Slater to Return in 2023

[Sicilian]

Not really want I'm talking about. He got beat, that happens, that's not a blown coverage in the sense I was describing. Also we don't need to rehash where the problems were in the secondary for THAT game.

 

[crawhammer]

Not really a blown coverage. McCourty was there, made the tackle but Ertz extended. A blown coverage is where a guy is wide open and walks in.

McCourty's positioning the secondary on that play, there seems to be some confusion, and there's no way McCourty should have left himself in isolation with Ertz.

Reminds me of this play...


How on Earth is 5'9" Hobbs left in isolation coverage on 6'5" Plaxico!?! That was a clear TD pre-snap... I called it from my living room. WTF was the Patriots sideline looking at?

 

[Ian]

McCourty's positioning the secondary on that play, there seems to be some confusion, and there's no way McCourty should have left himself in isolation with Ertz.

I'm with @Sicilian - I don't want to talk about that game, either.

 

[Steve102]

I'm with @Sicilian - I don't want to talk about that game, either.

I don't want to talk about either of those games. Ever.

 

[RobertWeathers]

God this thread needs to be shut down.

 

[Hammer of Thor]

God this thread needs to be shut down.

Maybe we can kill two birds with one stone and merge into the Malcolm Butler Mega Thread?

 

[Ian]

11 pages to argue about somebody as terrific as Slater and the minimal effect those contributions play in wins and losses. And that it was Brady who made all these guys look great.

 

[JackBauer]

people seem to conveniently forget how long this team was desperately searching for a free safety until they landed McCourty

Yet our illustrious Triumph spent the entirety of McCourty's career insisting on this board that he wasn't/isn't a starting caliber safety.

 

[Tunescribe]

God this thread needs to be shut down.

 

[1960Pats]

people seem to conveniently forget how long this team was desperately searching for a free safety until they landed McCourty

DMac is one of the Patriots that doesn't get the respect he deserves

One of the most respected HS coaches in this area that I talked with preferred DMac over everyone else, including Brady.

 

[1960Pats]

11 pages to argue about somebody as terrific as Slater and the minimal effect those contributions play in wins and losses. And that it was Brady who made all these guys look great.

I want to chime in on this discussion about Slater. I think that @crawhammer is on the right track with how less of a factor STs are. How many times in a game does Slater even step on the field? Not enough in my mind to even be mentioned for the HOF (which has become a joke anyway). And why exactly is he listed as a WR? Has he ever caught a pass? I see Slater playing a position that could be easily filled with another younger player who's able to do more jobs than Slater.

 

[slash83]

Good, hopefully Dmac comes back too.

 

[Steve102]

View attachment 50115

 

[h0c2000]

Look at the last one you circled. 9 play drive in the 4th quarter taking up 5 minutes of the clock in a tie game. Yet the Rams still punted from their own 30 yard line! That led to the Patriots starting their next drive at their own 31 (best field position we had in the 2nd half until the shanked Rams FG attempt with 5 seconds left). Which just so happened to be the drive the Patriots scored their only TD. All set up by Slater disrupting enough to lead to a punt downed at the 7. Thanks Matthew Slater!

I just re-watched this punt you mentioned. From the Rams 43 at 14:57 of the 4th. Please tell me what impact Slater had on that play that changed the outcome?

I'm indifferent on resigning Slater, it's a safe resign to me. Low risk, low reward.

You didn't look at that article and/or watch what he did that they highlighted. Go look at it and watch the videos - I mean really look at it, don't pretend you did and then not do it - and rethink the bolded portion above.

Especially when you look at the Rams' starting field position in the second half:

View attachment 50086

He was the guy responsible for a lot of that.

So your point is that Slater is responsible for the majority of the outcome of the 3 plays you circled? My belief is that Ryan Allen was more important to the outcome of all 3 plays you circled. The last one is 100% Allen.

 

[Hammer of Thor]

I just re-watched this punt you mentioned. From the Rams 43 at 14:57 of the 4th. Please tell me what impact Slater had on that play that changed the outcome?

Hopefully the link works, it’s 1:24:09 of the video. First of all, it was a phenomenal punt, Allen needs a ton of kudos here. I can’t emphasize that enough. But in general - Rams decided to single-cover Slater, which not surprisingly is a mistake.

