Secondary - Two Very Different Choices

[mgteich]

We needed to solve the problem at strong safety.

BROWNER AS A STRONG SAFETY
----------------------------------
This is the direct approach.
CORNERS - Ryan and Dennard would compete for starter and dime back. Arrington would stay in the slot where he is one of the best. We would have a JAG as the 5th corner.
SAFETIES - McCourty and Browner would be an awesome combination. We'd have Harmon as the #3. Tavon Wilson would again fight for his position as #4 safety with a vet and/or a youngster.
CONCLUSION
This would be one of the best patriots secondaries ever.

BROWNER AS A CORNER
--------------------------
CORNERS - Our starters would be one of the very best in the league. Arrington is one of the best in the slot. Ryan and Dennard would be competing for the dime spot. This seems a waste of talent. It would seem that one might also get some reps at safety.
SAFETY - All safeties would play better having top corners. Harmon would be a starter unless Dennard or Ryan moves over and can beat him out for a job. Also, a free agent could beat him out. Unless a corner moves over, it would seem that we should be signing a veteran strong safety (to compete with the Wilson's).
CONCLUSION
The safety play would improve because of the awesomeness of the corners. If the strong safety situation were solved, this would be the best secondary the patriots have had since we started only first rounders.

YES I UNDERSTAND
that there could be injuries in camp. But for now, we have one two many corner capable of starting.

 

[everlong]

It's going to depend on the matchups. If the second receiver is a Steve Smith type Dennard, Ryan or Arrington will probably draw the assignment. You're playing Denver and he draws Julius Thomas. You play the Bears and Revis gets Marshall and Browner gets Jeffery.

That's the great thing about this move it gives you tons of flexibility.

 

[mgteich]

I agree that much changes with matchup.

HOWEVER, for me, it is interesting to consider a default nickel with Revis on one side of the field, Browner on the other and Arrington in the slot.

It's going to depend on the matchups. If the second receiver is a Steve Smith type Dennard, Ryan or Arrington will probably draw the assignment. You're playing Denver and he draws Julius Thomas. You play the Bears and Revis gets Marshall and Browner gets Jeffery.

That's the great thing about this move it gives you tons of flexibility.

 

[Ring 6]

We needed to solve the problem at strong safety.

BROWNER AS A STRONG SAFETY
----------------------------------
This is the direct approach.
CORNERS - Ryan and Dennard would compete for starter and dime back. Arrington would stay in the slot where he is one of the best. We would have a JAG as the 5th corner.
SAFETIES - McCourty and Browner would be an awesome combination. We'd have Harmon as the #3. Tavon Wilson would again fight for his position as #4 safety with a vet and/or a youngster.
CONCLUSION
This would be one of the best patriots secondaries ever.

BROWNER AS A CORNER
--------------------------
CORNERS - Our starters would be one of the very best in the league. Arrington is one of the best in the slot. Ryan and Dennard would be competing for the dime spot. This seems a waste of talent. It would seem that one might also get some reps at safety.
SAFETY - All safeties would play better having top corners. Harmon would be a starter unless Dennard or Ryan moves over and can beat him out for a job. Also, a free agent could beat him out. Unless a corner moves over, it would seem that we should be signing a veteran strong safety (to compete with the Wilson's).
CONCLUSION
The safety play would improve because of the awesomeness of the corners. If the strong safety situation were solved, this would be the best secondary the patriots have had since we started only first rounders.

YES I UNDERSTAND
that there could be injuries in camp. But for now, we have one two many corner capable of starting.

I like Browner at corner, jamming WRs. I think though, that we will see lots of man coverage, and who is on the field is there for matchups, not position.
For example, we would cover Jimmy Graham with a corner, which may mean we only have one safety on the field. However against the Jets or Bills after we exile Decker or Johnson to Revis Island we may want more safety skills on the field. I think against teams like that with one big threat and a bunch of flotsam and jetsom, we play the pass defense version of a box and one,with Browner jamming the next best guy and having help over the top.

