Sources: Saints' GM could eavesdrop on opposing coaches during home games

[Patriot_in_NY]

This is one point of confusion for the saints fans. Goodell seems like he does not want the saints problems to go away.
Its almost like the NFL is dragging is feet to suspend any saints player, seeing as they haven't even talked to one player on the team yet for months, and they would need to if that player appealed their decision in court.
I mean, if Goodell suspended me, I would probably take the NFL to court as an employee of the corporation. That's lost wages.
We just can not figure out why its taking so long. The NFL says they have all the evidence they need. So, whats the hold up?

Of it could be that Goodell is just a narcissistic d-bag who just loves holding the axe over the head of an entire organization. We know he likes to do it to individual coaches in the case of fines and stuff. Doing it to an entire organization probably brings this to a whole new level of stimulation for him.

 

[Steve102]

Of it could be that Goodell is just a narcissistic d-bag who just loves holding the axe over the head of an entire organization. We know he likes to do it to individual coaches in the case of fines and stuff. Doing it to an entire organization probably brings this to a whole new level of stimulation for him.

I see him as the ultimate lawyer. Every I dotted and T crossed before decisions are made. Leave the opponent little options re: lawsuits. Any pressure or stress felt by the opponent is purely a byproduct of the legal wranglings. Welcome? Sure. Intended? Sure.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Ours had NO impat on the game.

You are arguing that we must have done something awfiul because of the penalty.
I am pointing out that what the Jets did was clearly worse, and they received no penalty.
This refutes your argument that we must have done something awful because of the amount we were penalized.
You just agreed with that, so it would appear we can dismiss the argument that it was worse than it was because the penalty says so.

Amen brother.

In fact the punishment for the Patriots was because Belichick more or less ignored a memo from the Commissioner clarifying the rule and making clear that sideline taping for gameday use was not allowed.

The Commissioner did not like Belichick taking the literal meaning of the memo that if he were going to analyze the tapes AFTER the game for use in future games, it was ok.

The punishment was meant to make clear that you mindlessly follow the directive of the Commissioner or suffer the consequences in fines and lost draft picks. The punishment was not to penalize the Patriots for having their cameras in the wrong location.

Many NFL fans and even Patriots fans seem to have missed this nuance.

For the Commissioner's part, his mandates for things like injury reports that put vulnerable players at risk are beginning to erode his credibility. I wouldn't put it past him to want to see this new scandal divert attention from his own injury reporting policy that was used to put players in harms way.

 

[pherein]

My gut is the relationship with the NFLPA is the hold up. I am sure the last thing they want is to go to court again. I would guess the league wants to drop the hammer on these guys and somehow come out smelling like a rose with the union. I don't see how they could manage it, but it would not surprise me to think the arrogance of the league offices would make them think that the NFLPA should be on their side on this.

Pure speculation on my part. The joys of being a fan.

This is how I would like to think. I agree its the NFL's job to protect the league, and the NFLPA's job to stand by the players. So, they will rarely agree on a lot of issues, and the time might be understandable.
The confusion is that why won't the the NFL show the NFLPA all the damning evidence, and why are they not interviewing our players?
Is the NFL somehow bared from talking to Vilma, Greer, or Harper? I don't know.
Did the NFL interview the staff of NE during spygate? I don't remember.

 

[JoeSixPat]

I see him as the ultimate lawyer. Every I dotted and T crossed before decisions are made. Leave the opponent little options re: lawsuits. Any pressure or stress felt by the opponent is purely a byproduct of the legal wranglings. Welcome? Sure. Intended? Sure.

Correct. And when a football coach like Belichick out-lawyered the League's top lawyer by pointing out that his 2006 memo allowed sideline taping as long as it was not for use on game day, Goodell responded as one probably should have expected.

... Fines nearly as large as those assessed to the Broncos for cheating on the salary cap and the loss of a draft pick.

 

[BradyFTW!]

I wasn't being an "ass" I was pointing out a fact. My point is that the NFL would not fine BB $500,000 and dock us draft picks without damning evidence. Just get over it man, we cheated and got caught.

I wasn't referring to the original camera placement infraction. I was referring to the subsequent accusation, which ESPN ran with, that Matt Walsh taped the Rams' walkthrough. You stated that ESPN would not air a story without a lot of evidence, I pointed out a story that they ran with no supporting evidence at all. If there's an allegation, it will hit and stay on their front page if it's salacious enough, with or without any actual evidence. That's it. Spygate has nothing to do with it. I've been very clear on what I was referring to in my previous post.

At this point, if you can't understand that then you're either being obstinate or you're alarmingly lacking in reading comprehension.

You only have to look five years into the past of your "own team"* for indisputable proof that ESPN can and absolutely will air completely unsupported allegations, yet you still refuse to believe it.

