Slater to Return in 2023

[crawhammer]

Your words aren't being twisted. And if you think they are, quite frankly that's on you and how you present your argument. Use better words.

You said, and I quote
"Slater's best years don't amount to anything without all of Brady's brilliance and heroics throughout the entire course of Slater's career."

Do you get the inference you just made with "your words"?

By "anything" I mean the ultimate achievement of winning a Super Bowl. Without the rings, Slater would still have his career. Slater won a ring in 2014, 2016 and 2018. Brady was brilliant in 2014 and 2016 (should have won NFL MVP) and he was heroic in both postseason (including beating the Legion of Boom and then engineering the greatest comeback of all time). Brady obviously didn't do it alone, and every teammate who took a snap in either season was a relative factor, but I think it's fair to say Brady is very likely the only quarterback (in the league) of either season who could have pulled out those Super Bowl wins.

He was great in the 2018 AFC playoffs and again in particular only he could have pulled off those three consecutive 3rd-10s in OT @KAN. He had his quintessential 4th quarter game-winning drive in SB 53 but that was classic 'team effort' victory.

Ultimately, I never said Brady's teammates "didn't play a factor." I didn't make the inference either. Every single teammate who played in the games contributed to the overall success achieved by the team, i.e. played a factor. My contention is without Brady's contributions (which could not be duplicated by any other quarterback), his teammates aren't wearing (multiple) rings.

 

[Pape]

By "anything" I mean the ultimate achievement of winning a Super Bowl. Without the rings, Slater would still have his career. Slater won a ring in 2014, 2016 and 2018. Brady was brilliant in 2014 and 2016 (should have won NFL MVP) and he was heroic in both postseason (including beating the Legion of Boom and then engineering the greatest comeback of all time). Brady obviously didn't do it alone, and every teammate who took a snap in either season was a relative factor, but I think it's fair to say Brady is very likely the only quarterback (in the league) of either season who could have pulled out those Super Bowl wins.

He was great in the 2018 AFC playoffs and again in particular only he could have pulled off those three consecutive 3rd-10s in OT @KAN. He had his quintessential 4th quarter game-winning drive in SB 53 but that was classic 'team effort' victory.

Ultimately, I never said Brady's teammates "didn't play a factor." I didn't make the inference either. Every single teammate who played in the games contributed to the overall success achieved by the team, i.e. played a factor. My contention is without Brady's contributions (which could not be duplicated by any other quarterback), his teammates aren't wearing (multiple) rings.

But you did. No matter how you try and couch it now, thats just a rationalization after the fact.

You laid every success of everybody at the feet of Brady. And rendered the work of his teammates as inconsequential to his brilliance and heroics.

And it cant be duplicated? you got a guy in KC already on the road to doing just that.

last word from me craw. gonna mute you now.

 

[Steve102]

But you did. No matter how you try and couch it now, thats just a rationalization after the fact.

You laid every success of everybody at the feet of Brady. And rendered the work of his teammates as inconsequential to his brilliance and heroics.

And it cant be duplicated? you got a guy in KC already on the road to doing just that.

last word from me craw. gonna mute you now.

Let it go, my man.

 

[JarOfMayo51]

DMC isn't coming back for $10m AAV and I agree he isn't the player he once was.

However, seeing how over the last 4 years, hes played in every game and 94% of the snaps, averaged almost 4INTs, 8PDs and almost 70 tackles a year, i'm not sure that kind of production and dependability can be easily replaced.

people seem to conveniently forget how long this team was desperately searching for a free safety until they landed McCourty

DMac is one of the Patriots that doesn't get the respect he deserves

 

[Ian]

But you did. No matter how you try and couch it now, thats just a rationalization after the fact.

You laid every success of everybody at the feet of Brady. And rendered the work of his teammates as inconsequential to his brilliance and heroics.

And it cant be duplicated? you got a guy in KC already on the road to doing just that.

last word from me craw. gonna mute you now.

 

[crawhammer]

And it cant be duplicated? you got a guy in KC already on the road to doing just that.

Duplicated at the time. Like no other quarterback 2014-2018 could have replicated Brady's success.

Mahomes is great but he's a very long way from duplicating Brady's success. He's also permanently stuck on 0-2 vs Brady in the postseason.

But you did. No matter how you try and couch it now, thats just a rationalization after the fact.

I can't explain it with anymore detail. It's what I meant from the first I said it.

You laid every success of everybody at the feet of Brady. And rendered the work of his teammates as inconsequential to his brilliance and heroics.

