Should we try to sign Terrell Suggs to an offer sheet?

[satz]

Already we have heard from vince that their is nothing going on his contract front. You do this and sign suggs you have to bet the their will no cap to sign vince till he becomes a fa.

I seriously doubt the patriots can out bid if vince enter FA.You say suggs is one of the best OLB well vince is the only young true NT think he will beat haynsworth contract?

 

[rblee83]

There are very few players in the NFL that are really worth giving up 2 first round picks for, and paying them a big contract.....

That being said, I think Suggs is one of those rare freak athletes. With the number of draft picks we have to work with, I think it is a realistic possibility.

BTW... if you do have several poison pills in the contract that would make it impossible for Baltimore to match, is there a way they could appeal to Goddel or have it voided???

If not, than the only thing BB needs to be concerned with is: Is Suggs worth the 2 firsts, and what will his contract cost.

 

[VJCPatriot]

There are very few players in the NFL that are really worth giving up 2 first round picks for, and paying them a big contract.....

That being said, I think the AD is one of those rare freak athletes. With the number of draft picks we have to work with, I think it is a realistic possibility.

BTW... if you do have several poison pills in the contract that would make it impossible for Baltimore to match, is there a way they could appeal to Goddel or have it voided???

If not, than the only thing BB needs to be concerned with is: Is AD worth the 2 firsts, and what will his contract cost.

Don't your mean Suggs?

 

[rblee83]

Don't your mean Suggs?

Yea, thanks I just edited that. I wrote it thinking about the possibility of having Suggs and AD lining up at OLB together. I assume Mayo / Guyton / Bruschi / draft pick would play the middle.

 

[mayoclinic]

Already we have heard from vince that their is nothing going on his contract front. You do this and sign suggs you have to bet the their will no cap to sign vince till he becomes a fa.

I seriously doubt the patriots can out bid if vince enter FA.You say suggs is one of the best OLB well vince is the only young true NT think he will beat haynsworth contract?

So, every time I have written in a thread "first take care of extending Wilfork" someone replies "that's a given, you don't need to say it". Then I leave it out, and you mention extending Wilfork. Argh. Can't win. For the nth time, we absolutely need to extend Wilfork and lock him up. He's the cornerstone of the defense. 'Nuff said. Back to Suggs.

In this (still hypothetical, but hopefully not totally ridiculous) scenario, if I were the Pats FO I would FIRST extend Wilfork and fill some basic holes in the secondary (and possibly a JAG WR to replace Gaffney). I could seem them try to restructure some contracts to make the necessary cap room (Jarvis Green, Stephen Neal). THEN I would try to strike a deal with Suggs. No need to negotatiate with Baltimore - this would be strictly a hostile takeover. There's no urgency to do this in a hurry - if it falls through, we still have all of our draft picks. We MIGHT negotiate with Carolina for Peppers either as a smokescreen or as a backup plan, but we wouldn't be in a rush - the longer it took up to the draft, the more pressure on them. THEN and only then, if we had the cap space and if we could get Suggs to agree to terms, would be sign him to an offer sheet. With Scott already gone and Lewis in the twighlight of his career, Suggs might be willing to make the jump, especially given Belichick and AD with the Pats. Baltimore would be in a pickle, having already lost Scott, and would undoubtedly try to match unless we could find a way to poison the contract, or unless we gave them some added reason to hold off.

Again, all of this is hypothetical and a long-shot, but it doesn't seem to me entirely crazy. The Pats have cleared a bunch of cap room in a hurry and have stockpiled more picks than they would realistically use. Using some of that money and picks to go after a true impact player would not be totally unreasonable. If you could pick one impact player to go after and spend that kind of cash/picks on, for me it would be either Suggs or DeMarcus Ware. I really can't think of any other players who could have as big an impact on our team (franchised or not) - not Ed Reed or Polamalu, not Scrabble, no DL (Ngata might come close for me, but not with Wilfork in place), no OT, RB or WR. Of course, Tom Brady would be worth it.

 

[matt1073]

I've thrown this idea out a few times, but no one has bitten so far, so I'll throw it out as a thread.

Now that we have cap room and a ton of draft picks, does anyone think it makes sense to do the following:

1. Sign Terrell Suggs to a long-term offer sheet. His franchise tag is $10.2M. He's 26, and arguable the best 3-4 OLB in the NFL not named DeMarcus Ware. BB reportedly loved him coming out of college. Would reunite him with Adalius Thomas. Would cost us #23 in 2009 and our 2010 1st (probably #28-32).

2. Trade one of our 2nd round picks back to re-acquire a 2010 1st round pick. This would likely be #34 or #47.

3. Be left with #34/47, 58, 89 and 97 on the 1st day to spend on draft picks.

We would presumably move AD to SILB, leaving us with Suggs-Thomas-Mayo-Woods/Crable as our starting LB corps. Not too shabby. I could see us still going for someone like Connor Barwin if we managed to keep #34 (or Sintim or English at #47), using Woods as a one year stopgap. Suggs-Thomas-Mayo-Barwin would be unreal in a year or so. We could use the remaining pick on a DB such as Patrick Chung or William Moore (presumable Sean Smith and Louis Delmas would be gone by #58).

