The Official Brady sucks and the defense has been carrying him Thread

[Patspsycho]

No, most of the games are not like that. Again, I have just shown you that statistically, the Patriots last year ran the ball in the fourth quarter way more than they passed.

We also know that this team had 10 victories where they won by more than a touchdown, so I think right there you can surmise where a lot of the running came from. I would guess a bunch of those 19 victories you are citing came from that 10 or from our 5 victories of over a touchdown this year.

And Brady carries this team every week. Way to cherry pick the losses.

It's why when he even has a mediocre day or faces an elite defense that can curb this offense's potent production, the team is doomed.

The team lost against the Ravens b/c Brady had an off day. Against the Jets & Giants, the Patriots simply faced elite defenses and couldn't win a low-scoring game. The type of game we used to win.

Throughout the history of the game - heck, in almost every sport - a great defense has ALWAYS defeated a great offense - run, pass, it doesn't matter. The Pats need a defense that can get off the field, and get the offense more possessions to dictate the style of the game.

Would it help to be balanced? Sure. But only if the Pats had an elite rushing attack. Fact is the Patriots don't have a running offense that can impose its will on the other team, so your point is entirely moot.

So you're telling me that when the Jets put a quarter defense on the field against us in the playoffs, we still should try to ride Brady's cape? Come on.

When this team has the mentality, it can dominate in the run game. The running backs we have are not elite, but they are above-average, and so is our OL.

 

[Patspsycho]

Twice is 'keep losing'?
What does that have to do with this anyway?
You are using run/pass stats to conclude that running more causes winning. The reality is winning causes more running.
Sundays game was an example of getting ahead and running late to skew the stats while the Giants game was the opposite, where we ran a lot early, failed, and THEREFORE lost and had a high pass ratio.
The raw numbers don't prove what you want to think they do, and I don't know why you are struggling so hard to accept that.

You keep saying that when the pass game works, so does the run game.

That's still being one-dimensional. We need the run game to work independently of the pass game.

Having a solid run game helps Brady because it keeps the defense honest, and keeps the wear and tear to a minimum. Or do you want him to keep throwing his arm off, like he did in the first two or three games this season?

 

[RhodyPatriot]

So you're telling me that when the Jets put a quarter defense on the field against us in the playoffs, we still should try to ride Brady's cape? Come on.

When this team has the mentality, it can dominate in the run game. The running backs we have are not elite, but they are above-average, and so is our OL.

Agreed!! The Jet playoff game last year was a prime example. Look at Brady's passing stats from the 1st 2 drives in the 1st qtr of that game then see what his final stats were. That passing game went long stretches in that game where they were doing nothing. It was ridiculous how they refused to take what the Jets were giving them in the run game.
That was vintage Peyton Brady....with the usual Peyton playoff results.
Btw, if memory serves wasn't there a shot of BB on the sidelines yelling at BO to "run the %*&#%^$ ball" in the 2nd half of that game??
Yes there was.

Back to this season, the run game also toughens up the O. You're not succeeding at smashmouth football in the cold and snow of January if you've been on overdrive with the passing game all year long and not developing the run game. O lines LOVE to block for the run game because it allows them to be the aggressor and HIT PEOPLE rather than backpeddling in a defensive mode to protect the QB.
Of course the passing game is critical to the success of the Patriots. Not one Patriot fan here is arguing that point. Tom Brady and his ability to throw the ball will land him in Canton Ohio a few years from now. But far too many fans and mediots completely underestimate the importance of the run game and how its' success not only helps to win games but also helps that very passing game.

 

[ATippett56]

I used to think Tom Brady was one of the top 3 QBs in the NFL and one of the top 5 to ever play the game. I used to think the Patriots defense was horrible and that only Brady was keeping them a contender. But knowledgable Patriots fans have turned me around on this. Despite the heroic efforts of our rock solid defense the last few years Tom Brady has held the Patriots back with his sloppy play. I say enough excuses. This organization has given Tom Brady a great defense, terrific receivers,and the best set of running backs in the league and its time to start producing, otherwise it may be time to give Mr Hoyer a shot.

So after a Sunday night victory against the NY Jets, would you care to retract your idiotic rambling?

