Should we try to sign Terrell Suggs to an offer sheet?

[tuckeverlasting]

I've thrown this idea out a few times, but no one has bitten so far, so I'll throw it out as a thread.

Now that we have cap room and a ton of draft picks, does anyone think it makes sense to do the following:

1. Sign Terrell Suggs to a long-term offer sheet. His franchise tag is $10.2M. He's 26, and arguable the best 3-4 OLB in the NFL not named DeMarcus Ware. BB reportedly loved him coming out of college. Would reunite him with Adalius Thomas. Would cost us #23 in 2009 and our 2010 1st (probably #28-32).

2. Trade one of our 2nd round picks back to re-acquire a 2010 1st round pick. This would likely be #34 or #47.

3. Be left with #34/47, 58, 89 and 97 on the 1st day to spend on draft picks.

We would presumably move AD to SILB, leaving us with Suggs-Thomas-Mayo-Woods/Crable as our starting LB corps. Not too shabby. I could see us still going for someone like Connor Barwin if we managed to keep #34 (or Sintim or English at #47), using Woods as a one year stopgap. Suggs-Thomas-Mayo-Barwin would be unreal in a year or so. We could use the remaining pick on a DB such as Patrick Chung or William Moore (presumable Sean Smith and Louis Delmas would be gone by #58).

For those baulking at Julius Peppers, Suggs is younger, has 3-4 OLB experience, and with a $10M cap hit could probably be signed to a long-term deal. The chance of getting a Suggs/Ware caliber OLB would be a rare opportunity.

the first day now goes to 64.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

I've thrown this idea out a few times, but no one has bitten so far, so I'll throw it out as a thread.

Now that we have cap room and a ton of draft picks, does anyone think it makes sense to do the following:

1. Sign Terrell Suggs to a long-term offer sheet. His franchise tag is $10.2M. He's 26, and arguable the best 3-4 OLB in the NFL not named DeMarcus Ware. BB reportedly loved him coming out of college. Would reunite him with Adalius Thomas. Would cost us #23 in 2009 and our 2010 1st (probably #28-32).

2. Trade one of our 2nd round picks back to re-acquire a 2010 1st round pick. This would likely be #34 or #47.

3. Be left with #34/47, 58, 89 and 97 on the 1st day to spend on draft picks.

We would presumably move AD to SILB, leaving us with Suggs-Thomas-Mayo-Woods/Crable as our starting LB corps. Not too shabby. I could see us still going for someone like Connor Barwin if we managed to keep #34 (or Sintim or English at #47), using Woods as a one year stopgap. Suggs-Thomas-Mayo-Barwin would be unreal in a year or so. We could use the remaining pick on a DB such as Patrick Chung or William Moore (presumable Sean Smith and Louis Delmas would be gone by #58).

For those baulking at Julius Peppers, Suggs is younger, has 3-4 OLB experience, and with a $10M cap hit could probably be signed to a long-term deal. The chance of getting a Suggs/Ware caliber OLB would be a rare opportunity.

I realize that youris post based on a 'food for thought' premise. That said, that much money and draft picks? An unequivocal no......

 

[Wildo7]

Opinions differ.

Ed Reed is an all-time great but he'll be 31 this year, and at some point I think his body will begin to break down from his intense style of play. He's already shown some glimpses of this.

I personally think that for Belichick an all-world talent at OLB would have the greatest impact of all. This is the man who coached LT. DeMarcus Ware would be my first choice, but that isn't going to happen. Suggs and Peppers would be my next choices, and I hope we look seriously at one or both of them, IF we can figure out a way to do it without ruining our team salary structure. If not, then we move on with draft picks. But the cost of acquiring them doesn't put me off if we can make it work.