For those baulking at Julius Peppers, Suggs is younger, has 3-4 OLB experience, and with a $10M cap hit could probably be signed to a long-term deal. The chance of getting a Suggs/Ware caliber OLB would be a rare opportunity.

I like that idea a 26 yr old suggs would be great. However we would have to give up way to much.

 

[makoute]

There are very few players in the NFL that are really worth giving up 2 first round picks for, and paying them a big contract.....

That being said, I think Suggs is one of those rare freak athletes. With the number of draft picks we have to work with, I think it is a realistic possibility.

BTW... if you do have several poison pills in the contract that would make it impossible for Baltimore to match, is there a way they could appeal to Goddel or have it voided???

If not, than the only thing BB needs to be concerned with is: Is Suggs worth the 2 firsts, and what will his contract cost.

I don't think suggs is one of such players, he is not a freak athlete, Julius Peppers is, a guy like D Ware yes.

 

[rblee83]

I don't think suggs is one of such players, he is not a freak athlete, Julius Peppers is, a guy like D Ware yes.

So all things being equal, you would rather have Peppers, who is
1)Older
2)A conversion project
??? I would love the Pats to get either Suggs or Peppers, but I think Suggs might be a slightly better fit.

 

[makoute]

So all things being equal, you would rather have Peppers, who is
1)Older
2)A conversion project
??? I would love the Pats to get either Suggs or Peppers, but I think Suggs might be a slightly better fit.

For 2 first rounders, I'd rather have peppers, as a cheaper alternative, Suggs would be perfect, but if I'm giving up two first rounders, I'm taking the freak of nature rare athlete that doesn't come around often.

 

[rblee83]

I hope BB makes a big push at either Peppers or Suggs. It would be a huge upgrade on defense, instantly solve the pass rush problem, and really help out our secondary.

 

[mayoclinic]

I like that idea a 26 yr old suggs would be great. However we would have to give up way to much.

Look at who we've picked in the bottom 1/3 or so of the 1st round under BB:

2002: Dan Graham (21)
2004: Wince Wilfork (21), Ben Watson (32)
2005: Logan Mankins (32)
2006: Lawrence Maroney (21)
2007: Brandon Meriweather (24)

Not bad picks. Some of the best late 1st round drafting in the NFL. But with the obvious exception of Wilfork and the possible exception of Mankins, if we could trade any 2 of those players for Terrell Suggs, wouldn't you do it in a second?

Since BB took over in 2000 there have been 108 players drafted between 21 and 32. Of those 96, I count only about 3-4 real impact players: Ed Reed (2002, #24) Nnamdi Asomugha (2003, #31), Vince Wilfork (2004, #21), and possibly Stephen Jackson (2004). You might make an argument for Keith Bullocks (2000), Reggie Wayne (2001), Larry Johnson (2003), and Logan Mankins (2005), but I would argue those are more very good players rather than true franchise-caliber impact players. That's a pretty small chance of landing an impact player. Suggs would be a true impact player in our defense.

Suggs-like 3-4 OLBs don't come around very often. Patchick has previously documented teams' failure to get an impact 3-4 OLB since 2005. Something like 0 for 12. Suggs, Merriman and Ware are rare birds. To get one of them, at his prime at age 26, would be a defensive coup on epic proportions, that would shake up the NFL.

If I were the Pats, and I could make it work under the cap, I wouldn't think twice about giving up the picks.

 

[billdog3484]

giving up 2 top picks PLUS signing a guy to a huge contract. not exactly very patriot like.

i also have a problem trading a potential franchise QB for #34 then trading two top picks for an OLB. i dont think it is likely

 

[Mogamedogz]

Why would Suggs agent allow him to sign a offer sheet with a clause that would prevent Baltimore from matching/upping the $$?

 

[spacecrime]

I'd rather have two first round picks than Suggs.

Any day of the week.

 

[Terry Glenn is a cowgirl]

I've thrown this idea out a few times, but no one has bitten so far, so I'll throw it out as a thread.

Now that we have cap room and a ton of draft picks, does anyone think it makes sense to do the following:

1. Sign Terrell Suggs to a long-term offer sheet. His franchise tag is $10.2M. He's 26, and arguable the best 3-4 OLB in the NFL not named DeMarcus Ware. BB reportedly loved him coming out of college. Would reunite him with Adalius Thomas. Would cost us #23 in 2009 and our 2010 1st (probably #28-32).

