Team improvement 2015 to 2016

[long distance]

Let me use this rest day to share my thoughts on 2016 team compared to last year after first week of TC

Last year Pats looked like unstoppable force before a series of key injuries.
This year on paper they look even more unstoppable.
I wanted to see position by position how much better they could be this year (on paper).
+ for improvement - for drop 0 for about the same level. Its about expectations of course.


QB: -1
Brady looks like his unstoppable self at the moment. JG will be good. But he's not Brady so even the optimists have to see it at least as a slight downgrade for the 1/4 of the regular season.

RB: 0
Brown, Gaffney and D.J. Foster are added to camp/preseason depth. Blount looks healthy.
On the + side Develin being back and improved OL (at least on the interior) promise better chance for running
On the - side Lewis is a double ? can he come back as his last year self? and can he stay healthy?
Since Lewis was such a key factor to last years NE dominance this ? is huge.

TE: +2
This will be a nightmare for D's across the league and especially where it matters the most - in the red zone.
The other + is for making O so much harder to read. Maybe I should put +3 for the impact on running game.

WR: +1
Hogan looks like a huge + to me. There's also the depth and prospect of a solid wide out.
? are Edelman and Danny but it looks they could be ok. In any case now's much more insurance behind them.

OL: +1
First week of TC promises improved and deeper interior and continuing problems at T.
+ is mostly for Dante - there is just so much belief in him everywhere

*

DL: -1
The loss of CJ, Hicks, Easly is huge.
Most see Brown stepping up. Knighton and Branch should be solid enough. Maybe Valentine can make a few plays. Sheard will be better monitored but I guess it will not stop him much. Good things about Long are reported from TC. Nink will be Nink at least for this year.

LB: +1
High and Collins maturing. #3 fels better with McClellin. Nink training for another option here. A small +
(and if KGH shows he can step in at times - a solid+)

CB: +1
Everybody coming back + Roberts. Great new depth. Love Cyrus.

S: 0
More of the same with some interesting new depth.

ST: +1
Ebner out for the first part of the season.
Cyrus looking great at returns. KGH promises. Big emphasis on ST plays from BB.

*

So on paper 2016 could be quite improved team even compared to unstoppable force from the starting 2015.
Reality will be another matter.

What I do feel is that 2016 team is better insured against key injuries (including TB and Gronk) and top D's.
So against what stopped them last year. This for me is the biggest difference between the two years. And its very reassuring. I don't fear injury reports as much as last year(s). Great job GM.

 

[BlueThunder]

Key word here is "injuries" .......

Let's hope they fair better than last season's IR list.....

 

[long distance]

Key word here is "injuries" .......

Let's hope they fair better than last season's IR list.....

Sorry, but the key word here is “insurance“ in case of injuries, even key injuries.
(And thats huge luxury in this league)
Even if this team loses Brady, Gronk, Edelman and Lewis, they can still be competitive.
Not “unstoppable“ anymore of course but certainly not like @Miami.

 

[BobDigital]

Overall could be a better team.

As you said the only place it feels like they went backward is on the DL. Everything else is as good if not better after Brady comes back.

I am very excited for this team.

 

[Mack Herron]

 

[RobertWeathers]

The pass rush will be a little worse but I think the man to man coverage will be better.

Statistically Sheard was better than Jones.

I think Brown will be a bit better in the pass rush. Might help off-set the loss of Hicks.

Easley was a penetrator and generated a rush but between injuries and a lack of bringing down the QB I'm not sure if he'll be missed all that much.

 

[signbabybrady]

I actually think the DL should be better this year.

Only reason to think it wouldn't is due to the Chandler Jones trade. But I'm pretty high on Long so I don't think we'll see much if any drop off there.

But even with a drop off from no Jones there should be improvements elsewhere. Malcolm Brown should be improved from last and adding in Pot Roast should even things out. Not to mention some other guys like Flowers and/or Rufus Johnson should also be improved.

 

[BlueThunder]

I just hope Long isn't a disappointment...I'm rooting for him....

 

[Reckedtrek]

It's game over when the GOAT returns in week 5. If last year was the revenge tour, then 2016 must be the humiliation and extermination tour.

 

[VrabelJr]

This is the deepest roster I think I've ever seen at camp. The one place we're lacking good depth, and even have questions at starters, is the OL. Unfortunately that's the most important unit on the team. But it's comforting to have Scar back.

 

[PatsBoy12]

I don't know why it seems the board is generally down on our front four. Sheard is a force (gonna be hard to squeeze him in under the cap next season), Brown will be better than Easley (more consistent) and, if Knighton is back to being Knighton (and I really think he will be motivated enough to be), it's more than plausible they'll be at least a wash from last season. Ninko will probably have many roles and Shea M. will also be involved. I see very few holes on this team.

I'm far more concerned with/interested in the line on the offensive side of the ball. I've said in many threads that the OLine and/or injuries are the only things that could ultimately derail this team, any given Sunday and all.

 

[long distance]

This is the deepest roster I think I've ever seen at camp. The one place we're lacking good depth, and even have questions at starters, is the OL. Unfortunately that's the most important unit on the team. But it's comforting to have Scar back.