It's fine to have a lot of picks, but the fact is that 50% of our picks will likely be busts, or at least disappointments. Here's the Belichick record:

2000 (2) Adrian Klemm - bust
2001 (1) Richard Seymour - lived up to his pick
2001 (2) Matt Light - lived up to his pick
2002 (1) Dan Graham - solid but not spectacular pick
2002 (2) Deion Branch - excellent pick
2003 (1) Ty Warren - lived up to his pick
2003 (2) Eugene Wilson - showed early flashes, but disappointing oveall for #36 in the draft
2003 (2) Bethel Johnson - bust
2004 (1) Vince Wilfork - stud
2004 (1) Ben Watson - a bit of a disappointment for his talent and given what we could have gotten (Dansby, Chris Snee, Bob Sanders)
2004 (2) Marquis Hill - never did anything for us, died prematurely
2994 (2) traded for Corey Dillon - did great for a year, then faded
2005 (1) Logan Mankins - great pick
2006 (1) Lawrence Maroney - hasn't lived up to #21 in the draft so far
2006 (2) Chad Jackson - all time bust
2007 (1) Brandon Meriweather - looks to be a good one
2007 (2) traded for Wes Welker - can't argue with that
2008 (1) Jerod Mayo - looks great so far
2008 (2) Terrance Wheatley - too early to tell

It's not realistic to believe that we are going to end up with 4 first day studs.

Again, since 2005 around 12 first round picks have been spent looking for a Suggs/Merriman/Ware type OLB, and none has turned out to be an impact player. Connor Barwin, Everett Brown or Aaron Maybin may turn out to be that guy, but the odds are against it, and there's no guarantee that we'll get any particular one.

If you can land a true impact player - again, assuming it can be done without breaking the salary structure or cap of the team - then I think you have to do it. I'm willing to give up on Suggs/Peppers if we can't make their contracts fit under the cap, but not because we are in love with our future draft picks. We'll still have plenty left for draft day excitement if we can find a way to snag either one.

Hard to argue with that, I didn't realize Reed's already 31. I'd put Seymour in the "stud" category though and I think Warren was an excellent pick.

I know BB is LB guru obviously but for some reason I've always been partial to safeties since often times just one great one changes the entire dynamic of an entire defense. Pass rush can do that also but with AD coming back and others developing I think we could have a solid pass rush this year without those guys. Merriweather is developing nicely but who knows what Rodney will give us if he returns, so I think that Merriweather + beast would be formidable, especially since someone like Reed can alleviate CB deficiencies also and I'm not a fan of paying much for CBs.

 

[Mogamedogz]

Why would Suggs agent allow him to sign a offer sheet with a clause that would prevent Baltimore from matching/upping the $$?

Can someone elaborate on this? Am I missing something?

I love the idea of bringing in Suggs (even at the cost of two firsts, given that we have enough ammo to trade back into the 1st round in 2010).

 

[mayoclinic]

Can someone elaborate on this? Am I missing something?

I love the idea of bringing in Suggs (even at the cost of two firsts, given that we have enough ammo to trade back into the 1st round in 2010).

My best answer to this is that if the Pats offered Suggs an attractive long-term deal that he liked, they could probably include such a "poison pill" clause as part of the offer in order to protect themselves. If his agent baulked at the clause, then they could just withdraw the offer, claiming (probably rightly) that Suggs' agent was just using them as leverage to drive up Baltimore rather than seriously intending his client to come to NE. Suggs and his agent would then have the choice of either accepting the offer (with the clause) or rejecting it and maintaining the status quo with Baltimore. After all, Minnesota got Hutchinson and his agent to agree to a contract with a poison pill clause.

I could see some reasons why Suggs might be willing to leave Baltimore. His contract talks with the Ravens haven't gone that well, as they have been forced to use the franchise tag on him twice. Also, with Bart Scott and Adalius Thomas having changed teams and Ray Lewis in the twilight of his career, Baltimore's once formidable LB corps is fading fast and Suggs might like to become part of a new monster LB corps, including AD. And BB has always been high on Suggs.

Just thoughts.

