Should the Pats Attempt to Sign Jimmy Graham to an Offer Sheet?

[SB39]

(1) The Vikings claimed him off waivers; the Patriots supposedly wanted to put him on the PS.

Exactly. And it is stupid to say Childress somehow screwed over Belichick by claiming a player that was headed for the practice squad.

The individual in this thread saying that that move pissed off Belichick and started a personal vendetta whereby Belichick made it his life's mission to get back at Childress is simply clueless.

 

[OhExaulted1]

Then please, tell us what control Belichick has over the VIkings organization. Does Zygi Wulf take his marching orders from Foxboro?

Seriously, please elaborate on how Belichick got back at Childress. Otherwise you're just full of **** and everyone knows it.

Yeah, OK. I'm not an angry Andy Johnson who flips out over stupid posts. Roll with what you believe kid.

 

[OhExaulted1]

Exactly. And it is stupid to say Childress somehow screwed over Belichick by claiming a player that was headed for the practice squad.

The individual in this thread saying that that move pissed off Belichick and started a personal vendetta whereby Belichick made it his life's mission to get back at Childress is simply clueless.

If you ain't a made man, you're clocks ticking if you open your mouth.

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2010/10/28/belichick_wont_bite_on_swipe/

 

[SB39]

If you ain't a made man, you're clocks ticking if you open your mouth.

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2010/10/28/belichick_wont_bite_on_swipe/

Heh heh. Quoting Shank Shaugnessey. Meanwhile, we're still waiting for you tot tell us how Belichick has any sway over Zygi Wulf

 

[OhExaulted1]

Heh heh. Quoting Shank Shaugnessey. Meanwhile, we're still waiting for you tot tell us how Belichick has any sway over Zygi Wulf

Who's "we're" kid? You're on an island at this point. Let me know when you need a life buoy. Keep treading water. You'll get spotted at some point.

 

[OhExaulted1]

Anyway, I think we should sign Jimmy Graham to an offer sheet and giving up to #32's and a big contract to get him is worth it. JMHO.

Garrett Mills is out of football and Brad Childress is basically irrelevent. Don't eff with the Godfather.

 

[OhExaulted1]

I've been on this board for 15 years to debate my interest in my favorite team. Pick someone else to have a pissing match with. I'm not that interested. Will we get Graham? Probably not. Would I love it if we did. Absolutely.
That's my opinion. Clear cut, plain and simple.

 

[OhExaulted1]

Dislike my posts and don't respond. You are what you are. If intelligent and rational posts are too much for you to engage in that's you're problem. Not mine. Whatever dude.

 

[supafly]

Bullsh*t. F*ck the money. Find a way. We couldn't ever land Revis, right? Get him. July 15. Graham is coming to Foxboro. The eff-you NFL! tour is right on schedule. Do it Bill.

I think we'd all like the idea of grabbing a great weapon such as J.Graham. The problem is the asking price of 2 first round picks, particularly in the era of the rookie wage scale, when you can grab 2 first round picks for the future on the cheap. It's so important in the team building philosophy. Like I've said--if it were Calvin Johnson or JJ Watt, I'd be all for it. For Graham though, I'm personally not expecting many teams to bite on this. Obviously, I could be wrong. I just don't believe he's in that kind of category myself.

I agree with those like yourself who say that it's tempting (for ONE first), but the bottom line is that it just doesn't get done too often when TWO firsts are involved. It's been 14 yrs since a team gave up 2 firsts + a big long term pact, and that was DAL for J.Galloway in 2000, which turned out to be a disaster. They cut him after a few years of mediocre production, and it's quite probable that the move set their entire organization back a bit. The again, it's DAL, so all of their moves likely set them back a bit

As far as landing Revis---we'll need to see how that works out past 2014. At the moment, all we've accomplished is a one year rental. Although we're all hopeful that something long term can get worked out, it remains to be seen how far Belichick will go to back up the Brinks truck. Either way, it is worth it even if it's only for the 2014 season, but your point may not be quite as relevant as you had meant it to be regarding the specific example of Revis himself.

I say these comments with the utmost respect in a reasonable debate, as I can see your point 100%. I just don't really agree with it--not that it means too much either way.

 

[Ivan]

I voted "no", but it wasn't a no-brainer for me. I'd think of it this way:

1. Could the Pats structure an offer sheet to Graham that the Saints wouldn't be able to match (or which would make the Saints choose not to match), but which would fit into their current cap situation?

2. Could the Pats do this without breaking their current team cap situation?

3. Could the Pats do #1 and #2 without adversely impacting their ability to extend key players currently on the roster (especially Revis and McCourty)?

I agree that the best route to another Lombardi is via a great defense (I'm certainly a "defense first" guy), but if the Pats could somehow find a way to achieve all 3 of the above, it would merit serious consideration. It's probably not feasible to achieve 1-3 above, but it's tempting, as you say.

Overall I think the cost would just be far too high. They would have to make him the highest paid TE in football and piss off Gronkowski, who is actually a much better TE, then give up their next two firsts and sacrifice other players they need to re-sign, even if that weren't Revis and McCourty it would be Solder or Jones etc..., so it just wouldn't be worth it.


This is going to be a fascinating season and it should answer many of the questions facing them going forward, by mid season we will have a much better read on where they are headed and what they will need to address next offseason, but for me DL would be at the top of that list, as even if Wilfork and Kelly come back and produce the end is not for off for either

 

[Ivan]

Undid the "Disagree". No red X.