Not inconsequential. That again is overstating what I said. If you're going to (falsely) reduce my argument down to Brady completely wiped out the importance of his teammates then there really is nothing left to say.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

people seem to conveniently forget how long this team was desperately searching for a free safety until they landed McCourty

DMac is one of the Patriots that doesn't get the respect he deserves

I agree that DMac is an all time Patriot, he will be very hard to replace. That said all good things come to an end and it feels like it is his time to move up to the broadcast booth. Last year was a step backward for him. There were a number of plays that seemed like mental mistakes where he gave up the last line of defense, starting with the end of the first half of the first game in Miami. I don't know if it is mental, or he started cheating to overcome a physical decline. Maybe a transition year in a lesser role is in the cards.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I'm gonna start calling you Sisyphus-Ian

 

[mgteich]

I agree that DMac is an all time Patriot, he will be very hard to replace. That said all good things come to an end and it feels like it is his time to move up to the broadcast booth. Last year was a step backward for him. There were a number of plays that seemed like mental mistakes where he gave up the last line of defense, starting with the end of the first half of the first game in Miami. I don't know if it is mental, or he started cheating to overcome a physical decline. Maybe a transition year in a lesser role is in the cards.

You seem to be saying that a player should retire when his effectiveness decreases.

From a team perspective, I strongly disagree. If a player can play at a level yo justify his compensation, then a team should want him to play, not retire.

To be blunt, we need to consider McCourty as a 2023 free safety. What would he coast and what is the cost of the alternative?
==============
There always those that want youth. They would cut McCourty and start Bledsoe. I think that approach is silly, at best. How often have we heard that we can draft 4th rounder and start him, or to count on finding an UDFA to be solid backup.

I', old-fashioned (maybe just old) enough to prefer Bill's approach of bringing in veterans like Phillips and Peppers.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

You seem to be saying that a player should retire when his effectiveness decreases.

From a team perspective, I strongly disagree. If a player can play at a level yo justify his compensation, then a team should want him to play, not retire.

To be blunt, we need to consider McCourty as a 2023 free safety. What would he coast and what is the cost of the alternative?
==============
There always that want youth. They would cut McCourty and start Bledsoe. I think that approach is silly, at best.

You seem emotional about the fact that it may be the end of the road for a long time great. DMac did not have a good year last year, noticeably worse than the previous year. There were many comments on this forum to that end. All I am saying is that time catches up to everyone, being in denial does not change that. From the cost perspective DMac was paid very well for the position. As others have stated, Mills seems like a potential replacement at a lower cost.

 

[Patsgofor4]

If I'm rankings (which I may) the most important Patriots players over the last 15 years then it'll be a quite awhile before Slater comes up for consideration.

Do you know who strongly disagrees with you?….The Patriots head coach during those 15 years, who is not only the GOAT head coach but who also knows more about special teams play than perhaps any head coach in NFL history.

Belichick heaps praise on McCourty, Slater after win vs. Dolphins

Patriots head coach Bill Belichick spoke highly of Devin McCourty and Matthew Slater after Sunday’s win over the Dolphins, which may have marked the longtime team captains’ final game at Gillette Stadium.

www.nbcsports.com

“I don't know if there's ever been or ever going to be a better player than Matt Slater as an overall special teams player, and the leadership he's brought to the team….”

Bill Belichick compared Matthew Slater to an NFL all-time great

Bill Belichick had high praise for Matthew Slater on Friday.

patriotswire.usatoday.com

“He’s the guy that everybody pays a lot of attention to,” said Belichick. “To the benefit of other players; they get less attention. But I think when you see players at that level — different, but literally, he gets it on every play. Just like Taylor got it on every play for the Giants. When you get that kind of attention and you’re still able to be productive, that tends to put those players on a very elite level.”

Imagine being so arrogant that you think that your opinion about Slater is spot-on and Belichick, who has spent more hours looking at All-22 special teams tape over the past 40 years than you could possibly fathom and has as much objective data as anyone in the league about what factors are most critical to team success in the NFL, doesn’t know what he is talking about when it comes to the importance of special teams play in general and the skill and value of Slater in particular.

Based upon your takes in this thread, nobody here should take you seriously about any topic going forward. One of the only downsides to Brady retiring is the fact that posters like you will be spending more time posting in the main forum, because you will no longer be able to rest your weary heads on the Tompa-Gronka thread’s bosom.

Now kindly stop wasting everyone’s time with your ridiculousness.

 

[Steve102]

@Patsgofor4

 

[mgteich]

You seem emotional about the fact that it may be the end of the road for a long time great. DMac did not have a good year last year, noticeably worse than the previous year. There were many comments on this forum to that end. All I am saying is that time catches up to everyone, being in denial does not change that. From the cost perspective DMac was paid very well for the position. As others have stated, Mills seems like a potential replacement at a lower cost.

fair enough.

I will restate

1) I agree that McCourty is likely to retire. However, there is a good chance that he comes back.

2) I don't want to move one of our starting CB to free safety. I would expect Belichick to acquire another safety as he has he did when he acquired Phillips and then Peppers. I think that moving Mills to free safety weakens us at both safety and corner.

3) Yes, when we signed Mills, I was one who expected him to move to free safety. However, he has done very well at corner.

BOTTOM LINE
I'm fine with McCourty retiring. However, if he does, I believe that Belichick will acquire a free safety, whether in free agency or with an early draft pick (if he cannot secure one in free agency).

 

[Sicilian]

people seem to conveniently forget how long this team was desperately searching for a free safety until they landed McCourty

DMac is one of the Patriots that doesn't get the respect he deserves

I'm trying to think of examples of times in the last several years where the Patriots secondary has really blown a coverage. They've gotten beat due to talent mismatches at times for sure, but you almost never see guys just running free because the coverage simply lost them. A lot goes into that, including coaching, but McCourty should get a lot of credit for that too. He basically tells the secondary where they should be.

