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The official Heat-Celtics Eastern Conference semifinal thread

Discussion in 'Boston Celtics Fan Forum' started by KontradictioN, Apr 28, 2011.

  1. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Figured I'd get this thread going for what should be one of the more anticipated playoff series in NBA history. The Celtics took the season series 3-1 while the Heat took the most recent contest 100-77. I wouldn't expect that one again, personally. And, if the Heat play like they did in the last couple of games against Philly, I expect a Celtics sweep. However, I think both teams will step their games up for this one.

    As a Heat fan, I'd like to see Mario Chalmers start at the point over Mike Bibby who, aside from the Cavs game in the regular season, has been about as useless as tits on a bull. Chalmers has been playing extremely well of late distributing the ball and has shown that he's capable of knocking down the open shots created by double teams to D-Wade and LeBron as well as defending the opposition's PG. For this series, I'd also expect them to go with Ilgauskas moreso than Joel Anthony. I like Anthony's shot blocking ability, but he's 6'9" and will apparently be going against Shaq. We need another 7 footer in there to contend with Shaq.

    In all, this series is going to be absolutely riveting television.
  2. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

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    We'll see if Shaq can actually suit up - I'm skeptical.

    I now think he is a key to the series though. Jermaine has been much better than expected - and light years ahead of where he was at the start of this season when he looked downright pathetic. But I'm not sure if he can eat up space in the paint the way we need him to.

    The way Perk did.

    The key to beating the Heat and the Bulls is controlling the paint. It's not just about the bigs, but their penetrators. Is Jermaine + KG enough to stop Lebron? Not sure. But throw Shaq in there, well, even Lebron can't run through him (though, lord knows he'll try, and not get called for one of his blatantly illegal offensive moves).

    Chalmers might have a better chance of dealing with Rondo, we'll see. I didn't watch much of the past Heat series save for game 4, and even then I wasn't paying much attention so I'm not sure how they are playing right now.

    I think this will be a pretty epic series. I was more excited for it back when we had Perk and Shaq and I knew we had the bigs to overmatch your Heat. Now, that advantage is neutralized, and who owns the paint is up for grab.

    Ultimately, like any Celtics series, it probably comes down to how Rondo plays on offense. If he's aggressive, they win. If he's not, they lose. You'd think he and Doc would've figured out this trend by now and he would - like Charlie Sheen - have one speed ("Go") and this team would be consistently tough to beat. Instead, his confidence wavers and he ends up being the 5th wheel on an offense that cannot produce points without him. Rondo is bi-polar as a basketball player in a lot of ways. And if low-confidence Rondo shows up, the Heat will rout.
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2011
  3. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'd like to see the Heat do to the Celtics what the Lakers did last year: shut down Allen and Pierce and force Rondo into jump shots. Do that, and the series is easily winnable. Rondo's jump shot really hasn't improved and ranges from "eh" to downright horrible. If Rondo's taking jump shots instead of penetrating, his effect on the game is neutralized. For the Heat, the defensive keys to this series are not allowing Allen open looks from beyond the arc and keeping Rondo out of the paint. Offensively, Bosh needs to be a presence in the paint and Wade needs to lead the offense and let LeBron be the role player that he came to Miami to be.

    For the Celtics, it's easy: control Wade and keep him out of the paint and get Rondo going. It also won't hurt to have Shaq for more than five minutes (assuming he shows up in basketball shape).
  4. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

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    Valid points - I agree on Rondo. I will say his jumper in round 1 was in one of its better forms all year - which is good news for C's fans. The bad news is I've never seen a "hot streak" (which I define as only moderately poor jump shooting) last long, and he reverts back to truly poor jump shooting.

    He needs to realize that he can use the cushion players give him to his advantage in others ways. It lets him get a running start on his drives and penetrations. It allows him to hang by the hoop and contest rebounds, make hustle plays, or get open for layups.

    When he settles and is shooting halfway decently (rare), they can survive. But I agree that when he settles and is shooting poorly, they'll lose.

    Doc knows that Rondo does not need to cave to the pressure of having his man play off of him.