Even the PS spots will be hard to get this year. Jut look at the possible candidates!
(and clearing waivers will be no easy thing either)
* means you can have only 4 of those among 10


RB White*/Foster/Gaffney/Iosefa

WR Lucien/Carter/Harper

TE Derby/B Williams

OT Fleming*

IOL Karras/Mason*/Jackson*


DT Vellano*/Hamilton

DE Grissom*/Flowers*

LB KGH/R Johnson/E Roberts

CB D Roberts*/J Johnson/Bentley/LeBlanc

S B Vereen*/C Thompson

Note that most of this guys still have a reasonable chance to make the 53

 

[AtomicDawg]

The FO does get bashed more than a few times on here from certain posters, so this portrait does a good job of showing what a tremendous job they've done of building depth and also promoting competition from within. The WR battle alone is what intrigues me the most, because it's the younger guys AND the "old guard" that have equal opportunities. Mitchell, Lucien, everyone's favorite Dobson and others are making it difficult to decipher who will get in. And with Gronk and MartyB, the need to have more WRs is lessened dramatically, because you won't need 7 of them on the final 53. Plus add in a guy like Harbor and Bryce Williams and Develin and a lot more non-WR position players will factor in. Talk about an embarrassment of riches!

 

[SalemPats]

This was a young defense last year, i'm excited to see them be even more dominant this year.

The O-Line will most likely be a lot better

 

[BTTA]

Great thread!

Three places where you are underestimating the improvement, I think:

RB: 0
On the + side Develin being back and improved OL (at least on the interior) promise better chance for running

WR: +1
? are Edelman and Danny but it looks they could be ok. In any case now's much more insurance behind them.

S: 0
More of the same with some interesting new depth. Richards second year jump is due.

 

[long distance]

Thanks.
And agreed. I tried to be conservative here (also with DL), because it's still so early. And also out of respect to a wonderful, flying 2015 Pats team in the first part of the season.


I wonder how those grade hungry mediots who were giving C's and ridiculed BB&co's picks would grade themselves if 7 of 9 end up on 53 (Cyrus, Thuney, Brissett, Valentine, Mitchell + KGH, Karras ) and the other two (Lucien, E.Roberts) on PS if they can clear waivers - all that without the stolen 1st rounder and to a SB bound 2015 roster with great FA additions & UDFA prospects ...

 

[long distance]

and then of course they still go on being paid publishing this ... more embarrassment, never embarrassed


Yes, Malcom Brown looks like a nice find from last year's draft, but there's little other promising youth in New England. The Pats take the bottom spot on Football Outsiders' list U-25 talent rankings

 

[Mack Herron]

​

 

[jmt57]

and then of course they still go on being paid publishing this ... more embarrassment, never embarrassed


Yes, Malcom Brown looks like a nice find from last year's draft, but there's little other promising youth in New England. The Pats take the bottom spot on Football Outsiders' list U-25 talent rankings

To be fair, no team should be ranked worse than the Patriots in such a very limited (and highly subjective) opinion/ranking. On the other hand an article that is so subjective, despite the claim of using factual criteria, is nothing more than click bait. How it ends up behind a pay wall is absurd.

Under age 25 means we are looking at only the three most recent drafts - including one draft class where none of the players have yet to play in a scrimmage or preseason game. Of the three first round picks one looks very good (Malcom Brown), one didn't pan out (Dominique Easley), and one was stolen away thanks to a ridiculous witch hunt. Add to that the team has had a worse starting position than any other team in that span - even without Roger Goodell's thievery - and it would have been an epic failure on the part of some other team to manage to bungle their way to a lower ranking. The Patriots have had a grand total of just two draft picks in slots one through 59 in three years, and their top pick from those three drafts is history.

Expand that ranking to age 25 and under and the Pats list now includes Dion Lewis, Logan Ryan, Bryan Stork, Duron Harmon, Tyler Gaffney, Aaron Dobson and others. Expand the criteria an additional year and you now include Malcolm Butler, Jamie Collins, Dont'a Hightower, Ryan Allen, Brandon Bolden, Jonathan Cooper, Josh Kline and Keshawn Martin.

A ranking such as this one is no different than the obligatory ranking of 32 team's draft the moment Mr. Irrelevant is announced. To get an idea of how useless this opinion/judgement is, look no further than the 'best under-25' article from a year ago: it had the Dallas Cowboys first and Seattle Seahawks last. How did that work out?

edit: none of the links below are to BSPN, though they do have their initials in the link title.

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | ESPN: Ranking Under-25 Talent on All 32 Teams 2016

ESPN: Ranking under-25 talent of all 32 NFL teams

ESPN Insider - PFF/ESPN Ranking the rosters of all 32 NFL teams • /r/nfl

 

[long distance]

The question here is also how you understand “talent“. I prefer to understand it in its original meaning - as measured value rather than natural gift. In such a complex sport (and social structure) as football natural gift has limited “talent“ (value). (patfanken said it nicely in another thread yesterday connecting it rightly to the beauty of this sport). Moreover it is a very subjective assumption as you said.

Also, natural gift is not only athletic (like most people, even football professionals like to see) but in my mind even more importantly psychological. BB understands this so well and its a key part to this unbelievable success of Patriots football culture. When he drafts guys like Thuney or Karras (or Brady for that matter) everybody is shaking their heads and when they start producing they are surprised. (or when he brings in guys like Edelman, Develin, Butler, Lewis, Andrews to name just the recent “untalanted“ additions). He is not a magician. He just understands talent so much better.