The official Heat-Celtics Eastern Conference semifinal thread

[Brady_to_Moss]

It's pretty funny that the series now rides on shaq..if he can even give them 10 min a game..it would help SO much


I think they will deff win game 3 now...game 4 is going to be a battle

 

[PatsFanInEaglesLand]

I knew this game wasn't going to go well when LeBron trucked Rondo at the foul line line and there was no call.

 

[BradyManny]

The refs were a non-factor tonite - they were typically inconsistent and shoddy, but it had no outcome on the game. We had them right where we wanted at 80-80 and fell completely flat.

We can't win when half the team is playing poorly.

Our only hope is Shaq on that 2nd unit, protecting the paint. JO is actually far better than I would've hoped as a starter - not that I expect that to last long. But when we go small with Big Baby in there as a 5, it's just not going to cut it, I think he was -15 tonite. Shaq can at least get in the way and get some rebounds.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

The refs were a non-factor tonite - they were typically inconsistent and shoddy, but it had no outcome on the game. We had them right where we wanted at 80-80 and fell completely flat.

We can't win when half the team is playing poorly.

Our only hope is Shaq on that 2nd unit, protecting the paint. JO is actually far better than I would've hoped as a starter - not that I expect that to last long. But when we go small with Big Baby in there as a 5, it's just not going to cut it, I think he was -15 tonite. Shaq can at least get in the way and get some rebounds.

JO has done amazing these playoffs..i am ready to dump big baby..got he sucks..3 trips to rim..all 3 misses..

 

[Kontradiction]

I knew this game wasn't going to go well when LeBron trucked Rondo at the foul line line and there was no call.

You cannot be serious. I saw Rondo LITERALLY hug LeBron during this game as LeBron was going up for a rebound with no call. I then saw the James Jones foul at the end of the first half which was as rinky-dink as it gets. The officiating was MUCH more fair than it was in the first game and the Celtics were just simply beaten. The Heat came out tonight and simply looked like the younger, more athletic team. They had more energy in the paint and had the younger legs (the Wade juke on Garnett, then Wade breaking Ray Allen's ankles). That LeBron spin move was no foul.

HAVING SAID THAT, Boston has never been the more athletic team of the two. Not when they were beating the Heat in the regular season. And that has never been the contention of the multiple debates that have ensued around here following Celtics victories over the Heat. Boston has always had the size advantage over the Heat. That's where youth and athleticism doesn't mean a thing. In this series, the Celts don't have that and it's shown. I said before the series and I'll say it again: without Shaq or Perk, the Heat are the better team. WITH them, the Celtics are superior. If Boston had either of those guys, I would expect it to be 2-0 Celts with the series headed back to Miami. Instead, the Celtics are in their first 0-2 deficit since 2004 (where they got swept by the Pacers) and are on their way back to Boston to try to take care of business at home. They've only come back to win a series after facing an 0-2 deficit once... and that was in 1969 against the Lakers.

I sincerely hope you guys don't think I'm talking sh!t since I'm not. Don't forget that I'm also a Pats and Sox fan. I know not to talk sh!t until the fat lady sings on the big game. I'm simply being real here. On top of that, I respect the Celtics, their organization, and their history (on top of being the team representing the area I was born in) way too much to simply mouth off after this. But, in being real, I will tell you that the Heat's MVP in this series isn't wearing a Heat uniform, and nor is he even involved in the Heat organization. For that matter, he isn't even a fan. The Heat's MVP thus far in this series is none other than Danny Ainge for making the bone-headed decision to trade Perkins to the Thunder and, in turn, rely on Shaquille O'Neal's health.

 

[Kontradiction]

I stopped reading after this. Nothing massive about having your best player sent off in the middle of a comeback without reasonable cause eh Kontra.

Pierce was sent out for what he said. With the way the NBA has changed the rules regarding technical fouls, Pierce should have known better to start talking sh!t after he got T'd up for a headbutt on James Jones. He couldn't control himself and opened his mouth. The result was a second technical on Pierce which resulted in an ejection. Pierce had over 80 games to realize that the ref's were a little harder on technical fouls than before. If he didn't, then that's his fault.