    Wade I think the C's can control, generally. Lebron is another issue. This could become a free throw shooting contest with him and Wade getting into the paint and forcing their will. The Celtics will not win if that's the case.
  5. ausbacker

    ausbacker Brady > Manning. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Celtics 4-2 and continue the recent trend of knocking MeBron out of the playoffs.
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2011
  6. 51Hits

    51Hits Rookie

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    I agree. If Wade and Lebron get the refs going (Wade has his moments but it's automatic with Lebron) the Celtics have no chance, and will lose with James posting a ridiculous free throw advantage compared to us. Normally in games where CLE would beat us James would have a ridiculous free throw advantage
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2011
  7. scout

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    I see Rondo taking over this series. Miami has no answer for him. As soon as they put James on him, it opens up Pierce or Allen. There has been a lot of 'if's about James and Wade, but "if" the Celtics just play team ball, they will win.
  8. Brady_to_Moss

    Brady_to_Moss Revis Island is here PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Celtics in 6..Rondo is going to have a field day


    Give Lebron 30 a game and just stop bosh and wade

    And i already made a thread last week :(

    Too bad i can't watch the first 3 games really due to work..great..
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2011
  9. Run DMC

    Run DMC Rookie

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    This going to be fun watching the celts smoke these powder puffs. Rondo is going to have huge numbers in this series. :rocker:
  10. Boston Boxer

    Boston Boxer U.S. Air Force Retired PatsFans.com Supporter

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    come on Kontra..."one of the more anticipated playoff series in NBA history"? Really? Maybe for you and the Heat. The Celtics have played in at least 20 other series that have been more anticipated.


    This will not be close. Celtics win in 5 because this is the Heats "Super Bowl" and its the Celtics next apponent. The Heat are too amped up in trying to beat the Celtics.
  11. ausbacker

    ausbacker Brady > Manning. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Shutdown Wade and control the rebounding. It's really that simple to beat the Heat. Whether or not the sporadic big man performance of the Celtics can actually follow through with this is a different notion all together.

    LeBron is a proven playoff loser. Get in his head and he'll take his points to the detriment of the team attempting to compete with guys like Kobe etc.
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2011
  12. Brady_to_Moss

    Brady_to_Moss Revis Island is here PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I mean it's going to be a great series..but i look forward to playing the lakers much much more
  13. Boston Boxer

    Boston Boxer U.S. Air Force Retired PatsFans.com Supporter

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    someone on the Celtic may want to guard Jones...just saying
  14. Boston Boxer

    Boston Boxer U.S. Air Force Retired PatsFans.com Supporter

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    wow, this game and the officals are an embarassment! What a farce?
  15. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

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    This game is a joke. One of the worst officiating efforts I've seen this year.

    And I'm not even talking about the game changing botching of the 3 flagrant/technical situations. The Heat are being allowed to play with about ten times the physicality of the Celtics.
  16. bigcountry75

    bigcountry75 Rookie

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    I totally agree but really J. O'neal slides in front of jones and it's a flagrant but pierce gets clubbed on the head and no flagrant, Then pierce sets a LEGAL screen and wade says something and so does Pierce and PP gets ejected...This is absolute horse****....I am so furious about this game and the officiating that my dad made me turn the game off for fear of anything in his house staying in one piece....

    What's even funnier is the fact that the Heat are playing one of their best games, getting all the calls albeit mostly BS and they still aren't up by 20+ points....The celts are playing terrrible, getting screwed on almost every call, get BS flagrant foul calls and non-flagrant calls and are - one of the best players in the game and are still keeping it respectable enough....The head of officials really needs to ban these dumb ass mother ****ers from this series..
  17. ausbacker

    ausbacker Brady > Manning. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Did you not think the fix was in with NBA games after seeing the refs hand the Lakers the championship in the last 5 minutes of game 7?

    Still, you have to start questioning Ainge's butcher job with the roster now. Jeff Green really hasn't offered the Celtics anything and we've given up the 1 considerable advantage we had in size.

    Hmmm.
  18. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

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    I'm not that discouraged by the game, to be honest.

    Rondo was taken out of the game early, which besides from the foul he gave on Lebron, were questionable calls (Bibby was holding onto his arm, and somehow that's a foul on Rondo.)

    Pierce played poorly most of the game and we still were hanging in there.

    I thought overall, the team played well for huge chunks of the game. The problem was they were not allowed to play the same way the Heat were, and it cost them from the getgo.

    Home-team officiating. We'll have to put up with it until Game 3.

    And yes, that JO flagrant call was one of the worst calls I've seen. Was it a foul? Sure. But that bump he gave Jones happens all game, the only difference was Jones exaggerated it like a soccer player (or a Montreal Canadien).

    I think in total Jermaine O'Neal moved his elbow 4 inches on that play, and that was enough to warrant an absolutely game-changing flagrant and lead to a 5 point play.

    The play of Wade absolutely jumping into Pierce just shows me what an absolute punk that guy is. He used to be one of my favorite non-Celtics players, but after learning what a piece of sh*t he is off the court, I haven't exactly been a fan. But that play where he dove into Pierce's screen - I've played basketball against players like that. Just total punks. There's no really no place for that in the game.
    Last edited: May 1, 2011
  19. scout

    scout Rookie

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    Well............I set my recorder, then watched both my girls get blown out in both of their soccer games. Came home and for some reason the recorder didn't record. Guess, maybe that was actually a good thing.
  20. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Not just for me and the Heat, but to fans in general. Check out the ratings if you don't buy that. As for your second paragraph: BAHAHAHAHA.

