The official Heat-Celtics Eastern Conference semifinal thread

[BradyManny]

Agreed re Pierce and the ref who tossed him, also re unnecessary fouls and positioning.

OT: re. refs and Wade / Garnett, and the NBA in general, though -- Wade took 3 steps. If you still have the game recorded, check it out. I don't blame Garnett for looking foolish. I absoutely hate today's NBA. I get it when you let a guy take an extra step on a breakaway, I guess, as it doesn't really affect the play. And I get it when you then call the travel 20 feet out when the guy steps a bit early, as that slight time difference on the 1st step really can give the offensive player a significant advantage. But if that's the reasoning, you can't let a guy take an extra step to change directions just because you call it a "great crossover." It's a travel.

He traveled but it happened so fast (he took two quick steps while picking up his dribble) that I actually don't expect refs to call that. Especially not nowadays...sadly.

 

[BradyManny]

Yeah... that wasn't a travel. He put the ball on the ground, picked it up, took one step to his right, took one step to his left, and on that step he jumped off of his left foot and put it in.

Watch it yourself if you don't believe me: YouTube - Dwyane Wade Crosses Over Kevin Garnett + And1

Actually, in full speed it may not look like a travel, but if you pause it at his last dribble: he then proceeds to take a step on his left foot, then step to his right foot, then steps (rather leaps) back onto his left, then jumps into the air. It's a blatant travel in slow-motion. It just happened too fast for anyone to notice.

 

[bigcountry75]

I am just curious about something.....A lot of the time when Lebron goes to the basket, he dip his shoulder into the defensive player to get the foul call....Ok so the whistle blows for a foul but right after the defensive foul is called Lebron will use his off arm to keep the player from getting to the ball so he can finish and try for the 3 point play....Can the refs call an offensive foul on him after they have called the initial defensive foul or is it anything goes after the foul is whistled? He does this all the time and that helps him finish around the hoop quite a bit....

 

[BradyManny]

I am just curious about something.....A lot of the time when Lebron goes to the basket, he dip his shoulder into the defensive player to get the foul call....Ok so the whistle blows for a foul but right after the defensive foul is called Lebron will use his off arm to keep the player from getting to the ball so he can finish and try for the 3 point play....Can the refs call an offensive foul on him after they have called the initial defensive foul or is it anything goes after the foul is whistled? He does this all the time and that helps him finish around the hoop quite a bit....

Here's the NBA's extremely clear way of defining a charge...

NBA.com - BLOCK-CHARGE

Here's the key one that describes a charge:

If an offensive player causes contact with a defensive player who has estab-lished a legal position, an offensive foul shall be called and no points may be scored.

The bottom line is that Lebron's shoulder dip & plow through the opponent is not at all legal. Yet, it's his signature offensive move. To his credit, sometimes he adds in a blatant push-off, which while also horribly illegal was perfected by Jordan years ago, so at least there's some precedence on that.

No other player in the NBA is allowed to simply run through defensive players that have position, save for King James (maybe Shaq in his prime). That's why guarding him is so tough. You're taught technique and position - it means nothing with James. He can lower his shoulder and plow through you and any effort you put up to get in his way - regardless of your position - will result in a foul called on you as a defender.

It's why I hate the guy. In a lot of ways, he's a complete fraud of a player. I am sure there were other Lebron James out there decades ago before the rule book on traveling and offensive fouls was thrown in the trash can - and that kid probably had to give up basketball and take up another sport where he could simply just use his size to his advantage.

 

[Kontradiction]

Thought this was interesting...

Game 1:
Boston - 24 fouls
Miami - 21 fouls

Game 2:
Boston - 24 fouls
Miami - 22 fouls

With how much Miami has been taking it to the hole, as opposed to Boston who have been settling for more jump shots, I would expect the foul numbers to be a lot more for the Celtics. Turns out the foul calls have actually been pretty even throughout the series.

 

[chicowalker]

Here's the NBA's extremely clear way of defining a charge......

Bigcountry a different question, though. (One I don't know the answer to.) What happens in a continuation after he is fouled?