 

[ausbacker]

Pierce was sent out for what he said. With the way the NBA has changed the rules regarding technical fouls, Pierce should have known better to start talking sh!t after he got T'd up for a headbutt on James Jones. He couldn't control himself and opened his mouth. The result was a second technical on Pierce which resulted in an ejection. Pierce had over 80 games to realize that the ref's were a little harder on technical fouls than before. If he didn't, then that's his fault.

Don't attempt to sell me Kontra, you know Pierce shouldn't have been sent off. There is no way in hell the ref didn't blow that call and let the occasion get the better of him. It was a ridiculous decision and one which you benefited from.

As for the series. Miami is comprehensively outplaying the Celtics.. and the Celtics have shown no intensity to match. I won't be surprised to see this over quickly.

 

[Kontradiction]

Don't attempt to sell me Kontra, you know Pierce shouldn't have been sent off. There is no way in hell the ref didn't blow that call and let the occasion get the better of him. It was a ridiculous decision and one which you benefited from.

As for the series. Miami is comprehensively outplaying the Celtics.. and the Celtics have shown no intensity to match. I won't be surprised to see this over quickly.

Remind me again about which great coach in sports today preaches situational awareness to his team? Oh yeah, that's Bill Belichick. In that moment, Pierce should have realized that the refs were calling a tight game, and should have known the technical foul rules all year long. If you just got T'd up 59 seconds ago, you probably shouldn't open your mouth and say some foul stuff to the other team. Pierce should have expected to get thrown out after that. Poor, poor situational awareness. Boston fans, more than anyone, should understand that.

 

[ausbacker]

Remind me again about which great coach in sports today preaches situational awareness to his team? Oh yeah, that's Bill Belichick. In that moment, Pierce should have realized that the refs were calling a tight game, and should have known the technical foul rules all year long. If you just got T'd up 59 seconds ago, you probably shouldn't open your mouth and say some foul stuff to the other team. Pierce should have expected to get thrown out after that. Poor, poor situational awareness. Boston fans, more than anyone, should understand that.

Oh bullshît. You don't get thrown out in the playoffs for talking trash. You just don't.

 

[BradyManny]

It's a fair point. Belichick would absolutely blame Pierce for not knowing the rules - the absurd, laughable rules - and saying one of those key words that gets you kicked out the game. The NBA has turned into Kindergarten. Wow. Nevertheless, you have to know the rules and play by them.

So I do agree Pierce should've known better.

That does not justify the call. The ref should've known better as well.

The game is bigger than these refs. They can let a swear-word go when Wade just flagrantly launched his body at Paul Pierce. If they were consistent and by the book as they were on Pierce's ejection, then Wade would've at the very least received a flagrant for his cheap shot.

All I want from the refs is to be consistent. If they suck, then suck consistently.

Last nite they tended to suck consistently.

I still think Miami gets away with much more physicality than Boston does, but I think that's part of how the teams are made up now. We gave up that edge when we shipped Perk and lost Shaq to injury. Z, Joel Anthony, Bosh and Lebron consistently throw their bodies around defending the hoop & rebounding and force an awful lot of contact but they don't get called for fouls. Why? Because they were in better position and have more control of their bodies then the Celtics players - they can get away with that physical play. Look at KG's foul on Wade when Wade broke his ankles to end the first quarter. It was a stupid, unnecessary, useless reach b/c he was out of position. The foul had absolutely no bearing on the play, yet he made the refs call it by being so obvious.

The Celts used to have a guy who was in position, could play physical, and while he got called for a lot of fouls, he made them count and made opposing players remember that foul. Of course, that guy was traded for a backup 5 who hardly plays and a out-of-place swing who is our 7th man. Good value, Ainge.

 

[Kontradiction]

Oh bullshît. You don't get thrown out in the playoffs for talking trash. You just don't.

You do with the new technical rules that were installed before the season ended. Are they garbage rules? Sure. But they're still the rules. Pierce should have kept his mouth shut and he would have still been in the game. He had over 80 games to learn the new rules and learn how to control his temper. He didn't and he was gone.

It's a fair point. Belichick would absolutely blame Pierce for not knowing the rules - the absurd, laughable rules - and saying one of those key words that gets you kicked out the game. The NBA has turned into Kindergarten. Wow. Nevertheless, you have to know the rules and play by them.

So I do agree Pierce should've known better.

That does not justify the call. The ref should've known better as well.