 

[Frezo]

I don't think we'll see a poison pill. Remember when the Welker deal initially went down? There was a supposed poison pill in it. The rumor was that Kraft disliked it to the point where it was rescinded and an up front offer made.

 

[patsinthesnow]

Yes we should sign him, he's 91 overall in Madden 09. He's sooo good

 

[rblee83]

I don't think we'll see a poison pill. Remember when the Welker deal initially went down? There was a supposed poison pill in it. The rumor was that Kraft disliked it to the point where it was rescinded and an up front offer made.

If I remember correctly, the Dolphins gave the Pats a counter offer of the 2nd and something like the 7th. They didn't want to sign the poison pill contract, so they offered him straight up for a little added value in the late draft pick and the Pats took it.

Did I remember that right???

 

[mayoclinic]

If I remember correctly, the Dolphins gave the Pats a counter offer of the 2nd and something like the 7th. They didn't want to sign the poison pill contract, so they offered him straight up for a little added value in the late draft pick and the Pats took it.

Did I remember that right???

I don't remember the precise details, but I think you are substantively correct. We made Welker an offer sheet (which the Dolphins could have matched; I don't know whether it contained a poison pill clause) and then negotiated a trade for him with an additional 7th round pick thrown in beyond what we would have had to give up for signing him as an RFA.

Welker's a good case in point, however, for those who baulk at giving up two 1st round picks for Suggs. Most people thought no one would give up a 2nd round pick for Welker, and at the time it was a controversial move. The Pats clearly identified him as a difference maker, and the past 2 years have proven them right beyond our wildest dreams. If the FO were convinced that Suggs could be an impact player I don't think the picks would deter them. It would be more a question of whether a contract could be worked out and whether they could pry him away from Baltimore.

 

[mayoclinic]

Sorry to just update this, as I was the idiot who started this whole speculative mess, but ... ESPN reported that Baltimore tendered Suggs at the exclusive rights franchise level, which means that no team can negotiate with him. The link is:

Ravens place exclusive rights franchise tag on Terrell Suggs - ESPN

I'm not sure if this is true, because I can find no other mention of it anywhere, and all sources that I've seen state that Baltimore franchised Suggs at 120% of his 2008 salary, which is what they would have had to do under league franchise rules anyway. Perhaps someone can clarify whether this is true.

If true, it's interesting that they did this, since it means that Ozzie Newsome was obviously worried that someone would seriously consider signing Suggs and giving up two 1sts. If true, that's the end of the discussion.

 

[jeffbiologist]

BTW-had we not lost our 1st last year I made the same such proposal(and even suggested our #6 straight up).

 

[mayoclinic]

BTW-had we not lost our 1st last year I made the same such proposal(and even suggested our #6 straight up).

I had also considered last year whether we should offer #7 (worth two mid-low 1st) for Suggs. When people were clamoring to use #7 on Gholston, trading it to Baltimore for Suggs and letting them use it for Gholston seemed like a good idea (and it seems even better now). AD could have stayed inside, and we would have had AD-Bruschi-Guyton at ILB. I'm happy with how things turned out, but we had the rare luxury of a top 10 pick to use on a stud LB.

 

[Frezo]

Here are some regarding the Welker poison pill.

Shefter Article about Stallworth and Welker [Archive] - TheGangGreen.com Message Board

Boston Sports Rumors: Welker's Contract Details

New England Patriots | projo.com | The Providence Journal

---Initially, there were reports that New England’s offer sheet was for seven years and $38.5 million, but was heavily back-loaded and contained a poison-pill provision that would have made it impossible for Miami to match. The poison pill, which has been used by Seattle and Minnesota, is legal under the terms of the collective-bargaining agreement. But is controversial and engenders bad feelings between teams.

Patriots owner Robert Kraft, not wanting to stir up trouble with Miami owner Wayne Huizenga, stepped in, and the trade was worked out instead. The Dolphins got a seventh-round pick in next month’s draft in addition to the Pats’ second-round choice, and New England got Welker, signing him to a five-year, $18.1-million contract.---