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Stud WR Won't Fix Anything (Remember 2007?)

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by DropKickFlutie, Jan 23, 2013.

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  1. DropKickFlutie

    DropKickFlutie Rookie

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    The Patriots in 2007 had the most prolific deep threat in NFL history in Randy Moss, who broke the all team record for regular season TD's.

    That did not stop the Pats from struggling in multiple games in the playoffs that year, including the Superbowl.

    Multiple posters here have noted that in the last 7 years the Patriot offense has lost big playoff games in which the offense has put up 17 or fewer points, especially by getting shut out in the 2nd half or in the 4th quarter of games.

    The solution to this is not throwing money at a stud wide out. At best it would just be 2007 all over again, and will not address the original core problem(s) that result in offensive choke jobs.

    The solution is looking at something a poster pointed out about Game Preparation Theory, in which playoff teams catch up to the K-Gun Patriots after more comprehensive playoff scouting.

    The Patriots need to scout themselves especially on offense, in order to understand how to beat teams that make various 2nd half adjustments on them. It is NOT a talent issue, it is a play calling issue. In 2001 the Patriots had terrible receivers, but called the right play to secure the key 3rd down or make the key catch to advance a game-winning drive.
  2. Palm Beach Pats Fan

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    Remind me who were the tight ends and running backs in 2007? Ben Watson? Kyle Brady? Maroney? Sammy Morris?

    How do they compare with Gronk, Hernandez, Ballard, Ridley, Vereen, Woodhead in productivity?

    Randy and Wes were awesome weapons. Even they needed some help as we were fading late in the year.

    Now we have lots more awesome weapons in the under-20-yard passing game and not much beyond.

    The situation doesn't compare to 2007. It's not just like apples and oranges, it's like apples and fence posts.
  3. Franchise12

    Franchise12 Rookie

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    A stud WR will make a difference in THIS offense. in 2007 the running game wasn't a threat at all. Ridley gives us balance. Ben Watson and Kyle Brady aren't the threat in the middle like gronk, ballard, and hernandez are. Lloyd is far better than gaffney and stallworth. with a Deep threat in our current offense we will have the ability to take advantage of every inch of the field. the problem in 07 was the fact that we RELIED on the deep throw too much. brady got killed in the superbowl waiting for moss' deep routes to develop. having a stud WR will keep the safeties from creeping up and condensing the middle of the field like we've witnessed the last 3 years.
  4. Brady_to_Moss

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    it made a huge difference in 07...just becasue they lost the SB by a miracle catch and with Moss as a stud that year didn't fix anything?
  5. Snake Eyes

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    Correction: a stud WR won't fix everything but it'll certainly fix some things.
  6. Sciz

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    They still only scored 17 points, though. I don't think anyone can say that the offense did its job that game. The defense fell just short (mainly because of the helmet catch) of making up for the lack of execution by the offense.
  7. Rob0729

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    I still think a healthy Gronk is just as effective as any stud WR not named Johnson, Fitzgerald, or a small handful of others to fixing the problems we saw on Sunday.
  8. robertweathers

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    If Moss doesn't cut his fingernails that day he hauls in that bomb from Brady.
  9. Spergon Wynn

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    What's the problem with adding one? It's not going to hurt.

    I'm not saying to go out and sign a guy to a $100mil contract but I still think it could help and add another lethal element to the offense.

    Plus, we gotta add some more WRs for depth any way with only Lloyd and a few PS guys signed for next year.
  10. Rob0729

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    Do you think Moss did all that much more than what Gronk did this year before he got injured? If Gronk wasn't injured, he was on pace for a 1,264 yard and 18 TD season even after a slow start. Moss had 1493 yard and 23 TD season. Not a huge difference.
  11. KontradictioN

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    A healthy Gronk fixes the problems we saw Sunday. A big bodied and athletic WR that runs all the routes and threatens every level of the field to go along with Gronk and Welker puts us over the top and makes this offense damn near unstoppable.
  12. TriplecHamp

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    much of that was on the offensive line. patsfans.com has a problem with correlation and causation. Poor offensive line play will hinder any offense but that wasn't the problem on sunday. Lack of separation, inability to threaten from sideline to sideline as well poor adjustments and execution did. Its come pretty apparent that these "historically great" offenses have been coming up short in the post season and there hasn't been a consistent reason as to why.
  13. Ian

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    They don't need a stud WR - but I'm telling you they definitely need better talent down the depth chart instead of guys like Branch, Stallworth, etc. Since they get snakebitten each year with injuries and when it comes down to these critical playoff games, they're left with no other WR's that can step up and get open so this team can continue winning. I know they did well during the regular season but when it comes to the tough teams in the playoffs (or the Super Bowl last year) they're forever one guy short.

    However, all of this changes if Welker is gone. Then at that point I believe they need, at the very least, two very good receivers (not necessarily a "stud") to go along with Lloyd. I don't want to hear about Edelman being able to replace Welker because he's not as talented or as tough to sustain what Welker does week in and week out. That's probably one of the most underrated things about Wes is that he takes those hits and gets up and goes back to the huddle. Edelman's a good #3 or #4 receiver and he's definitely good enough to be productive in this offense, but in my opinion he's not going to be an upper tier receiver - as much as we'd all like to see him become one. He'll be far better than Branch and other veteran guys they continue to try and bring in, but they still need more help.