- Slater beats his man decisively
- Rams returner Natson sees Slater coming, decides not to field it (may not have done so anyway given the location, but Slater clinched it)
- He then decides to peel off the ball and go straight for Slater instead, trying to prevent him from downing it, and throws a block on him
- The Ram who is blocking Crossen sees this and peels off Crossen, heading toward Natson and Slater
- Wide open lane left for Crossen and Cardona, and the ball bounces right at them
- Cardona is the one who downs it

Obviously this doesn’t happen without a great punt by Allen including the necessary backspin. But the choices made impacted the outcome:

- Slater doesn’t beat his man, Natson may decide to catch instead of peeling off and blocking Slater.
- Why would Natson do that with Crossen also coming on the other side? His blocker now actually tries to block him instead of changing his angle to support Natson against Slater.
- Cardona is the latecomer to this, not in picture yet. Slater blocked, Crossen blocked, now Natson now has running room to return it if he chooses to field the punt. Might be able to pick up 10-15 yards from the 2 and bring it to the 12-17 yard line instead of the 7.
- Maybe he still decides to let it bounce. But he decides to support the opposite side instead - to assist against Cardona eventually coming free. That happens to be the side the ball bounces to. Crossen and Cardona blocked, the ball might have been downed at the 10 instead of the 7 (ball was slowing down)

Again, Allen had the biggest impact on that play, it was about as perfect of a punt as you can get. But Slater had the 2nd biggest impact, and there are a few extra yards there they directly got because of him. And if that punt wasn’t perfect? Slater did his job so well that the Rams probably get the ball in the same position. That’s Slater’s impact on plays even where someone else excels.

 

[Steve102]

Hopefully the link works, it’s 1:24:09 of the video. First of all, it was a phenomenal punt, Allen needs a ton of kudos here. I can’t emphasize that enough. But in general - Rams decided to single-cover Slater, which not surprisingly is a mistake.

- Slater beats his man decisively
- Rams returner Natson sees Slater coming, decides not to field it (may not have done so anyway given the location, but Slater clinched it)
- He then decides to peel off the ball and go straight for Slater instead, trying to prevent him from downing it, and throws a block on him
- The Ram who is blocking Crossen sees this and peels off Crossen, heading toward Natson and Slater
- Wide open lane left for Crossen and Cardona, and the ball bounces right at them
- Cardona is the one who downs it

Obviously this doesn’t happen without a great punt by Allen including the necessary backspin. But the choices made impacted the outcome:

- Slater doesn’t beat his man, Natson may decide to catch instead of peeling off and blocking Slater.
- Why would Natson do that with Crossen also coming on the other side? His blocker now actually tries to block him instead of changing his angle to support Natson against Slater.
- Cardona is the latecomer to this, not in picture yet. Slater blocked, Crossen blocked, now Natson now has running room to return it if he chooses to field the punt. Might be able to pick up 10-15 yards from the 2 and bring it to the 12-17 yard line instead of the 7.
- Maybe he still decides to let it bounce. But he decides to support the opposite side instead - to assist against Cardona eventually coming free. That happens to be the side the ball bounces to. Crossen and Cardona blocked, the ball might have been downed at the 10 instead of the 7 (ball was slowing down)

Again, Allen had the biggest impact on that play, it was about as perfect of a punt as you can get. But Slater had the 2nd biggest impact, and there are a few extra yards there they directly got because of him. And if that punt wasn’t perfect? Slater did his job so well that the Rams probably get the ball in the same position. That’s Slater’s impact on plays even where someone else excels.

Special TEAMS. Football is the best team sport.

 

[h0c2000]

Hopefully the link works, it’s 1:24:09 of the video. First of all, it was a phenomenal punt, Allen needs a ton of kudos here. I can’t emphasize that enough. But in general - Rams decided to single-cover Slater, which not surprisingly is a mistake.

- Slater beats his man decisively
- Rams returner Natson sees Slater coming, decides not to field it (may not have done so anyway given the location, but Slater clinched it)
- He then decides to peel off the ball and go straight for Slater instead, trying to prevent him from downing it, and throws a block on him
- The Ram who is blocking Crossen sees this and peels off Crossen, heading toward Natson and Slater
- Wide open lane left for Crossen and Cardona, and the ball bounces right at them
- Cardona is the one who downs it

Obviously this doesn’t happen without a great punt by Allen including the necessary backspin. But the choices made impacted the outcome:

- Slater doesn’t beat his man, Natson may decide to catch instead of peeling off and blocking Slater.
- Why would Natson do that with Crossen also coming on the other side? His blocker now actually tries to block him instead of changing his angle to support Natson against Slater.
- Cardona is the latecomer to this, not in picture yet. Slater blocked, Crossen blocked, now Natson now has running room to return it if he chooses to field the punt. Might be able to pick up 10-15 yards from the 2 and bring it to the 12-17 yard line instead of the 7.
- Maybe he still decides to let it bounce. But he decides to support the opposite side instead - to assist against Cardona eventually coming free. That happens to be the side the ball bounces to. Crossen and Cardona blocked, the ball might have been downed at the 10 instead of the 7 (ball was slowing down)

