Semi - OT: Cowboys Jones hints at end of revenue sharing????

[mgcolby]

One of the reasons that Buffalo has issues is that Ralph Wilson refuses to put any other name on the Stadium but his..

Can't argue with that! Although I have to respect his decision. 10 years ago I could name any stadium, arena or park that any professional team played in. Now I'm lucky if I can tell you the name of the "Garden"!

 

[mgcolby]

I hadn't heard about the Border ID. The cruise lines tell their passengers to have your passport or don't expect to board.. At least that's what they told us..

Speaking of which.. I need to renew mine since it expires in January..

Yeah, now they have a "national ID" that looks like a license or Military ID and you can use it for Cruises and driving across North American borders. It is worthless for air travel, even to Canada and Mexico. Go figure.

So you are better off buying a passport.

 

[swheeler23]

I've been to Qualcomm a few times.. I'd hardly say its "fine". But the City of San Diego is losing tons of revenue with it not being used by the Padres anymore, now that they have PetCo. I mean, there are only so many RV shows that one can do.. However, I think it would be a great place to renovate for new Convention Center...

What do you mean by "anchor babies?"

Anchor babies are kids born in the United States whose parents are here illegally. The parents can not get any government help such as foodstamps and welfare but the kids can.

 

[mgcolby]

Anchor babies are kids born in the United States whose parents are here illegally. The parents can not get any government help such as foodstamps and welfare but the kids can.

You mean dual citizens? Why target the kids?

I hate welfare, probably for all the reasons you do. But if it wasn't for welfare and foodstamps, I wouldn't have eaten as kid. It's a catch 22 if you punish the adults you punish the kids. It sucks but lets call the parents what they are and leave the kids alone, no?

 

[BradyFTW!]

I'll be honest. It's a bluff by Wilson. He can't afford to move the team to Toronto. There are numerous issues it would cause for former Buffalo fans and people going from the US to Canada. First and foremost is the $200 or so to get a passport. Then there is the money exchange and a host of other things..

Is it $200 to get a passport? I got mine in 2006, and I don't remember it costing very much at all.

 

[swheeler23]

You mean dual citizens? Why target the kids?

I hate welfare, probably for all the reasons you do. But if it wasn't for welfare and foodstamps, I wouldn't have eaten as kid. It's a catch 22 if you punish the adults you punish the kids. It sucks but lets call the parents what they are and leave the kids alone, no?

I do not have a problem helping the kids. I do not want to pay for adults who are here illegally. Since Ca. is in such bad shape maybe they will go to other states and your taxes can support them. Nothing wrong with hard working people getting foodstamps and welfare when they lose their jobs.

 

[mgcolby]

I do not have a problem helping the kids. I do not want to pay for adults who are here illegally. Since Ca. is in such bad shape maybe they will go to other states and your taxes can support them. Nothing wrong with hard working people getting foodstamps and welfare when they lose their jobs.

Easy killer. My 7-11 has a 20-30 latino's hanging out in the parking lot too. Hell towns around me built work centers for them.

But its not the "anchor babies" fault they were born in America!!!

 

[swheeler23]

Easy killer. My 7-11 has a 20-30 latino's hanging out in the parking lot too. Hell towns around me built work centers for them.

But its not the "anchor babies" fault they were born in America!!!

No it is their parents fault. Why do we even protect the border then? Just let them come here. They all can be citizens. Enqual right to pay taxes.
Should quit talking politcs in this form. lol!

 

[BradyFTW!]

No it is their parents fault. Why do we even protect the border then? Just let them come here. They all can be citizens. Enqual right to pay taxes.
Should quit talking politcs in this form. lol!

Hahaha, that's my solution. Just declare them all citizens and tax em.

 

[spacecrime]

Could be but if it becomes the status quo for the long run it will have a ******ant effect on the game and league.

College football has 4x as many teams and they produce not that many more competitive games each week because of the disparity between funded and underfunded programs. These programs also have built-in audiences with students and alma mater.

More people watch college footballthan went to college football powers.

If anything, the disparity of college teams strengths and the success college football enjoys shows that parity isn't necessary.

I like parity, and hope it stays, which for me means continued revenue sharing. But the lowincome teams MUST make a better effort. Teams like the Bills that refuse to get naming rights for their stadium, but get a percentage of the money paid by Gillette, FedEx, etc etc for the rights to other stadiums are just plain wrong.

 

[Tunescribe]

Revenue sharing is bad business, imo.

You couldn't be more wrong. Without it, the NFL wouldn't be nearly as successful and you'd see Dallas or Washington in the Super Bowl every year. Buffalo, Green Bay, Jacksonville, etc., would suffer horribly. It would take a lot of fun out of the game.

