Should the Pats Attempt to Sign Jimmy Graham to an Offer Sheet?

[OhExaulted1]

1st pick overall has been pretty solid for the most part, considering it's always late. Here's some names-#21 Laurence Maroney, #24 Brandon Merriweather,#25 Hightower, # 33 Ras I, #34 Patrick Chung, #36 Chad Jackson, #40 Ron Brace, #41 Darius Butler.

I'd trade all 8 of these guys straight up for Graham.

 

[Rob0729]

1st pick overall has been pretty solid for the most part, considering it's always late. Here's some names-#21 Laurence Maroney, #24 Brandon Merriweather,#25 Hightower, # 33 Ras I, #34 Patrick Chung, #36 Chad Jackson, #40 Ron Brace, #41 Darius Butler.

I'd trade all 8 of these guys straight up for Graham.

Yeah, but would trade Vince Wilfork and Logan Mankins (not now, but what the Pats got when they drafted them) straight up for Graham? I wouldn't. If you can guarantee the Pats are not going to get a Pro Bowl or even HOF quality player with those two firsts, then it is a no brainer. But one or both of those firsts traded away could be better players than Graham.

 

[OhExaulted1]

Yeah, but would trade Vince Wilfork and Logan Mankins (not now, but what the Pats got when they drafted them) straight up for Graham? I wouldn't. If you can guarantee the Pats are not going to get a Pro Bowl or even HOF quality player with those two firsts, then it is a no brainer. But one or both of those firsts traded away could be better players than Graham.

Point totally taken Rob. I wouldn't trade Chandler Jones, Solder, Vollmer or McCourty as well. But I guarentee everyone on this board would flip out if we stole him away from NO. If anyone could pull it off, it's Bill. I know it sounds totally Madden, but what happened when we got Moss? I remember people *****ing about giving up a 4. Really? The Raiders got CB John Bowie from Cincinnati with the 110th pick. Remember him? Me neither. Grahams a proven commodity and the Saints are cap-strung. Steal him.

 

[OhExaulted1]

I don't think our cap could realistically accommodate it. To stay competitive, you need to be hitting on those first round picks, since if they're as good as advertised they give you four years of cheap, upper-tier production (and if they're really good, a cheap fifth year as well). Giving up two firsts is just way too much, IMO. I think the loss of draft picks would be an even bigger issue than the salary that he would command.

I disagree with this and threw a "disliike" at you. I'm actually considering never doing that again because it almost seems hateful having that red mark on your record. I'm respectfully disagreeing. I think Graham is worth 2 #32's and a Gronk contract. Not hating on you, just a difference of opinion.

Now that I've thought about it I'm retracting it altogether. Disliking and disagreeing with posts is not the way I roll. I prefer to be straight up and tell people where I'm coming from. I digress. Give me a second.

 

[OhExaulted1]

Removed.

 

[Ivan]

Nope. Tempting as that would be I think locking Revis and McCourty up should be the priority and using the firsts to finish rebuilding the DL over the next couple of years will hopefully leave them with a top 5 scoring defense for the remainder of Brady's career. I understand the desire to have that high powered two TE offense but I think a great defense is their best route to another Lombardi, and not an other 35+ points a game offense.

 

[OhExaulted1]

I don't think our cap could realistically accommodate it. To stay competitive, you need to be hitting on those first round picks, since if they're as good as advertised they give you four years of cheap, upper-tier production (and if they're really good, a cheap fifth year as well). Giving up two firsts is just way too much, IMO. I think the loss of draft picks would be an even bigger issue than the salary that he would command.

Back to your original point, which is reasoned and toughtful and makes sense, wouldn't you just love it if Bill just said FTW! and snatched this kid away from NO?

 

[OhExaulted1]

This move would not make them the greatest team in the history of the NFL. It wouldn't even make them the greatest team in Patriots history.

You're the ultimate pessimist.

 

[Danger Zone]

I disagree with this and threw a "disliike" at you. I'm actually considering never doing that again because it almost seems hateful having that red mark on your record. I'm respectfully disagreeing. I think Graham is worth 2 #32's and a Gronk contract. Not hating on you, just a difference of opinion.

Now that I've thought about it I'm retracting it altogether. Disliking and disagreeing with posts is not the way I roll. I prefer to be straight up and tell people where I'm coming from. I digress. Give me a second.

I dont expect that many people to know me, but those that do know me probably know I am pretty consistently irritated by one poster who seems to enjoy being the kind of needlessly insulting and patronizing that goes beyond (at times) simply being a blunt poster.

Ive Disliked I believe only a single post of his -because I agree exactly with what you are saying here.

 

[OhExaulted1]

Soo.. I ask this as more of a fun exercise in imagine-ifs.. what would we need to do to fit both Graham and Johnson under the cap?

Brady restructure..

Assassinate Roger.

I dont expect that many people to know me, but those that do know me probably know I am pretty consistently irritated by one poster who seems to enjoy being the kind of needlessly insulting and patronizing that goes beyond (at times) simply being a blunt poster.

Ive Disliked I believe only a single post of his -because I agree exactly with what you are saying here.

And then SB39 strolls into the discussion and......

This move would not make them the greatest team in the history of the NFL. It wouldn't even make them the greatest team in Patriots history.