 

[Ring 6]

We needed to solve the problem at strong safety.

BROWNER AS A STRONG SAFETY
----------------------------------
This is the direct approach.
CORNERS - Ryan and Dennard would compete for starter and dime back. Arrington would stay in the slot where he is one of the best. We would have a JAG as the 5th corner.
SAFETIES - McCourty and Browner would be an awesome combination. We'd have Harmon as the #3. Tavon Wilson would again fight for his position as #4 safety with a vet and/or a youngster.
CONCLUSION
This would be one of the best patriots secondaries ever.

BROWNER AS A CORNER
--------------------------
CORNERS - Our starters would be one of the very best in the league. Arrington is one of the best in the slot. Ryan and Dennard would be competing for the dime spot. This seems a waste of talent. It would seem that one might also get some reps at safety.
SAFETY - All safeties would play better having top corners. Harmon would be a starter unless Dennard or Ryan moves over and can beat him out for a job. Also, a free agent could beat him out. Unless a corner moves over, it would seem that we should be signing a veteran strong safety (to compete with the Wilson's).
CONCLUSION
The safety play would improve because of the awesomeness of the corners. If the strong safety situation were solved, this would be the best secondary the patriots have had since we started only first rounders.

YES I UNDERSTAND
that there could be injuries in camp. But for now, we have one two many corner capable of starting.

I'm not as ready as you to give up on Adrian Wilson.
He was one of the best safeties in the NFL in the past decade, and that skillset would fit in very, very well with this group. (Think a Browner type at BOTH cb and S). I think there is a reasonable level of hope that the injury that caused him to miss all of last year explains his dropoff more than age. Given a year to rehab, that step may be back, and he could be a great fit with this group.

 

[PatsChamp88]

I'm not as ready as you to give up on Adrian Wilson.
He was one of the best safeties in the NFL in the past decade, and that skillset would fit in very, very well with this group. (Think a Browner type at BOTH cb and S). I think there is a reasonable level of hope that the injury that caused him to miss all of last year explains his dropoff more than age. Given a year to rehab, that step may be back, and he could be a great fit with this group.

Not to mention he's only making $1.5 million and will be ready for OTAs

 

[PatsChamp88]

Answering the safety question. Some have asked if Browner might be a candidate to play safety, where the Patriots might be looking for reinforcements. The thought from here is that would eliminate one of his best assets -- the ability to get his hands on receivers at the line of scrimmage and disrupt the rhythm of the passing game with physical play.

Rapid reaction on New England Patriots signing Brandon Browner - ESPN Boston

Good point there

 

[Ring 6]

Not to mention he's only making $1.5 million and will be ready for OTAs

I just have a hard time giving up on a guy who has the make up that let him play at an allpro level for many years having a year to work his ***** off in rehab and come back better than he was before.
Not that there is any certainty, but I am hopeful. Most times the difference between players is commitment and work ethic more than a big gap in talent.

 

[mgteich]

I have us signing a veteran safety to compete with Adrian Wilson and Tavon Wilson for a roster spot. Obviously, the Wilson's and whoever we add is also competing with Harmon for starting reps.

I'm not sure that this means that I am giving up on Adrian Wilson.

To be more blunt, we have 1 starting safety and a safety who is likely to get significant reps (McCourty and Haromn). After that, there is a hole. Adrian Wilson and Tavon Wilson could be our #3 and #4 safeties (or one could be the 2nd starter).

In any case, I don't think that Belichick would consider the safety position all set with McCourty, haromn, Wilson, Wilson and Ebner. I suspect that Belichick will bring in more competition, especially if Browner will be primarily a corner.

I'm not as ready as you to give up on Adrian Wilson.
He was one of the best safeties in the NFL in the past decade, and that skillset would fit in very, very well with this group. (Think a Browner type at BOTH cb and S). I think there is a reasonable level of hope that the injury that caused him to miss all of last year explains his dropoff more than age. Given a year to rehab, that step may be back, and he could be a great fit with this group.