Jones needs to keep his yap shut. I'm tired of that geezer and his boondoggle indoor video parlor.

 

[DaBruinz]

Can't argue with that! Although I have to respect his decision. 10 years ago I could name any stadium, arena or park that any professional team played in. Now I'm lucky if I can tell you the name of the "Garden"!

To be honest with you, most of these places have kept the name in one way, shape or form..

Like you mentioned, "The Gahden", Wilson could have very easily changed it to "(insert company name)'s Ralph Wilson Stadium"

But, regardless, Wilson doesn't do enough in terms of getting advertisers and he's been hurt by the business failure's of former players like Jim Kelley.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

Cowboys' Jones rips revenue sharing, pushes for new Vikings stadium




Could it be that owners like Jones, Al Davis and Dan Snyder are sick and tired of carrying teams like the Jaquars, Vikings, and Bills??? And having to give tons of their hard earned revenue to those teams just so they can be competitive??? Could Kraft also be one of the owners??

Could the decision to pull out of the CBA actually have been orchestrated by the owners who are the "HAVES" of the league???

This is going to make things really really interesting for the next CBA...

Notice the recent "rehabilitation" of BB in the media?

The Pats are unique because they combine superior financial resources and opportunity with superior organization. Snyder and Jones have superior revenue generation and inept organizational skills.

Jones and Snyder couldn't field competitive teams with the DOD budget so I believe the recent bringing the Pats "into the fold" stories are designed for Mr Kraft to be the power broker in the league.

Ultimately, maybe revenue sharing is somewhat de emphasized but only to the point where it doesn't leave the Pats in a position to run off 10-10 Super Bowls in a 15 year period.

 

[upstater1]

I'm not a huge fan of the "taxpayer" paying for stadiums. But you can't compare any of what you threw in there to taxpayers paying for stadiums. Sports teams generate large amounts of tax revenue. People come from all over the country to attend football games. I know when I go to a game in another state, I have to pay a lodging tax, sales tax, gas tax, food tax, rental car tax, airport tax etc.... all to attend one game. Now if I stay for a week which I usually do, I spend money in restaurants, tourist traps etc...

It is beyond shortminded to compare a sports team to a normal business or a tax sucking program. I can't think of a non-sports event that can bring up to 20,000-30,000 people from out of town/state on a weekly and even daily basis for other leagues.

Sports teams and public stadiums (concerts, functions...etc) generate a ton of revenue for the city/state. Between sales taxes for food and beer - payroll taxes for the thousands of people it takes to operate a stadium for a single event, parking revenue (I know Cincy gets all of the parking revenue collected by the city parking lots, which is 99% of the parking for a Bengals game), not to mention the payroll taxes for the players and the business taxes collected against the teams earnings. Lets not pretend it's something that it isn't....a handout!

The problem Jones and others have with the system is the handout. All of the teams you listed with maybe the exception of Buffalo (not sure if Ralph paid for the stadium or not) have had most of their stadiums built, if not all, by the taxpayers. Yet they still don't put the same effort into marketing, they don't inves the same percentage into payroll, scouting etc... as the Krafts, Jones, Snyders.

The payout is not anywhere near the cost of the stadium. I read Andrew Zimbalist's analysis on this just last year. The money doesn't add up. Some localities have done it with bonds, but they are getting killed with servicing. Just look at Indianapolis. They are trying to get the rest of the state to pay for it. The money really isn't there. You can make the same argument about income for practically any public project, including higher education. The income from higher education to any locality is huge. But that hasn't stopped states from slashing expenditures in that area by 10%+.

As for investing the same percentage into payroll, those teams invest a HIGHER percentage into payroll. This is easy to figure out. They make less revenues, but they pay up to the salary cap.

 

[upstater1]

Buffalo plays in a taxpayer funded stadium...the third oldest one(San Fran and Oakland are older). Wilson's games in Toronto are attempts to get a new stadium for the Bills, it's a legitimate threat to move out of the area to Toronto if they can't force someone around the area to build one for them.

No, the stadium just got renovated within the last decade. They aren't going to build a new stadium. There was some talk a few years ago that the state would build one when they were contemplating one in NYC for the Jets. But when that project cratered, all talk of a new one in Buffalo died. The Buffalo area doesn't need a new stadium because there aren't enough corporations clammering for new boxes, etc. Toronto is an attempt to expand the fanbase. Buffalo is an area with 1.2 million people, it draws lots of fans from Rochester (1.1 million people) and the Niagara/Erie, Canada area (500k). Toronto is 1 hour and 20 minutes away (5 million people). The Bills are trying to become more regional with Buffalo being somewhat in the center of a region with 8 million people in a 2 or 3 hour's drive stretch.