Removed my disagree. What was the greatest Patriot team in history? They have no chance at being better than what you've chosen? Should we just give up hope and crawl into a corner?

 

[Miguel]

From the CBA: Any Club designating a Franchise Player shall have until 4:00 p.m., New
York time, on July 1 5 of the League Year (or, if July 1 5 falls on a Saturday or Sunday, the
first Monday thereafter) for which the designation takes effect to sign the player to a
multiyear contract or extension. After that date, the player may sign only a one-year
Player Contract with his Prior Club for that season, and such Player Contract may not be
extended until after the Club's last regular season game of that League Year.

 

[rochrist]

Nope. Tempting as that would be I think locking Revis and McCourty up should be the priority and using the firsts to finish rebuilding the DL over the next couple of years will hopefully leave them with a top 5 scoring defense for the remainder of Brady's career. I understand the desire to have that high powered two TE offense but I think a great defense is their best route to another Lombardi, and not an other 35+ points a game offense.

This. I'd much rather they spent the money resigning Revis.

 

[patsinthesnow]

I'm surprised more than a 3rd
of fans here would want to cripple our draft flexibility for two years as well as hand out a high cost longterm deal to a player that plays 60-70% of snaps.

There were some games that Ben Watson had more snaps than Graham!

http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=new-orleans-saints&id=3686&src=desktop

 

[PatFanCraig]

Who wouldn't be all for signing a player who would spring you for a realistic championship. Instead of hoping for a championship. However we can get a player similar to Graham much cheaper. Jermichael Finley is nearly as tall,fast and athletic. Yet he plays with more power and physicality than Graham and blocks very well. Just watch booth on YouTube, their ability is very close while Jermichael will out physical a corner or safety better than Graham while to quick and athletic for most LBs. Just watch YouTube, Finley is nearly as fieldfast and athletic, its pretty damn close. He could put up 1000 yards,10 TDs easily. Packers have more WR options to feed the ball to than the saints who have graham and slowing Colston. He is a dynamic in the red zone with his 6'5 250 lb athletic frame and 35'' arms. However Finley will knock a LB on his *** and lock up with a DE or rush LB. He comes much cheaper than Graham and is basically same age. He has been cleared by his and NFL docs. With Gronks and Finleys passcatching AND BLOCKING dominance I don't see many NFL defenses able to answer. Gronk Finley,Dobson would be awesome in the red zone.

 

[SB39]

I don't see Belichick as the type of guy that would screw a contemporary in Sean Payton for Graham's services right now. Despite whatever feelings people have toward Belichick, he strikes me as a football gentlemen.

Belichick would stab his momma in the back if he thought it would help the Patriots. He had no problem screwing Coughlin with that tight end that the Giants tried to disable a couple years ago.

Of all the reasons I don't see the Patriots doing this, hurting Payton's feelings is not one of them.

 

[SB39]

Removed my disagree. What was the greatest Patriot team in history? They have no chance at being better than what you've chosen? Should we just give up hope and crawl into a corner?

Tough to say. To me it is a toss up between the 2003 team, the 2004 team and yes the even-though-they-didn't-win-the-Super-Bowl 2007 team.

As for your stupid "crawl in the corner" comment, I think the Patriots are poised to seriously contend for the Super Bowl this year, so I don't see anyone crawling into the corner. I'm just glad that the person making the decisions isn't as short sighted as the people in this forum who want to blow up the salary cap and sacrifice 2 first rounders for a guy who on this team would be the #2 tight end.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Who cares if jimmy Graham can't block? That's what gronk is for. Defenses can't cover both him and gronk..the offense would go through the roof.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Tough to say. To me it is a toss up between the 2003 team, the 2004 team and yes the even-though-they-didn't-win-the-Super-Bowl 2007 team.

As for your stupid "crawl in the corner" comment, I think the Patriots are poised to seriously contend for the Super Bowl this year, so I don't see anyone crawling into the corner. I'm just glad that the person making the decisions isn't as short sighted as the people in this forum who want to blow up the salary cap and sacrifice 2 first rounders for a guy who on this team would be the #2 tight end.

No, jimmy graham would be tight end 1B.

 

[Sciz]

Your position seems, to me, to be completely off the mark. JJ Watt is worth 2 firsts. No question.

JJ Watt v. Chandler Jones and Dont'a Hightower

JJ Watt v. Justin Gilbert and Johnny Manziel

JJ Watt v. Sharrif Floyd and Xavier Rhodes

JJ Watt v. Tavon Auston and Alec Ogletree



There are a lot of non-QBs who would be worth two first round picks. Picks, in general, are wildly overrated. Even first round picks produce a 1/3-1/3-1/3 stud/meh/disappointment sort of ratio. GMs are reluctant to make even the obvious moves, though, because they're afraid that they'll be giving up the NEXT JJ Watt with their picks.

Let me say that again.

"There are players that are worth the top contract at their position, and there are players that are worth two first round picks. Outside of a true franchise QB, I don't think there are any players worth both."

JJ Watt does not have the top contract at his position. If we're looking forward to a year or two from now and the Pats had the ability to give up two firsts in order to sign Watt to an $18M a year contract, then no, I wouldn't do that. If you want to call me crazy for that, then feel free, but your previous post is completely misrepresenting my stance here.

 

[Joker]

This entire thread............