    If Welker stays, I think Edelman should take Branch's spot on the depth chart, but they still need one more Lloyd-esque type of guy so they can at least have enough depth to be able to put up points if someone else goes down against better defenses. That would give them four good players that can at least be productive if one goes down or if Gronk or Hernandez get hurt. The latter seems pretty likely given their histories, so it would be nice to see them be able to sustain it when they start facing better competition. Because that killed them Sunday.
  14. Rob0729

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    I'm not opposed to one, but unless they draft one I don't see how it is feasible capwise. In free agency, it is either Welker or a big bodied and athletic WR that runs all the routes and threatens at every level. Not both. And I would rather have the Pats spend any big free agent dollars on defense other than on Welker or his replacement.
  15. PATRlOT

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    Oh yeah..Remember 2007 when he were 1 play away from winning the SuperBowl? Not to mention, a 1 IN A MILLION LUCKY ASS PLAY away from winning the SuperBowl and going undefeated?

    9 times out of 10 we would have won that SuperBowl.

    What we need more than ANYTHING is to be relatively HEALTHY for once!
  16. naF staP

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    A good, respected deep threat draws defenses away from the line of scrimmage opening up the run game and the short passes. Gronk isn't going deep enough to draw defenses out of the short/middle part of the field.
  17. Brady_to_Moss

    Brady_to_Moss Revis Island is here PatsFans.com Supporter

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    difference was moss was a burner on the outside...gronk can't burn someone on the outside but can out muscle almost anyone on the D

    Two different types of players. What Moss did that year help the pats a tremendous amount. Ds were scared of them going deep backing off every other play
  18. The_Riddler

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    A stud WR in this offense MEANS EVERYTHING ! A guy TB can look to outside the hashes when opposing defenses collapse the inner part of the hashes like they did Sunday night and always did in prior Big Playoff games because we had nothing on the exterior. NO MORE, tired of it. We need a playmaker outside and another redzone option when Gronk as will happen, goes down again for something else.
  19. Palm Beach Pats Fan

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    so many things could have changed it

    -if a ref calls the hold, as Seymour was being tackled by an O-lineman (others were held too)
    -if Tyree doesn't catch it
    -if Asante does catch the INT
    -if Randy does catch the bomb

    There were other things that went exactly wrong too, but I can't think about it any more or else my lunch will reappear. At one point I think I had a list of 8 key things, and we had to go 0-for-8 to lose and we went 0-for-8.
  20. Rob0729

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    I agree. This team needs to be more rounded in terms of depth rather than a stud receiving target to add to the current roster. A stud WR would be nice, but not necessary.

    As Bedard pointed out in his column today, Branch was on the field for 47% of the plays and didn't draw any attention from the Ravens' defenders leaving them to double team Welker, Hernandez, and/or Lloyd.
  21. Ian

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    Exactly - but you don't necessarily need a "stud" to do that, just someone younger and better than someone like Branch who can also do what you're suggesting. They really need a couple of decent perimeter guys who are in their late 20's instead of early 30's, or they need to draft one. But they need to get a little younger down the depth chart and at least have guys who have some speed and can get separation on the outside.
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2013
  22. Brady_to_Moss

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    they need more help on D than they do on O..that's for sure
  23. Ian

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    No question, but it's still an issue. Although I don't think they need to break the bank to solve it and would rather see them spend more on the secondary to stabilize it heading into next year.
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2013
  24. Rob0729

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    Teams had to gameplan for Moss and teams had to gameplan for Gronk. Different reasons. Similar results. Also, Gronk adds an element in the running game that Moss couldn't offer. Moss was a good run blocker for a WR, but that is nothing compared to an elite run blocking TE like Gronk.
  25. Brady_to_Moss

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    If you knew we had ahren and ballard at 100%...would you rather have megatron with brady..or gronk. Factor in injuries, age ect

    just curious
  26. Rob0729

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    A stud WR does not mean everything. Last year the offense was good enough to be a minute away from winning the Super Bowl with a hobbled Gronk and no stud WR. They were the third highest scoring offense of all time this year without a stud WR.

    You can only dedicate so much money to your receiving corp. Both Gronk and Hernandez got big deals. If Welker stays, he will get a big deal. They can't afford to pay a stud WR on top of that.

    A stud WR is nice to have, but not neccessary. Unless Gronk continues to get injured for the playoffs year after year, he is just as effective as most stud WRs.
  27. olschool

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    The reason why they come up short, is that this offense runs into defenses that MAKE them come up short.

    If the Pats defense could have held the Ravens to 12 points on Sunday, we wouldn't be having this discussion, we'd be waiting for the Superbowl.
  28. Rob0729

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    The problem with this hypothetical is that is something that would never happen. We will never have this option. Megatron is never going to leave Detriot.

    Yes, if Detriot was going to trade Megatron for Gronk straight up I say go for it. Never will happen, but sure. I have said that Gronk is just as much an impact on the offense and requires just as much attention as MOST stud WRs EXCEPT Magatron, Larry Fitzgerald, and maybe a few others.

    If you were going to rank all receivers no matter the position (both WRs and TEs), I would put Gronk in the 5-10 range while Megatron would be #1.
  29. Rob0729

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    +10000. The current Pats offense with a much better defense would more likely win the Super Bowl than the Pats' offense with the addition of a stud WR and only minor upgrades to the defense.
  30. Brady_to_Moss

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    that's what i am talking about..just say a strait up trade..i would hope people would pick johnson so long as we have other TEs (ballard and ahern)
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