Some Reality Regarding Our Defense

[PATSYLICIOUS]

One small step for mankind
One giant leapppPERSPECTIVE

 

[reflexblue]

:violent:.........opcorn:

 

[NEP4Life]

The only positive is Clay Matthews hasn't been discussed for the last few weeks.

HEY! I just found out the Patriots could have drafted Clay Matthews!

I mean CLAY FREAKIN MATTHEWS.

I AM OUTRAGED, because surely the Pats knew how good Matthews was going to be, and they only avoided drafting him to spite me personally, and force me to vent my spleen on the internet.

GRRR!

 

[everlong]

Why am I being brought into this? All I've done is respond to Smessy's "perspective" comment on something that didn't need perspective because it was just a common sense stat addition to a previous post. I didn't call anyone a douche, and I didn't demean anyone. From what I can read of this part of the thread, the person who used the word is someone I have on ignore.

Apparently it was an inline quote that appeared to be you. I replied earlier but it was either deleted by a mod because I quoted the bad word or because my connection timed out and I didn't realize it. Either way sorry for the confusion.

 

[Deus Irae]

20th out of 32 is not "bad". It is not bad for a team that has played 75% on the road and against 3 top-10 offenses.

By your measures, the 3-1 Redskins are a top team (nailbiter tight wins over 1-7 Arizona and St Louis.). Perspective is important.

You're using comments to the media by Patriot players for your "insight". Wow! Because we all know how the Pats players are coached to speak their minds to the media! That's classic, Deus - thanks for the entertainment. Give us a link to the last Patriot player who said to the media "I am performing great".

There is a real world outside of your little stat sheet that actually gives those of us with the eyes to see it actual........get ready for it........PERSPECTIVE!

You confuse your personal take with "perspective", Smessy. As you well know, it's not just Patriots players noting that McCourty and the secondary have been 'struggling'. In fact, given that I'm taking such analysis into account, that would be an example me looking at extra evidence to avoid looking at this from Just one .... get ready for it.....


PERSPECTIVE!


I think it's cute that you try to personalize it to me, though, given that I'm nowhere near alone when it comes to my take on either McCourty or the defense.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Either way sorry for the confusion.

Your welcome for the perspective

 

[Deus Irae]

Apparently it was an inline quote that appeared to be you. I replied earlier but it was either deleted by a mod because I quoted the bad word or because my connection timed out and I didn't realize it. Either way sorry for the confusion.

No problem. The main reason I was responding to your post the way I did was really because I couldn't read what was being said since it was coming from someone I've got on ignore, so I wanted to emphasize that none of it was from my posts. Normally, I'd just have gone a much shorter version of "wasn't me".

 

[NYCPatsFan]

So, basically, you want us to ban Deus Irae because you don't agree with his point of vew?

I don't agree with what he's saying either. But no, PFiP, that's not how it works.
In life, people don't always agree with each other.

I started to laugh when I realized that that kid, sorry, that fan in Pittsburgh is attempting to complain to Ian in public and mentions "civility statutes".

Shmessy - Please encourage that fan to do so instead of trying to point out realities of life.

Your wise words will no doubt fall on deaf ears because the only trait - other than a remarkably pathetic level of civility - that that poster proudly exhibits is arrogance.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

The reality is you can tell from they're Body Language that they aren't playing well.....yet.

I agree, they know they stink.

So after offically hitting the nadir as the last ranked defense in the NFL, there is no where to go but up from here. Fat chance of that happening anyt time soon!

There is no panecea for what ills this defense. What next year's defense really needs is:

1.) BB to change his philosphy on OLB/DE types and start drafting these type guys.
2.) A DC! BB is wearing eight hats and spread way too thin. PS: Not Mangini!
3.) Tap the Alabama pipeline! Saban is cranking out tons of super talented defenders that KNOW OUR DEFENSE!

The problem is that BB the GM is too stubborn, too DE/OLB-phobic and too committed to veterans which is causing BB the coach to death spiral with the NFL's worst defense.

 

[shmessy]

I agree, they know they stink.

So after offically hitting the nadir as the last ranked defense in the NFL, there is no where to go but up from here. Fat chance of that happening anyt time soon!

There is no panecea for what ills this defense. What next year's defense really needs is:

1.) BB to change his philosphy on OLB/DE types and start drafting these type guys.
2.) A DC! BB is wearing eight hats and spread way too thin. PS: Not Mangini!
3.) Tap the Alabama pipeline! Saban is cranking out tons of super talented defenders that KNOW OUR DEFENSE!

