Should the Pats Attempt to Sign Jimmy Graham to an Offer Sheet?

[OhExaulted1]

You're obviously not following the thread terribly well, so let me explain:

Someone wrote "I don't see Belichick as the type of guy that would screw a contemporary in Sean Payton for Graham's services right now." I responded to that comment with the notion that Belichick would stab his own momma in the back to improve the team. While that comment is obviously facetious, I do not for an instant believe Belichick would choose not to offer Graham a contract because he is afraid of hurting Sean Payton's feelings.

My personal take on the matter is that if a team waives a player, they have no right feeling screwed if some other team claims that player. And if a team franchises a player, they have no right feeling screwed if some other team makes a huge offer.

My take is Belichick didn't screw Coughlin and Childress didn't screw Belichick. All they did was claim a player off waivers, which they are 100% within their rights to do.

In the future, please try to do a better job keeping up with the thread before accusing others of having an agenda. TIA.

Should I go totally Andy Johnson and rip you even though you make good points? Keep posting. It's the offseason. We need you. Fire away.

 

[Ivan]

Actually IMO I think Fleming is great for guard. The new age pro bowl guard is a converted strong college Tackle.

There's nothing new about converting college tackles to guards that has been the model for decades.

 

[Miguel]

What I would like to see is the parameters of this offer sheet. Any offer that has a 2014 cap hit of less than 7.035 million would probably be immediately matched by the Saints as it will increase their cap space. Any offer that has a 2014 cap hit of more than 7.035 million means that the Pats had to have increase their cap space by either releasing players or redoing deals in order to remain under the cap.

 

[Danger Zone]

What I would like to see is the parameters of this offer sheet. Any offer that has a 2014 cap hit of less than 7.035 million would probably be immediately matched by the Saints as it will increase their cap space. Any offer that has a 2014 cap hit of more than 7.035 million means that the Pats had to have increase their cap space by either releasing players or redoing deals in order to remain under the cap.

Why must you ruin my dreams of having Graham AND Johnson by Training Camp?

.. and thanks Miguel, as always, that's super useful information.

 

[PatFanCraig]

True, but its become very popular and many top guards now played tackle. Nicks,yanda,Osemele, and our own Mankind, not to mention Cannon could be a very good guard as well as Fleming.

 

[Ivan]

True, but its become very popular and many top guards now played tackle. Nicks,yanda,Osemele, and our own Mankind, not to mention Cannon could be a very good guard as well as Fleming.

Like I said, this has been the model for decades, at one point about ten years ago there were only four starting guards in the NFL who had played guard in college.

 

[conway]

Depending on how a few thing shake out, I'm hoping for a mid season addition of a stud flex TE with a last name that ends in "ez".

 

[mayoclinic]

I'd still like to see a trade for Rob Housler. He is young, athletic, and could have a Jordan Cameron kind of breakout in our offense, IMO. The cost (both financially and in term of trade cost) would be far less than signing Graham, and he is younger and healthier than Finley or Keller.

They should offer the Cards a 2nd for Housler and see if that gets them anywhere...................

I don't think it would take a 2nd.

Personally, if I were the New Orleans GM and someone actually signed Graham to an offer sheet that was difficult to match, I'd take the 2 1st round picks and then offer a 3rd (and possibly sweeten it if necessary) to Arizona for Housler. That would save $6M in 2014 cap space and a lot more in the long run, leave the Saints loaded for the future, and I think that Housler could thrive in the Saints' offense (as he could with the Pats). The fan base would scream bloody murder, but the team would be in great position for the long term, and might use the extra picks to draft Drew Brees' eventual successor. That seems like the Belichickian thing to do.

 

[AzorianPats]

I don't think it would take a 2nd.

Personally, if I were the New Orleans GM and someone actually signed Graham to an offer sheet that was difficult to match, I'd take the 2 1st round picks and then offer a 3rd (and possibly sweeten it if necessary) to Arizona for Housler. That would save $6M in 2014 cap space and a lot more in the long run, leave the Saints loaded for the future, and I think that Housler could thrive in the Saints' offense (as he could with the Pats). The fan base would scream bloody murder, but the team would be in great position for the long term, and might use the extra picks to draft Drew Brees' eventual successor. That seems like the Belichickian thing to do.

That big on Housler huh mayo?.

If he's anything like Cameron, let's hope he's on the market and we make a deal!

 

[mayoclinic]

That big on Housler huh mayo?

I think that Housler has similar raw athleticism to Graham and Cameron:

- Graham: 6' 6 1/4" 260#, 35" arms; 4.53 40, 1.53 10-split, 4.39 SS, 6.90 3C; 38 1/2" VJ, 10' BJ
- Cameron: 6' 5 1/4" 254#, 33 1/2" arms; 4.53 40, 1.53 10-split, 4.03 SS, 6.82 3C; 37 1/2" VJ, 9' 11" BJ
- Housler: 6' 5 3/8" 248#, 34 1/2" arms; 4.46 40, 1.49 10-split, 4.21 SS, 6.90 3C; 37" VJ, 9'9" BJ

Obviously measurables don't tell the whole story, but neither Graham nor Cameron was exactly a polished product coming out of school. Housler is supposedly a good kid with a good work ethic. He hasn't made the leap in Arizona, but that doesn't mean that he isn't capable of it. Cameron exploded last year, and I think Housler could have a similar breakout on a team like the Pats or Saints. There's always a risk involved, but I would certainly explore the possibility, personally.