 

[Deus Irae]

Dennard beat out Arrington on the outside. Dennard might also beat out Arrington in the slot. Time will tell, but not for at least 4 games.

 

[PatsChamp88]

I have us signing a veteran safety to compete with Adrian Wilson and Tavon Wilson for a roster spot. Obviously, the Wilson's and whoever we add is also competing with Harmon for starting reps.

I'm not sure that this means that I am giving up on Adrian Wilson.

To be more blunt, we have 1 starting safety and a safety who is likely to get significant reps (McCourty and Haromn). After that, there is a hole. Adrian Wilson and Tavon Wilson could be our #3 and #4 safeties (or one could be the 2nd starter).

In any case, I don't think that Belichick would consider the safety position all set with McCourty, haromn, Wilson, Wilson and Ebner. I suspect that Belichick will bring in more competition, especially if Browner will be primarily a corner.

Who's left the sign? The only name that comes to mind is Chris Clemons but I don't think we can afford him

 

[Patriot Missile]

As far as I'm concerned the 2ndary has enough parts to leave well enough alone. Depth at every turn. All their roles are interchangeable, and undefined. CB to safety, reverse, 5,6 or 7 with no definative role roaming the backfield. Mass hysteria, cats sleeping with dogs, Real wrath of BB stuff.

 

[Brady6]

We needed to solve the problem at strong safety.

BROWNER AS A STRONG SAFETY
----------------------------------
This is the direct approach.
CORNERS - Ryan and Dennard would compete for starter and dime back. Arrington would stay in the slot where he is one of the best. We would have a JAG as the 5th corner.
SAFETIES - McCourty and Browner would be an awesome combination. We'd have Harmon as the #3. Tavon Wilson would again fight for his position as #4 safety with a vet and/or a youngster.
CONCLUSION
This would be one of the best patriots secondaries ever.

BROWNER AS A CORNER
--------------------------
CORNERS - Our starters would be one of the very best in the league. Arrington is one of the best in the slot. Ryan and Dennard would be competing for the dime spot. This seems a waste of talent. It would seem that one might also get some reps at safety.
SAFETY - All safeties would play better having top corners. Harmon would be a starter unless Dennard or Ryan moves over and can beat him out for a job. Also, a free agent could beat him out. Unless a corner moves over, it would seem that we should be signing a veteran strong safety (to compete with the Wilson's).
CONCLUSION
The safety play would improve because of the awesomeness of the corners. If the strong safety situation were solved, this would be the best secondary the patriots have had since we started only first rounders.

YES I UNDERSTAND
that there could be injuries in camp. But for now, we have one two many corner capable of starting.

Couple of thoughts –

1. The Patriots do not use a strong safety they use a left safety and a right safety. If expect Belichick to look at it as four DBs.

LCB – Revis
RCB – Dennard
LS – Browner
RS – McCourty

Browner and McCourty are CBs so they will be able to rotate up to cover WRs, TEs, or RBs 1on1 in man coverage if the team flexes out.

2. I think that you are significantly undervaluing Dennard and underrating how good he is. He is a terrific corner and despite playing through a knee injury last season he played 15 total games and finished with 45 tackles, 3 interceptions, 12 pass defends, 50.45% completions against, and 68.4 pass rating against.

3. Kyle Arrington is not one of the best in the slot, that has always been exaggerated, he is significantly better in the slot than he is outside so it give the perception of excellence as a slot CB but he has been replaced in each of the past two season by Cole, Moore, and Ryan for poor play.

4. Harmon is a capable safety, his passer rating against was just 52.4 last season, and despite regressing in year two T Wilson showed potential in 2012 to play well, and in his limited opportunity last season he had a passer rating against of just 35.4.