The problem is that BB the GM is too stubborn, too DE/OLB-phobic and too committed to veterans which is causing BB the coach to death spiral with the NFL's worst defense.

Evidently, Ochmed Jones believes there are only 20 teams in the NFL.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

HEY! I just found out the Patriots could have drafted Clay Matthews!

I mean CLAY FREAKIN MATTHEWS.

I AM OUTRAGED, because surely the Pats knew how good Matthews was going to be, and they only avoided drafting him to spite me personally, and force me to vent my spleen on the internet.

GRRR!

4

BB was going to go that direction. Adam Seward said, NO!

He felt it was more important to stick it many posters at patsfans.com

 

[PatsBoy12]

Here is the stat of last season's Patriots playoff game 0-0-0.
0 QB pressures
0 QB hits
0 QB Sacks

You cannot win games by throwing an effort like that at the opposing team. Look at the Buffalo game, look at last week's Raiders game, no pressure equals 100+ QB ratings.

That's why I didn't even bother to respond. People act like the criticism of this defense is somehow unwarranted. It's amazing to me.

 

[shmessy]

That's why I didn't even bother to respond. People act like the criticism of this defense is somehow unwarranted. It's amazing to me.

Patsboy, there is a difference between criticizing this defense - - which is certainly warranted and some here who have called it the "worst ranked in the NFL".

You posted agreeing with a poster who wrote: "You CANNOT WIN (emph mine) games by throwing an effort like that at the opposing team. Look at the Buffalo game, look at last week's Raiders game, no pressure equals 100+ QB ratings."

Well guess the hell what? The Pats DID in fact beat the Raiders!!!! And they came within a hair of beating Buffalo. That guy flatly stated you CANNOT win games with the D playing like that. Now how can those words be correct? Those two games show indeed you can! Could it catch up withthe Pats if that D doesn't improve? You bet it could. Every season is a process. Look at 2001. Look at 2010. Teams evolve during the season.

 

[reflexblue]

I agree, they know they stink.

So after offically hitting the nadir as the last ranked defense in the NFL, there is no where to go but up from here. Fat chance of that happening anyt time soon!

There is no panecea for what ills this defense. What next year's defense really needs is:

1.) BB to change his philosphy on OLB/DE types and start drafting these type guys.
2.) A DC! BB is wearing eight hats and spread way too thin. PS: Not Mangini!
3.) Tap the Alabama pipeline! Saban is cranking out tons of super talented defenders that KNOW OUR DEFENSE!

The problem is that BB the GM is too stubborn, too DE/OLB-phobic and too committed to veterans which is causing BB the coach to death spiral with the NFL's worst defense.

Although i agree with everything you say i wasn't serious about the body language. I was trying to intergect some leavity there seemed to be a Tiff going on.

Regarding point 1.) BB has Never taken and OLB in the first or second round since hes been here. The only one he has taken (cunningham) was in the third. I find this kind of strange.

Point 2.) I agree, he needs to deligate athority, the situation reminds me of his Cleveland days.

Point 3.) i dont' have enough of an opinion to say for sure, but Bama is turning out a lot of great players

 

[FCB02062]

The reality is the Patriots defense is in the bottom third in passing defense, rushing defense, scoring defense, yards per play, total yards, sacks, and just about everything else. This is simply de rigueur for this defense. What has saved them from being an 8-8 or 9-7 team - yes, their other worldly offense of late, but more importantly - turnover margin. The Patriots have been at the top of the league for the last few years in that category - and they're right back at it again.
I've said it for many years, yes, getting all these picks is awesome, but it masks how bad this defense really is. Back in the "super bowl years", the team had a "decent" defense, made pretty damn good thanks to a high +/-. But, those teams could pressure the quarterback, and this Pats edition has shown ZERO ability to do that....

 

[E Belichick Unum]

Ahhh no, complete, utter nonsense.

These teams are not good offensively, are not well coached, nor are they adapt at scoring points. Also, none of the four have shown any particular ability to play defense.

Both San Diego and Oakland are better than all four of these teams.

We must be watching different leagues. Are you telling me that Rex Ryan isn't a good coach? That Tomlin, a guy who has been to multiple Super Bowls isn't a good coach? That the Giants are not a well coached team? That the Cowboys can't score points? What planet are you watching your football on?

What all of those teams have in common, besides being able to score points, is that they like to hit. They are physical and imposing and exactly the kind of team that the Patriots have trouble with. Next time you want to comment, make sure you actually have an idea about what you are commenting on.

