The "Edelman experiment"

[DaBruinz]

So the answer is to give him that 20 million guaranteed that he "wasn't going to get" by the end of next season then? If the team didn't want to give him that kind of guaranteed money over 3+ yrs, then why would they want to do it over 2?

I wouldn't think that there is much of a chance of the team giving Welker another franchise tag, unless it's done with the thinking that they aren't too far away and will almost certainly come to a reasonable agreement on a 2-3 yr deal prior to the middle of July 2013.

I think there's a chance that he does end up staying, but he'll have to temper his demands a bit to do so, and it will have to be on a deal of at least 2 yrs.

I seriously doubt that Belichick will be okay with paying our slot WR 11+ million for next season's salary, but that's just my opinion.

Why is it that people like yourself continue to pigeon hole Welker as ONLY a slot receiver? How many times does he need to run deeper routes, lining up on the outside before you realize he is more than just a slot receiver? Seriously. I would have thought a veteran fan like yourself would have made the transition by now..

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Best post of the thread.

Tank you Tank you

Welker has shown absolutely no signs whatsoever of slowing down. Why wouldn't you want to give him a 3 year deal and lock him up?

Agree except I think 2 years is alot safer, 3 years is still a long time for a WR of his age. After Moss had maybe the greatest season ever for a WR which obviously shows no signs of slowing down either, he was given a 3 year contract and by the final year he had experienced a significant dropoff. Welker could slow down at any point the max I'd commit is 2 years.

But based on what we're seeing from Welker right now, I'd also definitely want him on the roster next year if this continues throughout the season.

 

[Sciz]

Why is it that people like yourself continue to pigeon hole Welker as ONLY a slot receiver? How many times does he need to run deeper routes, lining up on the outside before you realize he is more than just a slot receiver? Seriously. I would have thought a veteran fan like yourself would have made the transition by now..

"ONLY a slot receiver" is exactly what Welker was before Edelman got hurt.

 

[DaBruinz]

"ONLY a slot receiver" is exactly what Welker was before Edelman got hurt.

No he wasn't. He was lining up in different areas like he always had.

 

[supafly]

Why is it that people like yourself continue to pigeon hole Welker as ONLY a slot receiver? How many times does he need to run deeper routes, lining up on the outside before you realize he is more than just a slot receiver? Seriously. I would have thought a veteran fan like yourself would have made the transition by now..

I certainly didn't mean it to come off as a disrespectful thought, DaBruinz.

The likely truth is that he is definitely not just limited to playing the slot, although he certainly isn't what most consider as the typical stretch the field receiver either.

I didn't intend my statement that "Welker plays the slot" to be controversial in any form.

 

[1%er]

I certainly didn't mean it to come off as a disrespectful thought, DaBruinz.

The likely truth is that he is definitely not just limited to playing the slot, although he certainly isn't what most consider as the typical stretch the field receiver either.

I didn't intend my statement that "Welker plays the slot" to be controversial in any form.

From a size/speed/athleticism view Edelman is more of a Greg Jennings type. Obviously not by a productive level at this point.

The Welker comparison has never really fit with anything other then his skin tone.

 

[Deus Irae]

Interesting note here, concerning the "Edelman's better for the run game" discussions.....

While Welker’s blocking skills have come into question, it’s worth noting that the Patriots' running attack has actually been more effective with him on the field. Patriots’ running backs are averaging 4.84 yards per carry with Welker on the field, compared with 2.81 yards per carry otherwise.

What do Welker's snaps tell us? - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

This was even before the rushing success in the Bills game. Hopefully, BB and McD will grasp the significance of the first 4 games (and 5 previous seasons) rather than dismissing it as aberrational.

 

[Danger Zone]

I know it's BB's hobby to tinker with well rounded football players but sometimes it's wise to not try fitting a square peg into a round hole.

I think the genius of BB, more so than any other coach, is he doesn't make players fit his scheme, his scheme changes to fit his players.

Even with the few games we saw a focus on Eldelman, I don't see square hole pegging going on here.

 

[SammyBlueCat]

Edelman looked good during the first half of the Ravens game. The offense slowed down without him playing in the second half.