 

[upstater1]

I'll be honest. It's a bluff by Wilson. He can't afford to move the team to Toronto. There are numerous issues it would cause for former Buffalo fans and people going from the US to Canada. First and foremost is the $200 or so to get a passport. Then there is the money exchange and a host of other things..

If the Bills move to Buffalo, they lose a lot of Buffalo fans. Toronto has more than enough people to make up for that though.

That being said, Buffalo and Canadian people have a long history of crossing the border at a whim. 20% of the season ticket base is already Canadian. I cross over to eat at the best Chinese restaurant in the region, to pick up cheaper whiskey, to go to the beach, to go on a long bike ride along Lake Erie, and a host of other reasons. Canadians are always crossing over for theater, music, shopping, to fly out of the airport, and restaurants. 500k live on the Canadian side and 1.2 million on the American side. Many families own houses on both sides.

 

[BradyFTW!]

The payout is not anywhere near the cost of the stadium. I read Andrew Zimbalist's analysis on this just last year. The money doesn't add up. Some localities have done it with bonds, but they are getting killed with servicing. Just look at Indianapolis. They are trying to get the rest of the state to pay for it. The money really isn't there. You can make the same argument about income for practically any public project, including higher education. The income from higher education to any locality is huge. But that hasn't stopped states from slashing expenditures in that area by 10%+.

As for investing the same percentage into payroll, those teams invest a HIGHER percentage into payroll. This is easy to figure out. They make less revenues, but they pay up to the salary cap.

I read something more or less to this effect about a year ago. Basically, that while these stadiums do bring a lot of money back to the local economy, it never really adds up. During the stadium rush of the last 10 years, cities were justifying stadiums based on some pretty astronomical projections and assumptions regarding the stadiums completely revitalizing the areas where they're built, but it usually doesn't happen to nearly the extent that would be necessary to make it a wise investment.

 

[mgcolby]

The payout is not anywhere near the cost of the stadium. I read Andrew Zimbalist's analysis on this just last year. The money doesn't add up. Some localities have done it with bonds, but they are getting killed with servicing. Just look at Indianapolis. They are trying to get the rest of the state to pay for it. The money really isn't there. You can make the same argument about income for practically any public project, including higher education. The income from higher education to any locality is huge. But that hasn't stopped states from slashing expenditures in that area by 10%+.

As for investing the same percentage into payroll, those teams invest a HIGHER percentage into payroll. This is easy to figure out. They make less revenues, but they pay up to the salary cap.

I wasn't talking about the investment in building it per say. More about the income that a sports team brings into the City and to some degree the state. There is a tax on everything that has anything to do with travel/tourism. I was just pointing out all of the taxes that are collected by the city when folks come in from out of town or travel from another state and have to fly in, rent a car and stay in a hotel. Was all of that accounted for in the article?

I wasn't talking about the teams revenue percentage, I was just talking about payroll taxes in general that go to the state.

 

[mgteich]

There are better methods than subsidizing owners who haven't a clue what to do to make money and refuse advice from those owners who do.

Cities that cannot support a team shouldn't have one. Of course, part of the support is local TV audience. Owners who will not market and will not act responsibly enough to make money should be ALLOWED to fail.

I am not suggesting serious changes to the draft and cap structure that has given the NFL its success. Some minor changes are inevitable and are included in each CBA. I am suggesting that moving failing teams will help rather than hurt the league. And if the league needs to go back to 30 healthy teams for awhile, the league will benefit long-run when new financially sound teams are added. There would be no lost jobs if rosters were increased to 57 to make up for the reduction in the number of teams.

The REAL revenue sharing issues are between the teams and the players. The open questions including how high the percentage should be and what revenues should be included and excluded.

So, if I were the owners, I would consider identifying the losing teams and see how many can be moved and which will fail and go forward. This should be done as part of the implementation of the new CBA.

 

[upstater1]

I wasn't talking about the investment in building it per say. More about the income that a sports team brings into the City and to some degree the state. There is a tax on everything that has anything to do with travel/tourism. I was just pointing out all of the taxes that are collected by the city when folks come in from out of town or travel from another state and have to fly in, rent a car and stay in a hotel. Was all of that accounted for in the article?

I wasn't talking about the teams revenue percentage, I was just talking about payroll taxes in general that go to the state.

Right, that's what Zimbalist was looking at. Impact on the town. He's an expert in these matters.

Here's a blog where he addresses the same things: Questions for Sports Economist Andrew Zimbalist - Freakonomics Blog - NYTimes.com

The essay I was referring to was an analysis of the research.