    There were questionable calls going both ways. It's playoff basketball. That's what happens.

    I'll see your Pierce performance and raise you a Bosh. If Bosh had played at his normal level, this game would have been a massacre.

    You should also remember how badly the officiating was slanted in Boston's favor in the Celtics/Heat series last year.

    Agreed. It was just as bad as the flagrant on Dwyane Wade against Garnett earlier in the year.

    You're already admitting to having a bias here. What Wade did was simply physical, playoff basketball. I'd support that any day of the week, even if it wasn't the Heat. Hell, I'd defend it if Pierce did it to Wade. By the way, Paul Pierce is a HUGE doucher off the court as well.
  21. Brady_to_Moss

    Brady_to_Moss Revis Island is here PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Can't play 5-8 and win. Can't believe Wade didn't get a T for playing like a linebacker on that play

    Still feel very confident though. James Jones won't have a record day again and the Celtics played better than the Heat in the second half.
    Last edited: May 1, 2011
  22. ausbacker

    ausbacker Brady > Manning. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    C'Mon Kontra, if you can't admit the umpiring was slanted massively in favor of the Heat then there's no point discussing with you further. It'll be the some in all the home games as the NBA will be pushing for 7 game series.

    It's been exactly the same for the past few seasons and nothing will be change. More games = more dollars.
  23. BradysBunch12

    BradysBunch12 Rookie

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    Heat played the best they could ever possibly play, had the refs on their side, and got Pierce taken out of the game and still only won by single digits.
  24. ausbacker

    ausbacker Brady > Manning. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    But they won BB12... that's all that matters in the playoffs.
  25. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    OT: what are the storeis re Wade and Pierce off court?
  26. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

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    Most of the questionable calls - as they often do in basketball - went to the home team. The refs don't have the backbone to hear a few boos.



    I openly admit when the Celtics seem to be receiving officiating bias - as I did during the C's-Cavs series last year. Early on in that series, the officiating was as one-sided in the Cavs/Lebron's favor as ever, but somehow that magically reversed when it became clear Lebron had no intention of winning anything and was packing it in. It was the first time I started to buy some of the Stern conspiracy theories.

    Naturally, physical players who take it to the hoop will get the calls (Lebron). And since the NBA no longer calls traveling, players who lack traditional ball-handling skills and who - by the rules - travel probably a dozen times a game, are also getting the benefit of the doubt.

    Inherently, Lebron benefits from this. When he stops benefiting from it - as it did in the series last year - its noticeable.

    That said, I just chalk bad NBA reffing up to the refs being swayed by the crowd, or the refs taking themselves too seriously or letting their pride get in the way. I think all of that happened last nite, particularly with the laughable flagrant on JO, and the 2nd tech on Pierce (and lack of flagrant on Wade).

    I've never heard stories about Pierce the way you do with Wade. If anything, I'll buy that Pierce is a bit of a punk on the court, but I don't see many people questioning him off the court of late.

    As for what Wade did - no it was not simply physical. He literally left his feet and launched himself into Pierce and then stared him down. Wade's that punk who can't handle a tough pick, so he thought he'd take a cheap shot to send a message.

    Wade is lucky Perk isn't around anymore - b/c he's a guy who can set a hard pick and wouldn't put up with a soft 2 guard who got fed up running around picks and tried to run through one.
    Last edited: May 2, 2011
  27. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I can admit that the officiating was slanted in favor of the home team, as it often is. But let's not pretend that it was "massive". I saw plenty of no-calls that went Boston's way yesterday as well. So let's not act as if it was the officiating alone that cost Boston the game. Boston had numerous chances to erase double digit leads, and came close a couple of times, but simply could not stop the Miami attack on the other end. That's why all the complaints about the officiating here are laughable to me. The officiating didn't lose you the game. The failure to hold Miami to under 90 points, as you guys usually did in the regular season, DID lose you the game. You guys dropped game one. The series isn't over. Just admit it and move on to the next game.

    LOL at this. The Heat absolutely did not play the best they could possibly play. Bosh was nowhere to be found offensively. If he was, Boston would have gotten smoked. Chalmers wasn't there offensively as he had been in the last series either. Wade went cold for stretches of the second half and LeBron only managed to chip in 10 in the first half. The best the Heat could possibly play would be all of those guys contributing throughout the entire game. If that would have happened, the complaints about the officiating would be sounding even more ridiculous right now.