 

[Ring 6]

I would like to present evidence that Wes is not as big a difference maker underneath as Aaron, and outside as Julian. The evidence is what the OC thinks about that. Unless Josh is out of his mind, Wes is not as big a difference maker as who they can put on the field at various spots.

Evidence? Of what? Welker leads the team in receiving.

But I certainly do think that matchups count, and that Wes could match up with a somebody better than Aaron. Aaron is quick but he's not Wes quick. Aaron needs different matchups than Wes. I think they've got a handle on it - a better handle than the fans. There are some smart fans here but come on, they are not coaching and evaluating these guys every day. They are not designing with the ability to implement and see the results in practice.

You don't seem to be making a point here. Players have different skill sets and the coaches understand them better than fans. Is this news?

 

[Ring 6]

Well, demeaning him was certainly not the intent, but isn't it fair to call him a slot WR when he plays the slot?

No because it implies he is not a complete WR, which he is. He played 90% of the snaps last year.

Realizing his production, obvious importance, and stats---he still lacks the ability to be able to stretch the field vertically, which is what most other WR's of that caliber are able to do for that kind of money.

He had the 19th best season a WR ever had. It is demeaning to say that you downgrade that production because you think one kind of production is better than another.
Defenses cover WRs. Other than Calvin Johnson, they failed vs Welker more than any one else.

Just for the record, I want Welker to stay and finish his career here just as badly as anyone else, I simply think that it will take a 2 yr deal with guarantees that were less than this year.

Its not black and white because of age and injury risk. If he were 26 he should get paid as much as any WR in the league, but he is not. We have to pay for what he will produce during the contract not what he did, and BB seems to be better seeing that than most.

I'm not sure if Belichick would have felt comfortable paying 11+ million to Randy Moss is his heyday on the second consectutive year of being franchised, it's not necessarily meant as a sign of disrespect towards Welker.

He paid Moss 10 a year didn't he? And that was when the decline was clearly ready to start.

 

[Ring 6]

I think the genius of BB, more so than any other coach, is he doesn't make players fit his scheme, his scheme changes to fit his players.

Even with the few games we saw a focus on Eldelman, I don't see square hole pegging going on here.

A large chunk of the passes to Edelman were screens, which are about rac skills not WR skills.
I think the answer is the scheme is varied enough that it can accentuate the players strengths or hide their weaknesses, depending on what you have out there.
Of course having Brady as the triggerman makes everyone look smarter than they are.

 

[supafly]

He paid Moss 10 a year didn't he? And that was when the decline was clearly ready to start.

To be fair, I think that Moss' contract was 3 yrs/27 million or roughly 9 million per year average. Only Belichick knows whether or not the ability of Moss to stretch the defense out had additional benefits to other aspects of the offense here. Apparently he no longer felt that way at the end, or he wouldn't have wanted to trade him, but he may have felt that he was worth the 9 million more than wanting to pay Welker 11+. We will likely never know.

Either way, your point is duly noted regarding Welker as a slot receiver. Again, it wasn't meant to demean. It would more of a fact...albeit incorrect by your opinion (and others). I saw no problem with it, but I can understand why you may have.

As I said, the truth likley lies in the fact that he is not the "typical" receiver which can add some much needed benefit by being able to stretch the defense and the field; in the same token, he should not be limited to just being called a "slot receiver" either, as he has lined up in other areas of the position.

 

[Beverly Boys]

I think Edelman is as good or better than WW. Anytime he gets the ball he is explosive and smart. He just needs some more balls thrown his way. He will replace WW after this year. Just wait and see...
ps. He does not drop many balls either.

 

[McCourty Island]

I think Edelman is as good or better than WW. Anytime he gets the ball he is explosive and smart. He just needs some more balls thrown his way. He will replace WW after this year. Just wait and see...
ps. He does not drop many balls either.

Edelman's 8.5 yards per catch this season doesn't really scream explosive. I don't see how Edelman is a better receiver than Welker in any objective way.

 

[Avenger]

I like Edelman better on the outside and Welker better on the inside, which is exactly what the coaches think too.