On one hand, I'm almost positive a goaltend on the subsequent shot is still a goaltend and the bucket counts. On the other, I'm pretty sure a 2nd foul on the player isn't a foul on the defensive team. (I'm pretty sure of both because I think both have come up in Celts games in recent months.)

I don't know what happens if the ballhandler commits an offensive foul at that point, though. Common sense would say the basket is waived off, no foul on the ballhandler and 2 shots. But I don't know if that's the case.

 

[bigcountry75]

Bigcountry a different question, though. (One I don't know the answer to.) What happens in a continuation after he is fouled?

On one hand, I'm almost positive a goaltend on the subsequent shot is still a goaltend and the bucket counts. On the other, I'm pretty sure a 2nd foul on the player isn't a foul on the defensive team. (I'm pretty sure of both because I think both have come up in Celts games in recent months.)

I don't know what happens if the ballhandler commits an offensive foul at that point, though. Common sense would say the basket is waived off, no foul on the ballhandler and 2 shots. But I don't know if that's the case.

Well the reason I even brought this up is because if they can't call another foul after the initial defensive foul is called then I would club Lebron (going for the ball though as to not make it blatantly obvious) and not allow him to get the hoop as well....It just seems to me that after they call the initial foul than LBJ can travel, cause an offensive foul and pretty much do whatever he wants to get his shot off and a chance at a 3 point play....

BradyManning....That is what is so frustrating about his game is that his jump shot is so-so and if he wasn't able to run through everyone in his way like a bull in a china shop then he would be a good player with great athleticism...Not considered one of the best in the league....It's just like Reggie Millers leg kick though as the refs have to know what he does and just don't put a stop to it because he is LBJ and that is total Horse****....

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

Lebron doesn't deserve to win this...that arrogant **** is going to get what's coming to him

 

[ausbacker]

Where in the hell is the Celtics intensity and ability to lift? Unless the roster moves fit into some sort of long term strategy by Ainge he's butchered a championship calibre roster as things stand right now.

So frustrating but C'MON Celtics.

 

[IcyPatriot]

Not looking good ... age not coming before beauty this time.

 

[ausbacker]

Not looking good ... age not coming before beauty this time.

It's so frustrating Icy, especially when you see what this team is capable of when they switch on mentally.

 

[Satchboogie3]

That looks like a dislocated shoulder. If so, thats it, were done. No chance they can even get past the heat without rondo. Damn, why can't Boston sports catch any breaks anymore?

 

[bigcountry75]

Wade is such a dirty *****....I am almost hoping he breaks his neck before Lebrick does....I really would have Shaq just clothesline the **** out of wade for playing like a ******* ****....This is getting ridiculous....He wasn't making a play on the ball and took out rondo and it's just a personal foul? WTF....But J O'neal steps in front of James Jones and it's a flagrant foul??????

 

[ausbacker]

Wade is such a dirty *****....I am almost hoping he breaks his neck before Lebrick does....I really would have Shaq just clothesline the **** out of wade for playing like a ******* ****....This is getting ridiculous....He wasn't making a play on the ball and took out rondo and it's just a personal foul? WTF....But J O'neal steps in front of James Jones and it's a flagrant foul??????

Someone needs to punch that dirty **** in the mouth.

 

[Mix]

Shaq should end Wades season after that ***** move.

 

[ausbacker]

Jeff Green showing life and energy? Where the hell has he been hiding this?

 

[bigcountry75]

Jeff Green showing life and energy? Where the hell has he been hiding this?

This is the Jeff Green I have been defending the whole time in my backing of the Perkins trade...It's about time he started playing like it and if he keeps this up I feel good about our chances....

 

[ausbacker]

This is the Jeff Green I have been defending the whole time in my backing of the Perkins trade...It's about time he started playing like it and if he keeps this up I feel good about our chances....

It's been a James Posey like performance.. which has been rather encouraging. Let's hope he can bring it consistently.

 

[scout]

This is the Jeff Green I have been defending the whole time in my backing of the Perkins trade...It's about time he started playing like it and if he keeps this up I feel good about our chances....

I caught the end of the Memphis/Ok. game. I noticed Perkins was on the bench. Did he foul out?

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

Big time momentum changer game right there


Rondo is a champ