The game is bigger than these refs. They can let a swear-word go when Wade just flagrantly launched his body at Paul Pierce. If they were consistent and by the book as they were on Pierce's ejection, then Wade would've at the very least received a flagrant for his cheap shot.

All I want from the refs is to be consistent. If they suck, then suck consistently.

Last nite they tended to suck consistently.

I still think Miami gets away with much more physicality than Boston does, but I think that's part of how the teams are made up now. We gave up that edge when we shipped Perk and lost Shaq to injury. Z, Joel Anthony, Bosh and Lebron consistently throw their bodies around defending the hoop & rebounding and force an awful lot of contact but they don't get called for fouls. Why? Because they were in better position and have more control of their bodies then the Celtics players - they can get away with that physical play. Look at KG's foul on Wade when Wade broke his ankles to end the first quarter. It was a stupid, unnecessary, useless reach b/c he was out of position. The foul had absolutely no bearing on the play, yet he made the refs call it by being so obvious.

The Celts used to have a guy who was in position, could play physical, and while he got called for a lot of fouls, he made them count and made opposing players remember that foul. Of course, that guy was traded for a backup 5 who hardly plays and a out-of-place swing who is our 7th man. Good value, Ainge.

Kindergarten is putting it lightly. The NBA began it's own ****ification with those rules.

 

[chicowalker]

It's a fair point. Belichick would absolutely blame Pierce for not knowing the rules - the absurd, laughable rules - and saying one of those key words that gets you kicked out the game. The NBA has turned into Kindergarten. Wow. Nevertheless, you have to know the rules and play by them.

So I do agree Pierce should've known better.

That does not justify the call. The ref should've known better as well.

The game is bigger than these refs. They can let a swear-word go when Wade just flagrantly launched his body at Paul Pierce. If they were consistent and by the book as they were on Pierce's ejection, then Wade would've at the very least received a flagrant for his cheap shot.

All I want from the refs is to be consistent. If they suck, then suck consistently.

Last nite they tended to suck consistently.

I still think Miami gets away with much more physicality than Boston does, but I think that's part of how the teams are made up now. We gave up that edge when we shipped Perk and lost Shaq to injury. Z, Joel Anthony, Bosh and Lebron consistently throw their bodies around defending the hoop & rebounding and force an awful lot of contact but they don't get called for fouls. Why? Because they were in better position and have more control of their bodies then the Celtics players - they can get away with that physical play. Look at KG's foul on Wade when Wade broke his ankles to end the first quarter. It was a stupid, unnecessary, useless reach b/c he was out of position. The foul had absolutely no bearing on the play, yet he made the refs call it by being so obvious.

The Celts used to have a guy who was in position, could play physical, and while he got called for a lot of fouls, he made them count and made opposing players remember that foul. Of course, that guy was traded for a backup 5 who hardly plays and a out-of-place swing who is our 7th man. Good value, Ainge.

Agreed re Pierce and the ref who tossed him, also re unnecessary fouls and positioning.

OT: re. refs and Wade / Garnett, and the NBA in general, though -- Wade took 3 steps. If you still have the game recorded, check it out. I don't blame Garnett for looking foolish. I absoutely hate today's NBA. I get it when you let a guy take an extra step on a breakaway, I guess, as it doesn't really affect the play. And I get it when you then call the travel 20 feet out when the guy steps a bit early, as that slight time difference on the 1st step really can give the offensive player a significant advantage. But if that's the reasoning, you can't let a guy take an extra step to change directions just because you call it a "great crossover." It's a travel.

 

[PatsFanInEaglesLand]

Agreed re Pierce and the ref who tossed him, also re unnecessary fouls and positioning.

OT: re. refs and Wade / Garnett, and the NBA in general, though -- Wade took 3 steps. If you still have the game recorded, check it out. I don't blame Garnett for looking foolish. I absoutely hate today's NBA. I get it when you let a guy take an extra step on a breakaway, I guess, as it doesn't really affect the play. And I get it when you then call the travel 20 feet out when the guy steps a bit early, as that slight time difference on the 1st step really can give the offensive player a significant advantage. But if that's the reasoning, you can't let a guy take an extra step to change directions just because you call it a "great crossover." It's a travel.

The "Eruo" step is a walk, just as LeBron's "crab" dribble is also.

32 foul shots for 3 drama queens on Miami, 4 for Pierce, Allen and Garnett.