*own team in quotes because I'm pretty sure that you're not a Pats fan, but a lame attempt at a troll account instead. We get a lot of these types for some reason.

 

[PatsWSB47]

With all due respect, you just sound bitter about the 18-1 season, I've seen video that clearly shows we taped teams signals DURING GAMES, forget the walkthrough. Not to mention the NFL destroyed most of the tapes, we can only imagine what those tapes held. While the timing of the release was unfortunate, are you seriously going to blame our Superbowl loss on ESPN? The allegations were not fabricated, the entire world is not conspiring against the Patriots. We broke the rules, and we have paid dearly for it, it's too bad that you just can't let it go. By the way, the "herald" is not the end all be all, regardless of their retraction.

I heard this logic from a couple of jokers on ESPN this morning. Apparently it wouldn't be said unless you felt Goodell and the Patriots were both part of a conspiracy.

I'd love to let it go, but when you and other Patriot haters(don't believe you're a fan) are fueled by pure speculation and feel the need to bring up the destroyed tapes every single time another team is accused of something I find it impossible.

Cripes a team could be accused of raping the entire cheerleader squad and some national idiot would say yeah but who knows what was on those Patriot tapes Goodell destroyed.

 

[Wolfpack]

Of it could be that Goodell is just a narcissistic d-bag who just loves holding the axe over the head of an entire organization. We know he likes to do it to individual coaches in the case of fines and stuff. Doing it to an entire organization probably brings this to a whole new level of stimulation for him.

Yeah! How dare that narcissistic d-bag conduct a thorough investigation and due diligence before dishing out penalties to the players, who are thoroughly represented by a union that will go after Goodell if he does anything less than dotting all the i's and crossing all the t's! It's the offseason and we demand a final verdict immediately! Due diligence be damned!

 

[condon84]

ESPN needs to come out with proof to show that all these recent allegations are true. As far as I'm concerned, they're just creating stories instead of reporting them. They are just piling because the Saints are riped for the picking. F ESPN.

 

[Deus Irae]

ESPN needs to come out with proof to show that all these recent allegations are true. As far as I'm concerned, they're just creating stories instead of reporting them. They are just piling because the Saints are riped for the picking. F ESPN.

Read the article.

Jim Letten, the U.S. attorney for the Eastern District of Louisiana, acknowledged being told of the allegations Friday and a spokeswoman says the FBI's New Orleans office is aware of the allegations.

Sources: New Orleans Saints' Mickey Loomis could eavesdrop on opposing coaches during home games - ESPN

ESPN is covered.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Welcome to the grim reality of the modern media-driven world.

Like Spygate, this is small potatoes. It happens all the time. This is sports; it's a game; the type of techniques employed by the Saints (not causing injuries, but spying) should be applauded for their brilliance. Who says that professional sports should be decided 100% "on the field." I think it's great to see the lengths that organizations will go to in order to get a competitive edge.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Welcome to the grim reality of the modern media-driven world.

Like Spygate, this is small potatoes. It happens all the time. This is sports; it's a game; the type of techniques employed by the Saints (not causing injuries, but spying) should be applauded for their brilliance. Who says that professional sports should be decided 100% "on the field." I think it's great to see the lengths that organizations will go to in order to get a competitive edge.

I'm certainly not going to applaud the brilliance of violating federal wiretapping laws and having a direct line to the opposing coaching staff. That said, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that every team in the league does it--a sentiment that I had before these allegations came out--so this story isn't exactly a game-changer for me. Everything that we know about this type of gamesmanship indicates that there's a ton going on behind the scenes that we just don't know about.

 

[Patriot_in_NY]

Yeah! How dare that narcissistic d-bag conduct a thorough investigation and due diligence before dishing out penalties to the players, who are thoroughly represented by a union that will go after Goodell if he does anything less than dotting all the i's and crossing all the t's! It's the offseason and we demand a final verdict immediately! Due diligence be damned!

He does it every week (usually within 4 days of the infraction) without fail when he hands out player/coach penalties in the form of fines, from everything from wearing the wrong hat to players that lay illegal hits in a game........

Why are they illegal again........ Oh yeah, because they have great potential for injuring other players and potential effecting their careers. That is what we are talking about, right? Players conspiring to injury other players for money. If he had enough evidence to hand down his sentence to the team, coaches, and GM involved, then he has enough evidence to pass his almighty judgement down on the players.

Just do it already so the Saints, and NO in general can start moving forward instead of being held in limbo. Stick up for the guy if you want, but he is still a monumental narcissistic d-dag.