Replacing that will be much harder than replacing his physical talents, though people underrate those at times as well.

 

[crawhammer]

Imagine being so arrogant that you think that your opinion about Slater is spot-on and Belichick, who has spent more hours looking at All-22 special teams tape over the past 40 years than you could possibly fathom and has as much objective data as anyone in the league about what factors are most critical to team success in the NFL, doesn’t know what he is talking about when it comes to the importance of special teams play in general and the skill and value of Slater in particular.

Belichick? Is this the same guy who everyone is ripping to shreds for putting Matt Patricia in charge of his young franchise QB? Utter disaster. I think BB has taken some well-deserved heat for SB 52 as well.

My point is I'm not going to just bow down to everything Belichick does or says. And he makes mistakes (very consequential ones), on which many posters have commented in the threads, so obviously people at times will dispute BB's decisions or opinions.

And my opinion is NOT Slater sucks, or is worthless, or doesn't contribute. BB is entitled to his comments, but I think he's probably a bit biased talking about his own player, who also happens to be BB's number one groupie in the locker room for the last 15 years.

Saying "I don't know if there's ever been or ever going to be a better player than Matt Slater as an overall special teams player" in my opinion is a major overstatement. ST player includes returners and Kickers. There are several of those players who have accomplished much more than Slater on ST. But again, Slater is good (or great) at what he does.

Based upon your takes in this thread, nobody here should take you seriously about any topic going forward. One of the only downsides to Brady retiring is the fact that posters like you will be spending more time posting in the main forum, because you will no longer be able to rest your weary heads on the Tompa-Gronka thread’s bosom.

That's a really bad take. I get plenty of positive emojis on my posts. I think there's some forum tabulation for this somewhere? I'd be curious to see it. You sound a little resentful of Brady too, which always strikes me as really odd, considering the enormous success he brought to the Patriots organization.

But it's ok, you don't have to take me seriously if that's how you fell about it. I'll still continue to read your posts with an open mind.

 

[Steve102]

I'll still continue to read your posts with an open mind.

 

[JarOfMayo51]

I'm trying to think of examples of times in the last several years where the Patriots secondary has really blown a coverage. They've gotten beat due to talent mismatches at times for sure, but you almost never see guys just running free because the coverage simply lost them. A lot goes into that, including coaching, but McCourty should get a lot of credit for that too. He basically tells the secondary where they should be.

Replacing that will be much harder than replacing his physical talents, though people underrate those at times as well.

I think he sometimes gets inappropriately blamed for a TD because he has the range and speed to get into frame on most long TD bombs, so everyone's immediate assumption is that Dmac "blew his coverage" when often times it was just him trying to make a play and has the speed to make it look close

Even Ed Reed (albeit rarely) got beat for TDs now and then.. his critics are overly harsh, especially when looking at the FS play around the league by comparison... Please show me where this super elite FS is that never allows anything downfield and is perfect on every play.. they don't exist because its an impossible standard to hold a player up to

True free safeties that have the speed and range to play deep solo and cover both sides of the field are extremely rare, and DMac was that safety for the majority of his career

 

[Pape]

cool article on the Patriots Wire about why Slater is returning

"New England Patriots special teams legend Matthew Slater isn’t returning for a 16th season just for his love of playing football. In a new interview with Patriots.com writer Paul Perillo, Slater admitted his intentions go much deeper than that.

“I do believe that my role at this point is not just about covering kicks, blocking for returners,” said Slater. “I think it’s about fostering culture, building relationships and pouring into young men. You can do that in other capacities but the way you do that as a player is very different. The way you’re able to connect with guys is very different.”

Slater and the Patriots agreed to a one-year deal worth upwards of $2,667,500 in total.

Coach Bill Belichick was likely interested in the football side of things, as Slater still proved to be a solid special-teamer, even when the unit struggled throughout the 2022 season. But there’s also the leadership aspect as well, and that isn’t just limited to special teams.

The Patriots could use Slater at a time that truly feels like a changing of the guard for the team. It’s a time when guys like Slater and Devin McCourty are on their way out, and the next generation of players are finding themselves in a position to step up and lead.

In many ways, Slater is a good player, coach and mentor combined all into one person. So the thought of bringing him back was a no-brainer decision for the Patriots."

Matthew Slater isn’t returning for a 16th season just to play football

Matthew Slater has more in mind for his 16th season than just playing football.

www.yahoo.com

 

[crawhammer]

I'm trying to think of examples of times in the last several years where the Patriots secondary has really blown a coverage. They've gotten beat due to talent mismatches at times for sure, but you almost never see guys just running free because the coverage simply lost them. A lot goes into that, including coaching, but McCourty should get a lot of credit for that too. He basically tells the secondary where they should be.

 

[Ian]

Not really a blown coverage. McCourty was there, made the tackle but Ertz extended. A blown coverage is where a guy is wide open and walks in.