The Irreplaceable Revis

[Sicilian]

I think it's pretty easy to say that Revis would have helped us win Super Bowls 42 and 46, if we were allowed to simply add him to the team exactly as it was constituted. But give him the deal he just signed, then subtract that amount from the other players on the team however you see fit, and the equation is entirely unpredictable.

 

[Patriots1364life]

I cant wait to see which defensive back bill will draft next. How many will they draft?

 

[LightSkinSmurf]

Yeah, in early March, five weeks after winning the Super Bowl. A thousand things can (and will) happen between now and Sept. 10, some of which might more than compensate elsewhere defensively for Revis's absence. BB will have a good plan, we just don't what it is yet and might not know 'til well into the next regular season.

There is no replacing revis. So I don't need to wait and see if they can do it. Obviously we aren't done making moves and improving the team the best we can tho.

 

[ensoul]

This is exactly the kind of thing I have been trying to dispute. We've been in 6 SBs under Belichick, and the outcome of all six was narrow. To say one team had something inherently different that another team didn't and that's the reason they won/lost is not appropriate.

Either our guys made more plays than their guys over 60 minutes, or they didn't. Having a shutdown corner was not the difference in SB42, 46, or 49. We had one in 42, and he was busy being an overpaid spectator when a defender caught a ball off his helmet and changed the game. We didn't have anybody who could cover in 46, and we only lost because Wes Welker couldn't track Brady's ball. We had one in 49, and he was about to be on the field as we gave up a game-losing 80 yard drive in the final two minutes until his younger teammate saved the day.

Too much is being read into whether one play went one way or another.

Obviously there was the helmet catch that was a one in a million catch. Regardless I remember Manning marching up the field and throwing right at the sideline because Pats didn't have any corners that could make stops. I don't even have to mention Hobbs on Bouros.

Yes Welker dropping a pass could have cost the pats the game. Pats punted then the giants ended up getting the ball at the 12 yard line with 3:46 to go. Then Manning proceeded to throw passes of 38, 18, 18, and 14 yards because the pats corners were unable to make a play.

Butler did save the day but any way you look at it or break it down every time the pats won the SB they had a shut down corner. This is a passing league (And the now Colts, Bills, Miami and Jets have good to great receivers) so unless something drastic happens pats secondary is going back to the days of 2010 where they will end up giving up 400 yard passing a game and hope that Brady and the offense can win games 35-30.

 

[Tunescribe]

There is no replacing revis. So I don't need to wait and see if they can do it. Obviously we aren't done making moves and improving the team the best we can tho.

My point is that the defense potentially can improve in other areas to where a player of Revis's caliber at cornerback is not needed to reach and win the Super Bowl.

 

[PATSNUTme]

It's very clear to me today that Whore24 had no intention of dealing in good faith with the Patriots. He just wanted leverage to drive up his price. We got him on a one year rental and that is all.

 

[mikey m]

Its funny how everyone thinks now that this revis guy is just another player lol. He along with browner and dmac brung some toughness to this secondary. I already have my pats championship gear and will cherish it cause it could have been our last run with tom terrific.

He's not just another player. He's an exceptional player whose signing would have caused us to lose several very good/possibly great players in the near future. We were lucky to get him on a relatively team friendly deal last year due to his (sort of) down year in TB. But his reestablishment as a premier player was a blessing and a curse. No way we could now pay him along with Brady, gronk, and mccourty contracts without significantly weakening the middle and lower part of the roster. The only argument for those upset about this is they should have signed him over mccourty, and I would disagree there as well.

 

[LightSkinSmurf]

My point is that the defense potentially can improve in other areas to where a player of Revis's caliber at cornerback is not needed to reach and win the Super Bowl.

Yeah, that's a very optimistic way to look at it. I don't see any chance that this defense is better next year without revis, no chance. That being said I still think we can reach or possibly win the SB. We still have brady belichick and gronk. Might just need a few more breaks this time around.

 

[Ring 6]

That is not the statement I called ridiculous.... No we are talking about him like he makes our defense THAT much better, and he does. I don't see how you can possibly argue otherwise. With revis we had a good solid defense. Without him you are going back to not being able to get a key stop to save your life.

The defense was marginally better, not night and day.
We were 8th in points, after being 10,9,15,8,5,8 the prior 6 years.
We allowed 313 points after allowing 338,331,342,313.285.309 the prior 6 years.
We were not a terrible defense turned great. We were a good defense that got marginally better.

The statement I called ridiculous was the one with you saying revis has lost more games before he came to the patriots.

He did.

Like football isn't the ultimate team sport. No cornerback, no matter how good, is gonna be able to carry a team and win a SB.

You are the one saying this is the case.

Not even a QB can do that without help. So saying revis has lost x amount of games before he became a patriot, as if that somehow proves he isn't that good *or as if that proves anything at all* is insane, to say the least.

It certainly wasn't intended to prove he isn't good (Ive said the opposite consistently) it was intended to show how you are overrating the value of a cornerback.

Also, it sounds like you are trying to make this a revis vs the patriots kind of thing. That is not where I am going with this.

Not sure where you are getting that from.
I am saying that with the exception of a Brady everyone is replaceable and when their cost can be better spent elsewhere you improve the team.
Revis is worth a lot, but it is very, very debatable that he is worth what the Jets paid him.