1. The Saints are up against a wall.
2. Psycho's money comes off the books next year, plus another 10+ in space
3. Shuffling money is not impossible or rigid. Keep Revis and sign Graham to an offer sheet? The question isn't can we, it's why shouldn't we. 2 #32's and a Gronk-type contract. Go get him.

He doesn't want Gronk money, he wants Larry Fitzgerald/ Calvin Johnson money, which is why he wanted to be designated a WR, he believes he should get top WR money, which is also why they aren't even close to signing him.

 

[supafly]

He doesn't want Gronk money, he wants Larry Fitzgerald/ Calvin Johnson money, which is why he wanted to be designated a WR, he believes he should get top WR money, which is also why they aren't even close to signing him.

That's a great point that some seem to be forgetting. It's not just 2 first rounders, but 2 first rounders AND a double digit AAV contract.

While we all know the talent that he has as a pass catching TE, I wonder if we wouldn't benefit more from making this kind of deal for an elite WR instead?

(not that I am advocating it, just pointing out that if it were to be done, an argument could be made that we would benefit more from doing it with an elite WR instead)

 

[Ivan]

As far as landing Revis---we'll need to see how that works out past 2014. At the moment, all we've accomplished is a one year rental. Although we're all hopeful that something long term can get worked out, it remains to be seen how far Belichick will go to back up the Brinks truck. Either way, it is worth it even if it's only for the 2014 season, but your point may not be quite as relevant as you had meant it to be regarding the specific example of Revis himself.

I actually have a great deal of confidence in the Patriots to get this done. They play hardball most of the time but Belichick also recognizes that are generational talents who are going to be first ballot Hall of Famer's, and that they are rare commodities and when you get one you find a way to keep them. I realize Revis is going to want a contract commensurate with his stature but I think they will show him how good playing in NE will be for his career and get creative in structuring a deal that he can sign. That doesn't mean he will pay him 20 million a year but I do think they will get a top of the market 3-4 year deal done with him. If so this could well be the best secondary in football by 2015 and stay that way for the next 3-4 years.


I would much rather see them use their money to turn this into a dominant defense but we will see what happens?

 

[PatFanCraig]

A compromise would be Jermichael Finley. He is very close to Graham and better in some ways. As good as Rodgers is,nobody makes WRs better like Brady does. He would be better than expected here and have his best season yet.

 

[Ivan]

That's a great point that some seem to be forgetting. It's not just 2 first rounders, but 2 first rounders AND a double digit AAV contract.

While we all know the talent that he has as a pass catching TE, I wonder if we wouldn't benefit more from making this kind of deal for an elite WR instead?

Andre Johnson is really the only option in that regard and I seriously doubt O'Brien lets Belichick have him.

 

[supafly]

I actually have a great deal of confidence in the Patriots to get this done. They play hardball most of the time but Belichick also recognizes that are generational talents who are going to be first ballot Hall of Famer's, and that they are rare commodities and when you get one you find a way to keep them. I realize Revis is going to want a contract commensurate with his stature but I think they will show him how good playing in NE will be for his career and get creative in structuring a deal that he can sign. That doesn't mean he will pay him 20 million a year but I do think they will get a top of the market 3-4 year deal done with him. If so this could well be the best secondary in football by 2015 and stay that way for the next 3-4 years.


I would much rather see them use their money to turn this into a dominant defense but we will see what happens?

If I had to guess, I would definitely lean towards optimism as well. I just didn't see the comparison as terribly fitting (certainly no offense to OE1), since we've yet to see how it plays out in the end--that's all.

I would much rather see the money spent on defense as well.

 

[Ivan]

A compromise would be Jermichael Finley. He is very close to Graham and better in some ways. As good as Rodgers is,nobody makes WRs better like Brady does. He would be better than expected here and have his best season yet.

I would rather have Keller but i would be OK with Finley if they cleared him, which is in serious doubt.

 

[supafly]

A compromise would be Jermichael Finley. He is very close to Graham and better in some ways. As good as Rodgers is,nobody makes WRs better like Brady does. He would be better than expected here and have his best season yet.

If there's any one position on the team that we're all foaming at the mouth for--it's certainly TE.

The issue of health is likely the problem for both Finely and Keller, or at least it would seem.

 

[supafly]

Andre Johnson is really the only option in that regard and I seriously doubt O'Brien lets Belichick have him.

It's been well documented that I'm not a huge fan of the "let's go out trade a first and a third, and sign X wide receiver to a mega-deal" due to the fact that we don't normally see it work too well in the era of the salary cap.

That said, I'm just wondering aloud if giving up 2 firsts (or something in the ballpark) and a mega deal for a guy like C.Johnson, B.Marshall, or L.Fitzgerald may not allow us to take better advantage than making the move for a TE who cannot block worth a damn. After all, we're talking about a receiving-only option anyway, and one who can be limited and taken out of the gameplan more than an elite WR.

 

[Ivan]

Belichick would stab his momma in the back if he thought it would help the Patriots. He had no problem screwing Coughlin with that tight end that the Giants tried to disable a couple years ago.

So when the Patriots sign a released player it is Belichick screwing Coughlin, but when the Vikings sign a released player you don't know why there's an issue?

Agenda much?