to do??

I think you're all putting way too much thought into this.

 

[patsfaninpa]

I think you're all putting way too much thought into this.

1) Belichick didn't expect Butler to be there when he was picked.
2) Butler was there.
3) Belichick believes Butler is too good a football player to pass up at that spot, regardless of team composition.
4) Belichick drafts Butler.
5) Belichick now has a numbers problem at CB, with four draft picks from the past three drafts, plus two vets signed in the offseason.
6) Ellis Hobbs is set to make more money than any other cornerback on the roster.
7) Belichick likely thinks he's going to lose Hobbs when he gets to UFA.
8) Hobbs has the most trade value of the cornerbacks.
9) Belichick solves the logjam by trading Hobbs, freeing up something like 2.3 million in cap room.

Occam's razor. As devious as we know Belichick to be, sometimes the simplest explanation is the best one. If you hear the sound of hooves coming down the street, it's probably not zebras. Could he have been traded for a better pick at another time? Probably, but like Cassell, sometimes it's a matter of timing instead of waiting until the value is at its highest.

Excellent points. I think he just looked at Hobbs performance on the field after the season was over. And, thought. What will we miss? Just his kickoff return ability. He really has been a liability in coverage. If you watch the games, you know that. Wheatley and Butler are going to push Bodden and Springs. Should be an interesting camp.

 

[PatsFan37]

Excellent points. I think he just looked at Hobbs performance on the field after the season was over. And, thought. What will we miss? Just his kickoff return ability. He really has been a liability in coverage. If you watch the games, you know that. Wheatley and Butler are going to push Bodden and Springs. Should be an interesting camp.

Why does everyone always forget Wilhite? Incredibly fast, great special teams play for a rookie. Yeah, I know, lotsa cornerbacks, lotsa competition. Man oh man, do I have to make Wilhite a binkie all by myself?

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Why does everyone always forget Wilhite? Incredibly fast, great special teams play for a rookie. Yeah, I know, lotsa cornerbacks, lotsa competition. Man oh man, do I have to make Wilhite a binkie all by myself?

So it would seem.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

Why does everyone always forget Wilhite? Incredibly fast, great special teams play for a rookie. Yeah, I know, lotsa cornerbacks, lotsa competition. Man oh man, do I have to make Wilhite a binkie all by myself?

Hey, I'm with you! He might not be the best player in the world, but he did show admirable improvement over the season. Compare his play against the Colts, where he got beat on a fade route in the end zone by Gonzales to his play in the last couple games, where instead of incorrect positioning, he was breaking up passes. Not to mention he notched his first career interception. (Against the Raiders, so it maybe only counts as a half interception. )

 

[sg14]

Peter King and Mike Reiss put the period on this story,,

Revisiting Hobbs for two fifth-rounders - Reiss' Pieces - Boston.com

Summary, Eagles started the talks, BB said No, then thought about it,, Oh I'll trade Ellis for Orhnberger (or someone equivalent).

 

[klinefan]

The mystery to me is why they drafted an UDFA in the 4th round. 4th round picks are too valuable to waste.

They also drafted a 1 gap NT...don't know where he's going to go. Bussey most had as an UDFA too.

I would have liked to see they grab Jarron Gilbert in the 2nd, Vollmer in the 3rd, and Tate with Ornberger's pick.

I know, IBBWT, but a lot of the OL haven't done so well lately.

I wonder about Wesley Britt too...where is he? I think he was the SEC OL of the year and now he's JAG?

 

[BelichickFan]

They also drafted a 1 gap NT...don't know where he's going to go.

They did that a few years ago too. Some guy named Vince.

 

[BelichickFan]

Bussey most had as an UDFA too.

I would have liked to see they grab Jarron Gilbert in the 2nd, Vollmer in the 3rd, and Tate with Ornberger's pick.

It would be great to get everyone a round later. But we don't know where they were going. Reiss says he's heard others were interested in Vollmer around where we took him. Just because Pro Football Weekly and NFL Draft Scout think they're going to be around later doesn't mean they will be.

That said, I expect several of the later picks to be cut. Vollmer and Ohrnberger not do much, the failure OL we've had recently were later picks than them.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

That said, I expect several of the later picks to be cut. Vollmer and Ohrnberger not do much, the failure OL we've had recently were later picks than them.

I hope you're not counting the aberration that was the 2007 draft (lots of late draft picks, nowhere to put them).

BTW, to the OP: "The Ohrnberger Mystery" would be a typical Robert Ludlum title, not Tom Clancy.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Peter King and Mike Reiss put the period on this story,,

Revisiting Hobbs for two fifth-rounders - Reiss' Pieces - Boston.com

Summary, Eagles started the talks, BB said No, then thought about it,, Oh I'll trade Ellis for Orhnberger (or someone equivalent).

Put another way, Hobbs = Ohrnberger OG + Ingram LS. It's a 2 for 1 that improves the team in the long run. Especially considering how deep the Pats are at CB, Hobbs was expendable.

 

[BelichickFan]

I hope you're not counting the aberration that was the 2007 draft (lots of late draft picks, nowhere to put them).

There's a big drop to the draft positions of the Oldenbergs. O'Callaghan is the best comp for Ohrnberger but he's a little different as he was draft with injury concerns. We don't have many 4th round comps with OL so for me to assume everything will be OK is faulty but Ohrnberger was drafted a good bit higher than the Oldenberg, Hilliard, Elgin types.

 

[dryheat44]

Put another way, Hobbs = Ohrnberger OG + Ingram LS. It's a 2 for 1 that improves the team in the long run. Especially considering how deep the Pats are at CB, Hobbs was expendable.

Top put it another, still more accurate, way, One season of Hobbs = Ohrnberger + Ingram + 2.4 million in cap room, 1.5 of which was used on Alex Smith.

One year of Hobbs + 2010 5th round pick = Ohrnberger and Ingram on rookie deals, One year of Alex Smith, and 900,000 in cap space minus O & I's cap hits.

 

[captain stone]

Why does everyone always forget Wilhite? Incredibly fast, great special teams play for a rookie. Yeah, I know, lotsa cornerbacks, lotsa competition. Man oh man, do I have to make Wilhite a binkie all by myself?

Great ST play? Leon Washington scores on his KO return because lil' Johnny Wilhite completely effs-up his coverage by taking the wrong angle & allowing himself to be blocked away from the return lane.

Wilhite as a binky? You can have him.

 

[captain stone]

Hey, I'm with you! He might not be the best player in the world, but he did show admirable improvement over the season. Compare his play against the Colts, where he got beat on a fade route in the end zone by Gonzales to his play in the last couple games, where instead of incorrect positioning, he was breaking up passes. Not to mention he notched his first career interception. (Against the Raiders, so it maybe only counts as a half interception. )

I believe that Gonzales beat the even more useless Mikey Richardson for that TD.

 

[mgteich]

I don't see the issue with regard to drafting Ohrenberger. He was likely the best player by far on the patriot board at a position of need. If we followed the best of the player lists, we might have considered the pick at #124 a slam dunk. As I recall, Gosselin had Ohrenberger at the #80 best player in the draft.

I agree that we might have drafted Sidbury, but we chose McKenzie instead at 97. I would have been fine with Sidbury instead of McKenzie, but Belichick made a reasonable choice.

There's a big drop to the draft positions of the Oldenbergs. O'Callaghan is the best comp for Ohrnberger but he's a little different as he was draft with injury concerns. We don't have many 4th round comps with OL so for me to assume everything will be OK is faulty but Ohrnberger was drafted a good bit higher than the Oldenberg, Hilliard, Elgin types.