 

[LightSkinSmurf]

The defense was marginally better, not night and day.
We were 8th in points, after being 10,9,15,8,5,8 the prior 6 years.
We allowed 313 points after allowing 338,331,342,313.285.309 the prior 6 years.
We were not a terrible defense turned great. We were a good defense that got marginally better.

.

Wait, are you trying to argue our defense was good before revis *and talib* got here?

 

[Bartmac36]

The Patriots have won without Revis, and Revis has only won with the Patriots.

To be fair, he went to back-to-back AFC title games with the Jets, so that's a little misleading. Overall I agree with your point though, this is by no means a knock out punch for the Patriots hopes of repeating, it just lessens the possibility for the time being.

 

[jah]

We've won 3 Super Bowls without him and were fluke plays away from winning 2 more. We were a fluke play away from losing the one WITH Revis. The reason I'm worried is not because I think Revis is irreplaceable, it's because our CB depth chart looks like absolute **** now. The 2015 secondary as it stands now (the roster is certain to change, but I'm just talking right now, before the draft and most FA signings) can only be anything but 2011-tier if most/all of the following pieces fall into place:

-Dennard reverts back to pre-2014 form (solid #2 corner)
-Butler lives up to the hype (takes over #1 spot and doesn't suck)
-Chung plays more like 10-11, 14 Chung than 12-13 Chung

 

[Kdo5]

The Pats have never won a title without a shut down corner. In 01,03-04 it was Law. Last year it was Revis. It's not so much that they lost Revis is that they lost a shut down corner and he cannot be replaced.

Unreal. A different poster made the same argument in another thread. Did you actually watch the 2004 run? Young Asante, Randall Gay, Troy Brown, Earthwind Moreland? Where is the shutdown guy? Right, there wasn't. Law was lost early in the season, same for the #2 corner Tyrone Poole.

 

[The Brandon Five]

Perhaps. A shutdown corner also may have been able to keep the Giants under the 30:27 of possession they had, allowing the offense more time with the ball.

The time of possession imbalance was largely due to:

1. Safety on first offensive play.
2. A pick thrown by Brady.
3. Inability to run the ball.

 

[luuked]

The time of possession imbalance was largely due to:

1. Safety on first offensive play.
2. A pick thrown by Brady.
3. Inability to run the ball.

WELKAHH ! CATCH THE BALL WELKAAAH !

There were easily another 1-2 minutes of possession and at least 3 points in that fcuking drop..

 

[Tom_Montana12]

Andy, though I usually agree with everything you ever say, ever, I have to disagree with you in regards to your opinion on our past defenses and last year's Super Bowl winning defense being comparable (I would quote you but unfortunately I can't figure out how to do that after I hit the "Quote" button, but oh well).

I understand that POINTS ALLOWED is the single most important statistic when judging a defense. However, when taking a step back and looking at past Patriots defenses versus last years defense, I think what separates 2014/15's from our defenses from recent years past is more obvious when looking at situational football and matchup problems.

I can't remember a Patriots defense post-2005/2006 that had the ability to shut down an opposing offense when it mattered most, and that also had the ability to create matchup problems for the offense. What immediately comes to mind when you posted the POINTS ALLOWED statistic comparing the past 7 or so Pat defenses was the Chicago game where the Bears, and Martellus Bennett in particular, kept stacking on meaningless points; as the game was securely in our hands at that point (granted I'm sure there were several games just like this that could be associated to each of the other past seasons).

But when it came to critical situations and crunch time, my gut just TOLD me our defense would prevail. I know that is lame reasoning and analysis, but I'd like to know what you think. I would like to point out that I am content with Bill not matching the Jets' offer.

 

[FibSeq13478]

I don't think 2014 defense was very good situationally in general but they were outstanding in 2nd half and 4th quarter in particular. This may have been the best 4th quarter defense pats have had in 15 years

 

[Double TE]

If you sign him to those guarantees perhaps then you can't sign Collins, Jones and Hightower in 2 yrs and renew Gronk?

 

[DW Toys]

I get that people wanted him back, but some of the comments on this board have been ridiculous.
Lets recognize that Revis came to a winner, he did not create a winner.
Since 2001 Bill Belichick is 170-54 in the regular season and 21-8 in the postseason.
Before joining the Patriots Revis had played in 98 regular season NFL games, winning 46, or less than half of them and is 4-2 in the playoffs, for a total non-Patriot record of 50-54.
The Patriots have won without Revis, and Revis has only won with the Patriots.
I loved having him here, but lets be clear, he was a piece of the puzzle, and one that history shows is not irreplaceable in the scope of a team.

Good point on a miserable Pats day.
DW Toys

 

[ausbacker]

If you sign him to those guarantees perhaps then you can't sign Collins, Jones and Hightower in 2 yrs and renew Gronk?

By offering Revis the absurd guarantees that the Jets did, the Patriots would find it difficult to extend important pieces in the coming seasons, especially in 2017. You also set a dangerous precedent for contract extensions and Free Agent acquisitions. If it's my guess, the agents for Wilkerson and Richardson are going to enjoy negotiations with the Jets.

I'm fine with the Patriots MO. They win because they know when a deal is a bad deal and walk away from the table.