Should the Pats do to Vinatieri what the Broncos did to Elam?

[Kontradiction]

I wouldn't have a problem doing that for Adam. None whatsoever. I don't hold any ill feelings toward him for seeking long-term security with a big money contract that he wasn't going to get here. I think most of us would have done the same (of course there will be a lot of people who react to this with "NO I WOULDN'T BRO!" responses). It just sucks that it had to be the Colts who dangled this in front of him, but whatever. The guy's leg directly won us two Super Bowls. When he retires, I don't see a problem with him retiring a Patriot.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Yeah, well, he would've made up the difference endorsing Papa Gino's and Dunkin' Donuts, then taking the media job Tedy Bruschi eventually landed.

I think you overestimate what hawking pizza and donuts regionally pays, those endorsement deals seldom top five figures... And who was the last PK ESPN hired as a commentator...

Adam came here as a low six figure UDFA via the Amsterdam Admirals... We never signed him to longer than a 3 year deal (twice sandwiched around a one time franchise tag season). He probably didn't make $10M total in his ten seasons here. He's made $10.5M in his last 4 seasons in Indy, and he has $2M more coming if he completes that contract in 2010. They were willing to fork over $3.5M in signing bonus on that deal. We were offering him $2.3M per but with little or no guaranteed money. The Patriots had let it be known they intended to retain Adam, and because of that there were few teams even interested in wasting time hosting him as a FA. Polian wasn't about to be used so he put a take it or leave it offer on the table with the stipulation if he didn't sign the offer was off the table. He did what he had to do for his family. He had always played ball with the Patriots but he knew we wern't going to match that offer, Jonathan stated we were prepared to keep him the highest paid kicker in the league, but only on a year to year non guaranteed salary basis, and he wasn't going to walk away from long term secutiry as a result. He was basically "implicitly guaranteed" $7.5M from the Colts.

 

[Tunescribe]

I think you overestimate what hawking pizza and donuts regionally pays, those endorsement deals seldom top five figures... And who was the last PK ESPN hired as a commentator...

The winking smiley indicated tongue-in-cheek, Mo. I do understand Adam's choice, but it's not like the Pats' offer was an insult. As things turned out the Patriots did the right thing not breaking the bank for him.

 

[vyrago]

Odd phrasing. I would think the Pats would be doing something "for" Vinatieri, not "to" him.

Sure, why not. That Snow Bowl kick was one of the highlights of the Patriots history. In retrospect, it started a phenomenal run. Though he plays for the #@*%ing Colts, he will always be a hero to me

 

[signbabybrady]

I guess none of you guys have been to The Hall at Patriot Place because the dude is already in there I would be willing to bet you can't take the tour through the Hall without hearing, seeing, or reading Adams name or a play he made at least 10 times and probably much more. And if you read, watch, and hear everything in one visit I would guess the number could be close to a hundred times.

IMO Vinatieri should immediately be inducted into the Patriot Hall of Fame when he retires.

 

[spacecrime]

No problem with him retiring a patriot, but neither he nor Elam are going to the NFL Hall of Fame. They're kickers. Adam's shot is that 45-yarder in the snow, greatest kick in NFL history, but when it comes down to it, he's still just a kicker.

 

[spacecrime]

He made every kick we ever really needed him to make.

bad logic.

He missed two kicks in one superbowl. He was bailed out by Faulk 2-pt conversion and Brady/Branch but until Branch held onto the ball that last catch, Vinatieri did not make two kicks we needed him to make.

(If you say it doesn't count becasue he was bailed out, then his game winning Superbowl kicks weren't needed either because he could have been bailed out in OT)

He made some great kick, including the greatest ever, but he wasn't especially accurate overall. Better than average, but that is hardly a qualification for getting into the HoF, especially a kicker.

 

[Kasmir]

He missed two kicks in one superbowl. He was bailed out by Faulk 2-pt conversion and Brady/Branch but until Branch held onto the ball that last catch, Vinatieri did not make two kicks we needed him to make.

Completely agree. I remember thinking after he missed those two kicks vs Carolina that he was about to destroy his legacy in one game. His making the last kick doesn't disguise the fact that he had a terrible game.

As for "retiring as a Patriot", Vinatieri made the decision that his feud with management was worth risking what would have been legendary status in Boston. He could have had a lifetime of free drinks and endorsement opportunities as one of Boston's greatest sports heroes, but decided that "winning" his feud with management was more important to him. He dissed Boston when he made that decision, and he should live with the consequences. No way in hell he should get special consideration from the franchise or the city. Just my opinion, but I suspect it's shared by many.

 

[signbabybrady]

bad logic.

He missed two kicks in one superbowl. He was bailed out by Faulk 2-pt conversion and Brady/Branch but until Branch held onto the ball that last catch, Vinatieri did not make two kicks we needed him to make.

(If you say it doesn't count becasue he was bailed out, then his game winning Superbowl kicks weren't needed either because he could have been bailed out in OT)

He made some great kick, including the greatest ever, but he wasn't especially accurate overall. Better than average, but that is hardly a qualification for getting into the HoF, especially a kicker.

He is the most Clutch kicker in NFL history if that doesn't get you in then they mine as well make a rule that says the hall of fame is only for offense and defense.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Both of these kickers could go into the HOF and both are just 2 years apart in age.