 

[PatsSox363804]

I swore off ESPN during Spygate and have done a pretty good job of not watching it unless the Pats, Sox, or Celtics were playing on their network however I was just in a store that had it on and it reminded me exactly why I stopped. When speaking of this story they are presenting it as if it's a fact much like the Rams walkthrough and in one breath someone is arguing that the Saints wouldnt be able to decipher the audio signals in time and with the other saying the Patriots had halftime to decipher the hand signals, you know a whole 12 minutes. They are just appallingly bad.

 

[ivanvamp]

I swore off ESPN during Spygate and have done a pretty good job of not watching it unless the Pats, Sox, or Celtics were playing on their network however I was just in a store that had it on and it reminded me exactly why I stopped. When speaking of this story they are presenting it as if it's a fact much like the Rams walkthrough and in one breath someone is arguing that the Saints wouldnt be able to decipher the audio signals in time and with the other saying the Patriots had halftime to decipher the hand signals, you know a whole 12 minutes. They are just appallingly bad.

They are bad for a lot of reasons. Their reporting of the Syracuse basketball situation (Bernie Fine) was almost a criminal offense. Their handling of spygate was atrocious. And, as you point out here, the way they've handled this situation compared with spygate is unbelievable.

But really, the fact that they reported this at all is irresponsible, IMO. Why? Because there's virtually no way to prove this. It happened a long time ago, there is no evidence, and the Superdome was redone after Katrina so the booths are different now....no way to know at all if this is true.

All it ends up being is the passing on of rumors and hearsay. And it can, like in the Bernie Fine situation, potentially ruin careers. Someone at ESPN needs to be held accountable.

 

[Wolfpack]

He does it every week (usually within 4 days of the infraction) without fail when he hands out player/coach penalties in the form of fines, from everything from wearing the wrong hat to players that lay illegal hits in a game........

You are totally comparing apples and oranges here. During the season there is an entirely different time table. Furthermore, those sorts of hits are on camera for everyone to see. There's no need to conduct an investigationg or anything like that when all he needs to do is look at the videotape and determine the severity of the hit.

 

[Patriot_in_NY]

You are totally comparing apples and oranges here. During the season there is an entirely different time table. Furthermore, those sorts of hits are on camera for everyone to see. There's no need to conduct an investigationg or anything like that when all he needs to do is look at the videotape and determine the severity of the hit.

I would agree with that, but he has already passed judgement on this quite awhile back with the team, coach and GM. He had the evidence then. He's just dragging it out.

 

[Ivan]

Of it could be that Goodell is just a narcissistic d-bag who just loves holding the axe over the head of an entire organization. We know he likes to do it to individual coaches in the case of fines and stuff. Doing it to an entire organization probably brings this to a whole new level of stimulation for him.

I'm no big fan of Goodell but he really can't win with some of you. Goodell is taking time to work this through with the players union so that when the sentences come down they don't bog down for eternity with dissent from the union, which would lead to all sorts of time spent on reviews and appeals and keep the issue from ever dying. These types of player penalties en masse have never been dished out before so he has to be really careful about how they relate to each other and how they effect the team. He can't just suspend their entire defense for the first 2-8 games he has to carefully measure how severe they are in relation to each other and then parcel them out in such a way that the Saints have some reasonable way to deal with them as a franchise. This has to be one of the most difficult matters he has ever had to deal with and rule on and I think he is making the smart move by taking his time and carefully approaching all the fines and suspensions.

 

[pherein]

I'm no big fan of Goodell but he really can't win with some of you. Goodell is taking time to work this through with the players union so that when the sentences come down they don't bog down for eternity with dissent from the union, which would lead to all sorts of time spent on reviews and appeals and keep the issue from ever dying.

How is Goodell working WITH the NFLPA when he won't let them see all the evidence they need to make a proper judgement call ?

..and the only evidence they have seen puts them at odds with his ruling. Its like a police officer telling a jury "that man killed his wife, and we have the gun and tape of him doing it"..." Oh, but we can't show you that" lol

 

[condon84]

Read the article.


Sources: New Orleans Saints' Mickey Loomis could eavesdrop on opposing coaches during home games - ESPN

ESPN is covered.

The quote continues:

If proved, the allegations could be both a violation of NFL rules and potentially a federal crime, according to legal sources. The federal Electronic Communications Privacy Act (ECPA) of 1986 prohibits any person from intercepting communications from another person using an electronic or mechanical device.

From reading that article, while it may be true that Muller had a wiring device so he could eavesdrop on the Saints coaching staff, the inside source claims that Loomis re-wired the device to allow him to listen to opposing coaches. This un-named source needs to come out with proof that Loomis did do what he allegedly did. Otherwise I'm calling BS. Just like ESPN reported that we allegedly video taped the Rams walkthrough practice before the SB.