 

[Lifer]

So after a Sunday night victory against the NY Jets, would you care to retract your idiotic rambling?

So after figuring out sarcasm when you read it do you care to retract your idiotic question?

 

[Lifer]

Twice is 'keep losing'?
What does that have to do with this anyway?
You are using run/pass stats to conclude that running more causes winning. The reality is winning causes more running.
Sundays game was an example of getting ahead and running late to skew the stats while the Giants game was the opposite, where we ran a lot early, failed, and THEREFORE lost and had a high pass ratio.
The raw numbers don't prove what you want to think they do, and I don't know why you are struggling so hard to accept that.

To a 12 year old two years is a long time.

 

[ausbacker]

You keep saying that when the pass game works, so does the run game.

That's still being one-dimensional. We need the run game to work independently of the pass game.

Having a solid run game helps Brady because it keeps the defense honest, and keeps the wear and tear to a minimum. Or do you want him to keep throwing his arm off, like he did in the first two or three games this season?

I don't understand some people Patspsycho. If it were possible I'd want the Patriots to have the best passing game, the best running game, the best passing defense, the best rush defense and the best special teams in the NFL.

Dominant is always better than complimentary, for the obvious reason.

 

[ATippett56]

So after figuring out sarcasm when you read it do you care to retract your idiotic question?

Without this in your opening statement the answer is no!

 

[Patspsycho]

I don't understand some people Patspsycho. If it were possible I'd want the Patriots to have the best passing game, the best running game, the best passing defense, the best rush defense and the best special teams in the NFL.

Dominant is always better than complimentary, for the obvious reason.

Never hurts to be multi-dimensional on offense.

 

[Patspsycho]

How did Brady, most particularly, fail by completing 64% of his passes for 299 yards?

His QB rating was 89% for that game. That's mediocre.

 

[Patspsycho]

Twice is 'keep losing'?
What does that have to do with this anyway?
You are using run/pass stats to conclude that running more causes winning. The reality is winning causes more running.
Sundays game was an example of getting ahead and running late to skew the stats while the Giants game was the opposite, where we ran a lot early, failed, and THEREFORE lost and had a high pass ratio.
The raw numbers don't prove what you want to think they do, and I don't know why you are struggling so hard to accept that.

Once again, BJGE had a 4.3 YPC in the Giants game. I've asked you this before, how is that a fail?

Ridley only had 3 carries in that game. How is it a fail when he hasn't even had a chance? Why don't we apply this standard to Brady and yank him if he doesn't get the pass game going on 3 attempts? How stupid does that seem?

Seems to me you are struggling so hard to label it as a failure of our run game, rather than the fact that we abandoned it.

 

[Patspsycho]

Also I want to be very clear on this- just because I think we should emphasize a balanced offense, this in no way implies that I have anything against Brady.

When he hits a rough patch, however, I will not hesitate to point that out, and to suggest that we resort to the run game to take some pressure off him.

It never hurts to prevent him from excess wear and tear.

 

[BradyManny]

When this team has the mentality, it can dominate in the run game. The running backs we have are not elite, but they are above-average, and so is our OL.

Please provide examples in which we've dominated in the running game. I'll go ahead and grant you the 2007 AFCCG.

The Jets forced us to run last year in the playoffs. We did in the 2nd half, and it didn't lead to points anyways b/c we needed 7 and once the field shrank, they would stop us.

 

[Patspsycho]

Please provide examples in which we've dominated in the running game. I'll go ahead and grant you the 2007 AFCCG.

The Jets forced us to run last year in the playoffs. We did in the 2nd half, and it didn't lead to points anyways b/c we needed 7 and once the field shrank, they would stop us.

The games in which we focused on running the ball, e.g., committed to it are far and few, but when the team really puts its mind to it, it's proven that it can dominate in the run game.

The first Jets game of 2011 is a good example- in that game we ran more than we passed, for a total of 151 yards and 2 TDs. We dominated the best defense in the NFL in the run game. The fourth quarter was a good example. They knew we were running and we still ran, and they couldn't stop it.

Am I saying we must run all the time? No. What I am saying is that we do have the ability to dominate in the run game if we put our mind to it- so with that being said, it doesn't hurt to have at least a 60/40 pass to run ratio.