 

[E Belichick Unum]

Patsboy, there is a difference between criticizing this defense - - which is certainly warranted and some here who have called it the "worst ranked in the NFL".

You posted agreeing with a poster who wrote: "You CANNOT WIN (emph mine) games by throwing an effort like that at the opposing team. Look at the Buffalo game, look at last week's Raiders game, no pressure equals 100+ QB ratings."

Well guess the hell what? The Pats DID in fact beat the Raiders!!!! And they came within a hair of beating Buffalo. That guy flatly stated you CANNOT win games with the D playing like that. Now how can those words be correct? Those two games show indeed you can! Could it catch up withthe Pats if that D doesn't improve? You bet it could. Every season is a process. Look at 2001. Look at 2010. Teams evolve during the season.

This defense sucks and making excuses for it just gives them the ability to avoid critisism. When the defense is ranked 31 out of 32 it mans that they suck, not that they are "evolving". The only reason the Patriots won any of these games is because Tom Brady is the best in the game, bt on those days when Tom isn't at his best, this D will not win that game in spite of the QB, and sometimes that is what is necessary. A team might get lucky in a few games, maybe out score or out take away the opposition, but over a 16 game season and the playoffs, you can't win with this defense.

As for the ZERO-ZERO-ZERO box score, last years defense was better than this one, so pointing out that couldn't do anything in the playoff last year is just a comparison to what could happen this year. This is a week to week league. The Pats have been lucky to date. They could have just as easily lost to Oakland last week as not. The turnover just before the half was huge, as was Chungs interception. Red zone defense is nice, but it only works sometimes. The turnovers in the red zone were lucky, and you can't rely on luck if you want to win.

I watch the game every week, and I make the assessment based on history to that point, not based on a fictional metamorphosis into a good defense at some point in the future. Belichick is fond of saying tha you are what you are, and whatthis defense is is embarrasing.

 

[shmessy]

We must be watching different leagues. Are you telling me that Rex Ryan isn't a good coach? That Tomlin, a guy who has been to multiple Super Bowls isn't a good coach? That the Giants are not a well coached team? That the Cowboys can't score points? What planet are you watching your football on?

What all of those teams have in common, besides being able to score points, is that they like to hit. They are physical and imposing and exactly the kind of team that the Patriots have trouble with. Next time you want to comment, make sure you actually have an idea about what you are commenting on.

Oakland scoring against common opponents:

Awesome "Physical" Jets D: 38 points McFadden 170 yds rushing

"Worst D in the NFL": 20 points (13 until 2 minute garabage time) McFadden 75 yds rushing

The Jets have faced Cade McKnown, Tony Romo (we ALL saw how stupid he was that night), Jason Campbell and Joe Flacco.

The Pats at least have faced Fitzpatrick and Rivers - - two QB's on a different level than anyone the Jets have faced.

 

[bigfandan]

Some reality:

1. This defense is not good enough; you can combine it with the very best NFL offense (ours, Greenbay's, Saints'), and it still won't go any where; not good enough to win AFC, let alone SB. As peter King said, "it will ruin their season." You can Book it.

2. The sooner Pats org realizes it, and tries to change it, the better. It should take someone higher in the chain, like RK or JK to force it on BB (or slap him silly). Clearly BB does not see it. He had run through 30 DLs and 30 DBs in last 3 years; can't pin it on players forever, can you?

3. Real change in defense scheme is much needed. BB is not the solution anymore. New coordinator with same personnel can make dramatic difference. Michigan D was ranked 110th last two years (Greg Robinson), it is in top ten under Greg Mattison, first year on job. Same players, different scheme. Dramatic improvement. Same thing with Houston under Wade Phillips.

4. It needs a catalyst for change. Maybe we lose next 2-3 games in a row, where D gives 450+ yards per game, and gives up 3rd down conversions 80%+, and gives up 30+ points per game. Change is needed. To not change is to fail for certain.

If losing a few in an embarrassing way is the price to pay for us to get a decent defense, fine. I will take 10-6 just making playoff, playing tough D, versus a finesse 14-2 team like last year. What did Steelers, Giants, and Greenbay do recently? 6th seed, tough D with opportunistic O, wildcard all the way SB victory.

What did we do? Finesse, #1 seed, 0-2 playoff at home, blown out fashion. Sanchez 127 QB rating.

If BB don't understand it, too bad for NE fans, and too bad for BK, and TB. TB deserve a tough D that can play playoff football. Not a soft D that can give up a 21-3 lead (ala 2006 AFC champhionship).