    I've heard about Wade from people I have met out and about. One guy I met at the Dolphins-Pats game last year, upon hearing that Wade was in the crowd, booed. I asked him why and he said that he made Wade at a Dolphins game before. Said he was sitting in the box in front of Wade and the window to the box was open. He said that he turned around and asked Wade to take a picture with him and Wade responded simply with a "nah, man". He said he figured Wade had been drinking and didn't want to be photographed hammered so he simply grabbed something and took a pen out of his wife's purse and asked Wade to sign an autograph for his 11 year old son. Wade responded by telling him (and I'm paraphrasing as this was last year and I was kind of hammered myself) that, "he's hear to watch a game. He ain't hear to sign any f*cking autographs or take any damn pictures". The guy then said Wade closed the window to the box. Personally, I didn't believe this guy until he told me that he was a Heat fan.

    As for Pierce, one of my cousins up in Boston used to work as an equipment boy for the Celtics and had a lot of contact with the players. On top of telling me that KG seemed to be a racist, he said that Paul Pierce acted like an absolute douche to many of the equipment guys. He also said that he witnessed a Celts fan approach Pierce about an autograph and said that Pierce just walked past him (bumping shoulders along the way) and pretended like he didn't even notice him. Said Pierce had a sh!t eating grin on his face. Then, there's also incidents like this which can't be just dismissed as hearsay...

    ^^ That's something that LeBron would be crucified for on this forum if he had said it. I'm sure that many of you will be quick to defend Pierce for that one, though. Pierce also tweeted "anybody got a broom?" after the first victory against the Magic in the playoffs last season. The Celtics won the series, but it wasn't a sweep. And what kind of thing is that to say for a professional after a Game 1 win. What if Wade just did that yesterday? How would you all feel? By the way, the Celtics lost the next two of three games after that tweet. There's also the story on how he bet Al Horford $10,000 that the Celts would sweep the Hawks in that infamous '08 playoff series. The Celts didn't sweep, and Pierce didn't pay up: Horford says Pierce owes him $10K - Celtics Blog - Boston.com

    Want more? How about KG getting interviewed after beating the Timberwolves for his first time since joining the Celtics. How about Pierce dragging KG out of the interview not even halfway through saying, "don't waste your time, let's go". The two of them openly laughed on the way out.

    So is Wade a douche off the court? VERY likely. I've heard those stories too. But let's not act like everyone on the Celtics is up for sainthood.
  28. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I can agree with that. I called it home cooking officiating last year. But I don't think it was anywhere near as slanted as some are leading it to be on here. As I said before, the Celtics got plenty of no-calls and plenty of questionable calls against the Heat as well. Did the Heat get more? Sure. I didn't agree with the flagrant on O'Neal myself. But the Pierce technical on Wade wasn't because he "set a hard pick". It was what he said to Wade afterward. The head official of the game last night said so himself when being questioned by reporters. If Pierce was smart, he would have remembered that he had just head-butted James Jones (something he could get suspended for) and would have kept his mouth shut after the hard foul by Wade. As it stands, he started flapping his gums and got his second technical. See ya.

    You're a little late. I bought the Stern conspiracy theories when Tim Donaghy started talking. :cool:

    I'm not so sure about this. As much as I've watched the Heat, I've seen LeBron get called for traveling a ton this year. If I can find a stat for how many traveling calls he's gotten, I'll post it. You'd be surprised on how much he gets called for it.

    Nah, I'm not sold on this. I just chalk up last night's officiating to the officials knowing that there could be a scuffle between the two teams at any time and calling a soft game because of it. How else do you explain the fact that Wade got a technical for what he did? Whatever happens in the series, you should expect the refs calling a soft game because of that fact.

    See my last post.

    Wade handles tough picks and getting mugged so badly while going up for a layup that he falls on his back and often comes up hurt all the time. Wade doesn't like Pierce and Pierce doesn't like Wade. Wade saw him attempting to set a pick and decided to send a physical message. He got T'd up and caused Pierce to open his big mouth, resulting in an ejection. To me, that was a smart and physical play by Wade against a rival. Like I said, I'd defend it if it were the other way around.

    LOL, well I can't see Wade trying to run through Perkins. That man's a beast. Maybe LeBron, but not Wade.
    Last edited: May 2, 2011
  29. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

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    I'll buy it - for some of the other Boston sports teams (Sox, B's) I have a couple acquaintances with access to the players/teams on a comparable level. The overriding thing I've learned from them is that most professional athletes are d-bags.

    To be honest, while I don't know anyone who works within the Patriots, I do know some people who have had dealings with various Patriot players - and I have to say, of all the Boston teams, by far they seem to have quality people who are stand-up people even when the cameras are off.
    Last edited: May 2, 2011
  30. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

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    To me, the disturbing thing is that Donaghy's accomplice (Foster) is still in the league. What does that say about Stern? Very sketchy. The evidence against Foster was just overwhelming as far as I'm concerned.

    Fair enough - and if KG pulled this and got a Heat star out of the game, and I wouldn't put it past him, I'd probably be cheering the end result.

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