That at the very least opens up the play-action, which is where Brady has been particularly devastating. The first big gain in the 2nd Jets game came off a play-action- a long completion to Gronk that I think set the tone of the game.

 

[BradyManny]

The games in which we focused on running the ball, e.g., committed to it are far and few, but when the team really puts its mind to it, it's proven that it can dominate in the run game.

The first Jets game of 2011 is a good example- in that game we ran more than we passed, for a total of 151 yards and 2 TDs. We dominated the best defense in the NFL in the run game. The fourth quarter was a good example. They knew we were running and we still ran, and they couldn't stop it.

Which game are you talking about? If you mean 2011, then Brady was 24-33 for 321 yards and a TD:

http://espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=311009017

I agree that they couldn't stop our running game in the 4th, and that's great. The problems is Q1-3. It's always easier to run in the 4th on a tired defense and with the lead.

Name a game other than the 2007 AFCCG where we flat-out won the game with our running game consistently, start to finish.

 

[Texxx]

I used to think Tom Brady was one of the top 3 QBs in the NFL and one of the top 5 to ever play the game. I used to think the Patriots defense was horrible and that only Brady was keeping them a contender. But knowledgable Patriots fans have turned me around on this. Despite the heroic efforts of our rock solid defense the last few years Tom Brady has held the Patriots back with his sloppy play. I say enough excuses. This organization has given Tom Brady a great defense, terrific receivers,and the best set of running backs in the league and its time to start producing, otherwise it may be time to give Mr Hoyer a shot.

This has got to be sarcasm I hope.

 

[Patspsycho]

Which game are you talking about? If you mean 2011, then Brady was 24-33 for 321 yards and a TD:

New York Jets vs. New England Patriots - Box Score - October 09, 2011 - ESPN

I agree that they couldn't stop our running game in the 4th, and that's great. The problems is Q1-3. It's always easier to run in the 4th on a tired defense and with the lead.

Name a game other than the 2007 AFCCG where we flat-out won the game with our running game consistently, start to finish.

Yes, Brady had a good game. I'm not sure why you think I would be opposed to him having a good game? My concern is only that the playcalling is more balanced, because that generally results in our success.

Some people think that the answer lies the other way, that our success leads to a balanced playcalling- and truth be told, that would not be easy to establish, and neither is it a concern of mine, because of the effectiveness of our play-action out of it, as opposed to going empty or using too much Woodhead/Faulk, so to speak.

Name a game other than the 2007 AFCCG where we flat-out won the game with our running game consistently, start to finish.

I am not sure why you think my argument is that we must run exclusively- especially when Brady is clicking. My only argument is that the playcalling be more balanced, and if Brady is not clicking, we should not put all the pressure on him, but try to drive the offense through the run game, because it has been proven that when we have the mentality, (e.g., the first Jets game) we can dominate in the run game.

 

[BradyManny]

My only argument is that the playcalling be more balanced, and if Brady is not clicking, we should not put all the pressure on him, but try to drive the offense through the run game, because it has been proven that when we have the mentality, (e.g., the first Jets game) we can dominate in the run game.

That's fine, I agree with this. I would debate whether this is the argument you have been making over the last couple of weeks, but I'd rather leave it at this point as I am agreement with this statement, save maybe for some hesitation as to whether we can truly carry our offense with the run game.

 

[Kontradiction]

I haven't bothered to read any of this thread. So, with that in mind, quick question: Why isn't in the Practice Squad forum yet?

 

[Patspsycho]

That's fine, I agree with this. I would debate whether this is the argument you have been making over the last couple of weeks, but I'd rather leave it at this point as I am agreement with this statement, save maybe for some hesitation as to whether we can truly carry our offense with the run game.

I have never at any point in my argument for a more balanced playcalling, disparaged Brady, or took issue with how good of a quarterback he is, much less question his dedication (which I found to be astounding, in watching the documentary on Bill Belichick, where they showed Belichick and Brady sitting together going over the game plan for the Ravens and how to defeat Reed).

I also have never said that our run game must carry the offense (unless Brady is really struggling, and he only did that in three games so far: Bills, Steelers, and Giants), only that it should hover around a 60/40 pass/run ratio because that seems to be the sweet spot for the efficiency of our offense.