Again, Allen had the biggest impact on that play, it was about as perfect of a punt as you can get. But Slater had the 2nd biggest impact, and there are a few extra yards there they directly got because of him. And if that punt wasn’t perfect? Slater did his job so well that the Rams probably get the ball in the same position. That’s Slater’s impact on plays even where someone else excels.

I'm not giving Slater credit for not being blocked. He ran 45 yards unblocked. He did his job and it was an easy job. There is nothing exceptional about Slater on that play. If the Rams were so concerned about Slater, he would have been double teamed.

The returner quit or was told under no circumstances to field it inside the 10. Again, no credit to Slater for that.

Unless Slater is Allen's golf buddy and taught him the intricacies of punting, Slater had a marginal not 0 but close to it impact on that play in my opinion.

As a gluton for punishment, I went back and watched every punt & kick.
1st Rams kick, moved his man off the play, good pick up on the return, Plus play from 18 for making a block
First Rams punt, slater missed the block, JE11 tacked for a loss
2nd Rams punt, oob, no impact from 18
1st Pats punt, 18 downs a punt that was going OOB. Sure great play but no impact on the play
3rd Rams punt, punt blown dead after ball stopped. No impact from 18
1st Pats kickoff, blocked out of the play, ball return about 27 yards
4th Rams punt, made a decent block on his man, no impact on the outcome of the play
2nd Pats punt, 18 misses the tackle, results in a 12 yard return, negative play from 18
5th rams punt, looks like 18 peels into defender role for trick play, punt downed by Rams, no impact by 18
should have kicked the FG on 4th and 1. Why Bill Why?
6th Rams punt, Pats decide to not return punt. 18 no impact.
END OF HALF
2nd Pats Kick, touchback 18 no impact.
7th Rams punt fair catch inside the 10. 18 no impact.
3rd Pats punt - see above, nothing special - link did not jump here, so I'll cover that below
8th rams punt, don't know wtf 18 was doing, double teaming, his guy ran free. but no impact on the play as it went to opposite side, where it rolled for a good bit
4th pats punt- 18 single blocked made the tackle on the catch, positive play by 18
Jason McCourty Great Play!
5th Pats punt - 18 single blocked at the Rams 45 (this is the play I think you mention) this play is 99% Ryan Allen and 1% slater. Again no attempt by the Rams to field this, 18 had no impact on this play's outcome
9th rams punt, 18 doesn't block anyone but I think this is by design, Pats don't field a return here by design didn't want a penalty
Gronk
3rd pats kick, touchback 18 no impact
Gilmore
Brady, let's kick the ball here, jesus bill not that hard to figure out
Ghost Game
4th Pats kick, touchback, 18 no impact.

If I grade him on kicks and punts, he gets a C. Probably gets a B if he doesn't miss the open field tackle. Sorry color me not impressed. His play was what a 10 year vet should make.

 

[RobertWeathers]

If I grade him on kicks and punts, he gets a C. Probably gets a B if he doesn't miss the open field tackle. Sorry color me not impressed. His play was what a 10 year vet should make.

Are you serious?

The man has played in almost 250 NFL games and logged ~4500 snaps.

Your opinion of the man's body of work is based on one game?

Jesus.

 

[Hammer of Thor]

I'm not giving Slater credit for not being blocked. He ran 45 yards unblocked. He did his job and it was an easy job.

You watched this multiple times, you watch Slater ”not being blocked” because he beat his blocker so badly that you can still see the bruises 4 years later, and therefore you determine it was an easy job because he was “unblocked”?

Using that logic, Randy Moss wasn’t anything special on the Patriots. Anyone can get open deep if they run 45 yards “unblocked,” that’s an easy job.

Not going to respond to your other points since it‘s quite clear that you have a binary view of things. One thing happened, one person is responsible for it. Football is not baseball, there are no binary events in football. Everything is correlated, the actions one person takes impacts the actions another takes. There’s a reason why all coaches view things this way, not just Belichick.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

You're traveling through another dimension, a dimension not only of sight and sound but of mind. A journey into a wondrous land whose boundaries are defined by the NEP Jets and Bills games in 2022. Your next stop, realization that ST are important!