I think it was great what the Broncos did in signing Elam for 1 day and then retiring him as a Bronco.

I think the opportunity for New England to do the same,comes up in 2011 when Adam is 38

If the situation arizes and Adam is announcing retirement,do you want the Patriots to do what the Broncos just did?

[after all of his injuries the past 2 years or so,it could even happen this year]

I harbor and have harbored no ill will towards #4 for pursuing his own economic self interest, as he perceived it. I hope he is allowed to retire as a Patriot and I also hope that they retire his number.

If any K is going to join Jan Stenerud as the only specialist PK in Canton, it will be Adam. Yes, Elam has awesome stats, but the Hall tends not to admit Kickers, whatever their stats; I don't agree with that bias, but it is real and Elam will be hurt by the spectre of a soon to be retiring Vinatieri in the minds of the HOF voters, who will not be inclined to admit two kickers within a couple of years of each other after going decades and admitting only one.

Vinatieri will get in not just because of his numbers but because of the kicks he made and the excitement he brought to the game. His regulation time snow bowl kick is regarded even by haters as the greatest kick under pressure in the history of the NFL (and the one in OT wasn't shabby either) and his kick to win SB XXXVI with time expiring was the first such kick made, virtually repeated only two years later.

BTW, the most compelling thing IMO about Stenerud's stats is that his FG Made percentage went UP after he left KC, where it was notoriously difficult to kick.

 

[patsinthesnow]

Reason why I'm not sure:

He is a superbowl chamipon with the COLTS and he helped take down the PATS in the semifinal.

 

[ScottieC]

Reason why I'm not sure:

He is a superbowl chamipon with the COLTS and he helped take down the PATS in the semifinal.

Reason why I'm sure - We would not have as many Trophies without him. I don't care how many he won with another team. That's just a hater mentality - Which BTW - I can understand to a degree.

 

[LiveShot]

He made his choice screw him. Anyone but the Colts or Jets then maybe.

 

[ScottieC]

He made his choice screw him. Anyone but the Colts or Jets then maybe.

That's rational. Who cares about money! Money is overrated.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

I think you overestimate what hawking pizza and donuts regionally pays, those endorsement deals seldom top five figures... And who was the last PK ESPN hired as a commentator...

Adam came here as a low six figure UDFA via the Amsterdam Admirals... We never signed him to longer than a 3 year deal (twice sandwiched around a one time franchise tag season). He probably didn't make $10M total in his ten seasons here. He's made $10.5M in his last 4 seasons in Indy, and he has $2M more coming if he completes that contract in 2010. They were willing to fork over $3.5M in signing bonus on that deal. We were offering him $2.3M per but with little or no guaranteed money. The Patriots had let it be known they intended to retain Adam, and because of that there were few teams even interested in wasting time hosting him as a FA. Polian wasn't about to be used so he put a take it or leave it offer on the table with the stipulation if he didn't sign the offer was off the table. He did what he had to do for his family. He had always played ball with the Patriots but he knew we wern't going to match that offer, Jonathan stated we were prepared to keep him the highest paid kicker in the league, but only on a year to year non guaranteed salary basis, and he wasn't going to walk away from long term secutiry as a result. He was basically "implicitly guaranteed" $7.5M from the Colts.

That about sums it up. He did what he had to do. I hope he retires as a Pat and that they retire his number.

 

[Armen Da Pats Fan]

Both of these kickers could go into the HOF and both are just 2 years apart in age.

I think it was great what the Broncos did in signing Elam for 1 day and then retiring him as a Bronco.

I think the opportunity for New England to do the same,comes up in 2011 when Adam is 38

If the situation arizes and Adam is announcing retirement,do you want the Patriots to do what the Broncos just did?

[after all of his injuries the past 2 years or so,it could even happen this year]

I would say, YES, without a doubt.

 

[italian pat patriot]

also from my side a simply YES

 

[VOODOOZF]

Both of these kickers could go into the HOF and both are just 2 years apart in age.

I think it was great what the Broncos did in signing Elam for 1 day and then retiring him as a Bronco.

I think the opportunity for New England to do the same,comes up in 2011 when Adam is 38

If the situation arizes and Adam is announcing retirement,do you want the Patriots to do what the Broncos just did?

[after all of his injuries the past 2 years or so,it could even happen this year]

Absolutely not...

Not only did Vinatieri leave, but he left to go to the Colts despite a fair offer from the Patriots. In my mind Vinatieri is not a great Patriot the same way that guys like Bruschi and Harrison are.

If he goes into the Hall of Fame I hope he goes in as a Colt. He is nothing, but a trader who did some great things in his time here.

Now if you were talking about a guy like Mike Vrabel or Richard Seymour who were dealt away I would be all for it.

 

[Kontradiction]

Those of you who voted "no" need some help. The man was an integral part of three Super Bowl championships for us. His foot actually carried us past two of those three Super Bowl competitors which allowed the team to hoist the Lombardi trophy over their heads. And you guys don't want him to retire a Patriot (and instead retire a COLT?!) because he decided that financial security for him and his family over the long term was important to him and went with the team who could give him that? Seriously?

 

[SmokeShowin]

I hat ethat he went to the Colts, but there is no denying what he did for us. I'm all for it and would be standing and applauding if they introduced him during a game to announce it.