 

[Kontradiction]

Agreed re Pierce and the ref who tossed him, also re unnecessary fouls and positioning.

OT: re. refs and Wade / Garnett, and the NBA in general, though -- Wade took 3 steps. If you still have the game recorded, check it out. I don't blame Garnett for looking foolish. I absoutely hate today's NBA. I get it when you let a guy take an extra step on a breakaway, I guess, as it doesn't really affect the play. And I get it when you then call the travel 20 feet out when the guy steps a bit early, as that slight time difference on the 1st step really can give the offensive player a significant advantage. But if that's the reasoning, you can't let a guy take an extra step to change directions just because you call it a "great crossover." It's a travel.

Yeah... that wasn't a travel. He put the ball on the ground, picked it up, took one step to his right, took one step to his left, and on that step he jumped off of his left foot and put it in.

Watch it yourself if you don't believe me: YouTube - Dwyane Wade Crosses Over Kevin Garnett + And1

 

[chicowalker]

The "Eruo" step is a walk, just as LeBron's "crab" dribble is also.

32 foul shots for 3 drama queens on Miami, 4 for Pierce, Allen and Garnett.

I didn't really watch yesterday's game because I inadvertently learned of the result (on west coast, so often wind up recording to watch in evening), but the FT #s don't shock me if the Celts weren't playing aggressively. Pierce hurts himself by always looking for the foul call instead of finishing, imo; I think refs dislike him because of it, and I have little doubt that hurts him and the club.

 

[chicowalker]

Yeah... that wasn't a travel. He put the ball on the ground, picked it up, took one step to his right, took one step to his left, and on that step he jumped off of his left foot and put it in.

Watch it yourself if you don't believe me: YouTube - Dwyane Wade Crosses Over Kevin Garnett + And1

I watched it a few times on my dvr, where I can go frame-by-frame, and counted 3. If you know how to do that on youtube, I'd gladly look again to see if your description is in fact correct.

Also, it's possible that what he did conforms to the newer NBA rules on traveling, which means that it's not a travel -- anymore. But that goes to my opinion about the today's NBA. Picking up a dribble, taking a step in one direction and then taking another step in a different direction shouldn't be legal just as picking up one's pivot foot early, before the dribble, shouldn't legal -- it gives the ballhandler and unfair advantage that dribbling / traveling rules are supposed to prevent.

 

[PatsFanInEaglesLand]

Yeah... that wasn't a travel. He put the ball on the ground, picked it up, took one step to his right, took one step to his left, and on that step he jumped off of his left foot and put it in.

Watch it yourself if you don't believe me: YouTube - Dwyane Wade Crosses Over Kevin Garnett + And1

Not only was it a walk, grazing a guys hip with your hand is not a foul either.

 

[PatsFanInEaglesLand]

I didn't really watch yesterday's game because I inadvertently learned of the result (on west coast, so often wind up recording to watch in evening), but the FT #s don't shock me if the Celts weren't playing aggressively. Pierce hurts himself by always looking for the foul call instead of finishing, imo; I think refs dislike him because of it, and I have little doubt that hurts him and the club.

I totally agree with that, but in fairness to Pierce, Lebron and Wade do the same thing, but get the call with less contact.

 

[chicowalker]

I totally agree with that, but in fairness to Pierce, Lebron and Wade do the same thing, but get the call with less contact.

I think that's generally true, but a few differences. The true part is that I think Pierce gets far fewer calls than other players of his status.

That goes back to refs not liking him. There may be more to it, but I think that's because he so often just looks for the call. Of course, my premise could be wrong, I have no way of knowing (re refs disliking him).

I think him looking for the foul and not finishing so frequently is at least part of what hurts him with the refs. But, again, maybe I'm wrong, and maybe it's just my own bias against him for seeiming to be so focused on the call rather than the basket.

And one exception to what you say, I think, is LeBron. I think he absorbs a ton of contact and still finishes and/or doesn't get the call just because of how big and strong he is. I haven't seen Wade play much, but a better ex of what you say than LeBron, imo, is Kobe.

 

[chicowalker]

Not only was it a walk, grazing a guys hip with your hand is not a foul either.

I think BradyManny nailed it on that -- weak call, but garnett made it so obvious it was going to get called. Like the technical on Pierce in game 1, maybe it doesn't absolve the call, but at the very least it's Garnett's fault as well for the stupid play.