2. Trade one of our 2nd round picks back to re-acquire a 2010 1st round pick. This would likely be #34 or #47.

3. Be left with #34/47, 58, 89 and 97 on the 1st day to spend on draft picks.

We would presumably move AD to SILB, leaving us with Suggs-Thomas-Mayo-Woods/Crable as our starting LB corps. Not too shabby. I could see us still going for someone like Connor Barwin if we managed to keep #34 (or Sintim or English at #47), using Woods as a one year stopgap. Suggs-Thomas-Mayo-Barwin would be unreal in a year or so. We could use the remaining pick on a DB such as Patrick Chung or William Moore (presumable Sean Smith and Louis Delmas would be gone by #58).

For those baulking at Julius Peppers, Suggs is younger, has 3-4 OLB experience, and with a $10M cap hit could probably be signed to a long-term deal. The chance of getting a Suggs/Ware caliber OLB would be a rare opportunity.

Is there a player or 2 that are similar to Suggs in the draft?

This should be the way to pick up the players.

 

[Patriot Missile]

Sure there are a few players. Barwin,Sintim,English. All projects converting over to OLB. Probably a year or 2 away. Suggs is ready now with NFL experience which we are missing since our front office decided to part with Vrabel who still had a year left.

Are you comfortable with Woods,Banta Cain,Guyton as replacements for Vrabel?

 

[Wildo7]

No, only because then draft day would be too boring this year.

In all seriousness though I can't see the Pats tying any one player to a huge contract like that when they have so many player coming up that they need to extend.

Suggs is a great LB but he's not that all world talent that you need to break the bank for. And no, I don't want Peppers either. The only player in the NFL right now that I think I'd be happy for the Pats to break the bank over is Ed Reed.

 

[Terry Glenn is a cowgirl]

Sure there are a few players. Barwin,Sintim,English. All projects converting over to OLB. Probably a year or 2 away. Suggs is ready now with NFL experience which we are missing since our front office decided to part with Vrabel who still had a year left.

Are you comfortable with Woods,Banta Cain,Guyton as replacements for Vrabel?

No. A stud rookie or 2 will suffice though...

 

[pats63]

too much to give up....remeber Makins....Wilfork.....Sey.....

 

[mayoclinic]

No, only because then draft day would be too boring this year.

In all seriousness though I can't see the Pats tying any one player to a huge contract like that when they have so many player coming up that they need to extend.

Suggs is a great LB but he's not that all world talent that you need to break the bank for. And no, I don't want Peppers either. The only player in the NFL right now that I think I'd be happy for the Pats to break the bank over is Ed Reed.

Opinions differ.

Ed Reed is an all-time great but he'll be 31 this year, and at some point I think his body will begin to break down from his intense style of play. He's already shown some glimpses of this.

I personally think that for Belichick an all-world talent at OLB would have the greatest impact of all. This is the man who coached LT. DeMarcus Ware would be my first choice, but that isn't going to happen. Suggs and Peppers would be my next choices, and I hope we look seriously at one or both of them, IF we can figure out a way to do it without ruining our team salary structure. If not, then we move on with draft picks. But the cost of acquiring them doesn't put me off if we can make it work.

It's fine to have a lot of picks, but the fact is that 50% of our picks will likely be busts, or at least disappointments. Here's the Belichick record:

2000 (2) Adrian Klemm - bust
2001 (1) Richard Seymour - lived up to his pick
2001 (2) Matt Light - lived up to his pick
2002 (1) Dan Graham - solid but not spectacular pick
2002 (2) Deion Branch - excellent pick
2003 (1) Ty Warren - lived up to his pick
2003 (2) Eugene Wilson - showed early flashes, but disappointing oveall for #36 in the draft
2003 (2) Bethel Johnson - bust
2004 (1) Vince Wilfork - stud
2004 (1) Ben Watson - a bit of a disappointment for his talent and given what we could have gotten (Dansby, Chris Snee, Bob Sanders)
2004 (2) Marquis Hill - never did anything for us, died prematurely
2994 (2) traded for Corey Dillon - did great for a year, then faded
2005 (1) Logan Mankins - great pick
2006 (1) Lawrence Maroney - hasn't lived up to #21 in the draft so far
2006 (2) Chad Jackson - all time bust
2007 (1) Brandon Meriweather - looks to be a good one
2007 (2) traded for Wes Welker - can't argue with that
2008 (1) Jerod Mayo - looks great so far
2008 (2) Terrance Wheatley - too early to tell

It's not realistic to believe that we are going to end up with 4 first day studs.

Again, since 2005 around 12 first round picks have been spent looking for a Suggs/Merriman/Ware type OLB, and none has turned out to be an impact player. Connor Barwin, Everett Brown or Aaron Maybin may turn out to be that guy, but the odds are against it, and there's no guarantee that we'll get any particular one.

If you can land a true impact player - again, assuming it can be done without breaking the salary structure or cap of the team - then I think you have to do it. I'm willing to give up on Suggs/Peppers if we can't make their contracts fit under the cap, but not because we are in love with our future draft picks. We'll still have plenty left for draft day excitement if we can find a way to snag either one.