5. A Wilson was injured last season so it was difficult to determine if he has anything left in the tank, I have not concluded that he is done and I think there is a possibility that he could play early downs as the in box safety and help in the run game. His athletic ability may have regressed to the degree that he can no longer play in coverage but at age 34 and 6’3” 235Lbs., he could serve as a fourth LB on early downs.

 

[Brady6]

Who's left the sign? The only name that comes to mind is Chris Clemons but I don't think we can afford him

There is some solid depth safeties on the market, none of them would be significant upgrades over Harmon in my opinion though.

- Clemons
- DeCoud
- Gregory
- Clarke
- Ihedigbo
- Lewis

 

[manxman2601]

The one player I'd like to add is an explosive linebacker/safety hybrid through the draft that competes with Adrian Wilson in the short term and replaces him in the long term. Ryan Shazier, Telvin Smith and Kevin Pierre-Louis are the three in particular that I'm thinking of. Christian Jones and Jordan Tripp, whilst more pure linebackers, are also possibilities. I think this player, along with Jamie Collins gives the opposing offense even more to think about in terms of who's dropping and who's blitzing. It also leaves Mayo to play more of a cover-2 MLB role or a spy limiting his exposure in man coverage.

 

[mgteich]

My issues is NOT whether one of these players is better than Harmon. A new signedd would not replace Harmon on the roster.

The question is whether they would be upgrades over any of our #3, #4 and #5 safeties: Adrian Wilson, Tavon Wilson and Ebner.

We carry usually carry ten defensive backs (although 9-11 is certainly reasonable). We have 5 corners including Browner who certainly can play safety. We have 5 safeties. We also have a couple of Practice Squad type players.

Disagree if you wish, but I would rather have one of the players you listed on the squad and lose on the Wilsons. To out it another way, it would be good to sign on the players you list as camp competition and in case there is an injury in camp.

There is some solid depth safeties on the market, none of them would be significant upgrades over Harmon in my opinion though.

- Clemons
- DeCoud
- Gregory
- Clarke
- Ihedigbo
- Lewis

 

[Brady6]

My issues is NOT whether one of these players is better than Harmon. A new signedd would not replace Harmon on the roster.

The question is whether they would be upgrades over any of our #3, #4 and #5 safeties: Adrian Wilson, Tavon Wilson and Ebner.

We carry usually carry ten defensive backs (although 9-11 is certainly reasonable). We have 5 corners including Browner who certainly can play safety. We have 5 safeties. We also have a couple of Practice Squad type players.

Disagree if you wish, but I would rather have one of the players you listed on the squad and lose on the Wilsons. To out it another way, it would be good to sign on the players you list as camp competition and in case there is an injury in camp.

The only intriguing player on the UFA market in my opinion is Kendrick Lewis who is still relatively young at 25 years old, outside of that the draft is the only place that offers something better than what we have in my opinion.

 

[mgteich]

I am not "intrigued" by the others. I simply think that we should have competition for the Wilsons and Ebner.

If anyone is intriguing it is Ihedigbo. There is a degree of karma in bringing him back to replace Tavon Wilson.

The only intriguing player on the UFA market in my opinion is Kendrick Lewis who is still relatively young at 25 years old, outside of that the draft is the only place that offers something better than what we have in my opinion.

 

[patsfan-1982]

BB is the type of guy that likes to play things out week to week and match up to match up, but for me if Jamie Collins can make the step in year two and became a really good coverage LB I would use him as the SS with Browner Revis and Dennard as the CB's with McCourty deep over top,


I don't know if that works as a base defense but for 3rd and long it could work you got McCourty over top so no one can get deep with Collins a 250lb LB ready to hit any WR or RB coming over the middle and Revis Dennard and Browner locking down the other teams top 3 WR's

 

[PatsFanInVa]

That's the great thing about this move it gives you tons of flexibility.

Oh sure for us fans, but Bill must HATE all those decisions he has to make when he has a versatile mix to draw from...