 

[AzorianPats]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000353281/article/ten-summertime-trade-candidates

Interesting.....

 

[mayoclinic]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000353281/article/ten-summertime-trade-candidates

Interesting.....

I'm not saying that Housler will be Jimmy Graham. But Graham has benefitted from Drew Brees and the New Orleans offense, and Housler hasn't had the same kind of organizational or schematic continuity. He could remain a role player, but he could thrive in a different situation, the way Jordan Cameron thrived last year. I just think that if the Graham situation threatens to mess up the Saints long term cap situation and someone makes an offer for him, that 2 1st round picks would be hard to turn down. No one is bigger than the team.

 

[Ivan]

Depending on how a few thing shake out, I'm hoping for a mid season addition of a stud flex TE with a last name that ends in "ez".

I doubt they will let him play with the murder trials pending.

 

[everlong]

I'd say no with my concern being Graham's toughness. Against the Pats and Seahawks when defenders roughed him up went into a shell and didn't do squat. I think you'll see a lot more of that against him going forward. I will grant that you either need to have a physical corner like a Talib, Revis, Browner or Sherman to pull it off or you have to double team him. I will also grant that having both Gronk and Graham it's pick your poison because you can't double both and unlike Graham when healthy Gronk feeds off of the physicality.

 

[mayoclinic]

I'd say no with my concern being Graham's toughness. Against the Pats and Seahawks when defenders roughed him up went into a shell and didn't do squat. I think you'll see a lot more of that against him going forward. I will grant that you either need to have a physical corner like a Talib, Revis, Browner or Sherman to pull it off or you have to double team him. I will also grant that having both Gronk and Graham it's pick your poison because you can't double both and unlike Graham when healthy Gronk feeds off of the physicality.

I think your last sentence is very important. It's largely why I am still intrigued about the idea of Graham on the Pats, even though I doubt it's feasible and am not sure it would be worth the cost

 

[Ivan]

I

I don't think it would take a 2nd.

Personally, if I were the New Orleans GM and someone actually signed Graham to an offer sheet that was difficult to match, I'd take the 2 1st round picks and then offer a 3rd (and possibly sweeten it if necessary) to Arizona for Housler. That would save $6M in 2014 cap space and a lot more in the long run, leave the Saints loaded for the future, and I think that Housler could thrive in the Saints' offense (as he could with the Pats). The fan base would scream bloody murder, but the team would be in great position for the long term, and might use the extra picks to draft Drew Brees' eventual successor. That seems like the Belichickian thing to do.

I just realized that Houler is in a contract year, that being the case I would offer a 4th or Mallett.

 

[supafly]

I



I just realized that Houler is in a contract year, that being the case I would offer a 4th or Mallett.

I'd love to jump on the Housler bandwagon with you guys if there is any room left. Obviously, we definitely need an upgrade, and I assumed one was coming--but now I'm starting to get nervous as we get closer to camp.

As far as the Mallett idea--whatever works. My only concern is that ARZ recently took a QB (IIRC), although I don't suppose that would definitely limit their decision. It's probable they'd like to start building for life without Palmer, so that's one idea that could work to add some competition.

 

[mayoclinic]

I'd love to jump on the Housler bandwagon with you guys if there is any room left. Obviously, we definitely need an upgrade, and I assumed one was coming--but now I'm starting to get nervous as we get closer to camp.

As far as the Mallett idea--whatever works. My only concern is that ARZ recently took a QB (IIRC), although I don't suppose that would definitely limit their decision. It's probable they'd like to start building for life without Palmer, so that's one idea that could work to add some competition.

Arizona has Carson Palmer, who is 34 and who has already retired once, Drew Stanton (who hasn't played since 2010), Ryan Lindley (who had 0 TDs and 7 INTs in 6 games in 2012 and hasn't played in a game since) and rookie Logan Thomas. Thomas, a former TE, might rival Housler as far as raw athleticism, but he's probably a developmental player at QB. Mallett would likely be an upgrade over all 3 guys currently on the depth chart behind Palmer.

 

[Danger Zone]

I'd love to jump on the Housler bandwagon with you guys if there is any room left. Obviously, we definitely need an upgrade, and I assumed one was coming--but now I'm starting to get nervous as we get closer to camp.

As far as the Mallett idea--whatever works. My only concern is that ARZ recently took a QB (IIRC), although I don't suppose that would definitely limit their decision. It's probable they'd like to start building for life without Palmer, so that's one idea that could work to add some competition.

Hop aboard!

 

[Raymond]

Hop aboard!

Could you imagine the upheaval in this country against the gov't if people were inclined to do that.