Safeties to watch (merged)

[WaterfallJumper]

Re: Safety Position

Lester is 6'2 #210, which would make him a good deal larger than Meriweather. So it's not that he's "on the smaller side," but rather that he doesn't always break down properly and line up his hits. If he improves his tackling, I'll clamor for us to draft him. Until then, give me a more consistent player.

 

[patchick]

Re: Safety Position

Kenny Tate is an animal and would be an animal in our defense. Could line him up all over the field and do many different things with him.

I would LOVE to see Tate on this team. He was one of my favorite targets for this past draft, I was a little surprised he didn't declare. Maybe he sees himself as a LB long term and wanted a season to show his value at that position?

 

[Tasco]

Re: Safety Position

Lester is 6'2 #210, which would make him a good deal larger than Meriweather. So it's not that he's "on the smaller side," but rather that he doesn't always break down properly and line up his hits. If he improves his tackling, I'll clamor for us to draft him. Until then, give me a more consistent player.

Looking at the videos it was like watching a younger BM...he had some brilliant plays in coverage, had some mental lapses where he completely blew his assignmente, had some nice reads and tackles for loss, then again he took some really bad angles and tackles...

but that was only what my untrained eye saw...might be completely wrong.

In any case we absolutely need a S in the 1st round next year imo (coupled with a C in the 1st, a DE and an OLB in the 2nd).

 

[s3antana5757]

Re: Safety Position

Lester is 6'2 #210, which would make him a good deal larger than Meriweather. So it's not that he's "on the smaller side," but rather that he doesn't always break down properly and line up his hits. If he improves his tackling, I'll clamor for us to draft him. Until then, give me a more consistent player.

Hate to break this to you, but Lester is going to be just as frustrating as Meriweather. The man is the worst tackler. He's much better in coverage, but loves to gamble and go for INT's.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

Re: Safety Position

Hate to break this to you, but Lester is going to be just as frustrating as Meriweather. The man is the worst tackler. He's much better in coverage, but loves to gamble and go for INT's.

Um. Yes? I agree with you. That's exactly what I said on page one. I posted video of his season as well as my analysis that his tackling is insufficient. I was simply correcting another poster who opined that Lester was "on the smaller side."

I like Meriweather better than any safety in next year's draft class. I think he's got a lot of talent, and I'm excited to see how he'll perform this season.

For the record, I had Butler, Chung, and Dowling in my mock drafts before each of their respective rookie years, and McCourty was at least on my radar as a Pats-style DB, although I had him pegged as a late second rounder. I also thought Arrington would stick long term as soon as I heard we'd signed him. I think I have a good idea of what the Patriots are looking for in a defensive back, and other than Delano Howell, whom I posted about earlier (and who remains an unfinished product), I don't see any safeties in this upcoming draft class who fit the Patriots profile.

We'll see what happens.

 

[Off The Grid]

Re: Safety Position

Hate to break this to you, but Lester is going to be just as frustrating as Meriweather. The man is the worst tackler. He's much better in coverage, but loves to gamble and go for INT's.

You may be right about Lester, my good man, but I cannt imagine why you addressed that post to Brother Ream, who'd already made precisely the point that you chose to repeat.

 

[Wilfork#75]

Re: Safety Position

I just went back and watched some tape on these safeties from 2010. The guy that really stood out to me was TJ McDonald from USC. He's got a good blend of size, strength and athletecism at 6'2" 205lbs. He's got great insticts and plays the run well, wrapping up the ball carrier unlike a lot of college safeties, but he can also put on a big hit. He's decent in coverage, and should improve with playing time. Overall I think he is the best safety in this class at the moment, with an early 2nd round grade.

The other safety I really like is Mark Barron from Alabama. He's a big, violent hitter, strong against the run and has great insticts. He's decent in coverage but lacks the closing speed to be elite. One thing he does do is make WR's think twice about going over the middle. I'd love to get him in the 3rd or 4th round as a solid rotational safety. If he had elite speed I think he would be the top SS in this draft.

I really wan't to love Robert Lester but I just can't at the moment. I love his speed, athletecism and coverage abilities, but his complete refusal to tackle really deters me. Its not that he's a bad tackler, he just refuses to tackle properly. (To be fair to Lester he did have 1 beautiful tackle 1 on 1 against Cam Newton in the Auburn game.) I don't know what it is with some of these guys, but they refuse to tackle with any technique and just throw themselves at the ballcarriers legs. I don't know if its the pads and helmet that make them feel invincible, but these guys just throw themselves around looking for big hits instead of trying to wrap up the ball carrier. If he can learn to tackle I think he can be a 1st rounder, but at the moment I don't see any safeties worthy of a 1st round grade.

The other guy I'm really interested in is Kenny Tate, but he will be tough to evaluate this year because he will be playing linebacker. Although that could help the Pats because I think not playing safety will hurt his draft stock. Like BelichickFan said, Tate would be an animal in this defence and I'd love to grab him in the 2nd or 3rd round.

 

[Frick]

Re: Safety Position

Assuming Bill buys us a pony for xmas, that is, he drafts Mike Brewster C, OSU and trades a couple of picks to bolster the 2013 draft (we have only five picks in '13: a 1st,2nd,3rd,4th and 7th), do you see a good prospect that we could grab with say a late 2nd, 3rd, 4th or some combination of these ?

Picture this for a moment- resign Koppen for 2 yrs., draft Brewster, our O-LINE would be: Light, Solder, Koppen, Brewster, Mankins, Canon, Connelly, Vollmer, Maneri.

Sorry, have to wipe the tears from my eyes. I got my pony, I got a saddle, cowboy hat, boots! With that group I got everything.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Re: Safety Position

Not sure BB is going all out after any Bama players. His kinship with Saban may have taken a hit when Nick was at Miami and got audio tape of Brady's audibles. We could have had T. Cody. Didn't bite. Could have had M. Ingram traded out and grabbed a couple of other rb's. I wouldn't pencil in interest on Bama players because of Belichick/Saban relationship.

I still struggle to comprehend how BB could pass on Cody.

 

[Defsoul]

Re: Safety Position

So Janzen Jackson got kicked off Tennessee's team. He failed drug tests accodring to ESPN. Maybe he can play for University of North Alabama, team up with Janoris Jenkins.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Re: Safety Position

So Janzen Jackson got kicked off Tennessee's team. He failed drug tests accodring to ESPN. Maybe he can play for University of North Alabama, team up with Janoris Jenkins.

Very sad, let's hope the kid turns his life around sooner rather than later.

 

[BillBelichickFan79]

Re: Safety Position

Say what you want about Jackson, but the kid can play. Tennessee is one of my favorite teams so I try to catch them every chance I get.

Besides Eric Berry, the two guys I've really wanted to see on the Pats have been Denarius Moore and Janzen Jackson. I thought Moore would be a perfect fit in this offense. Pretty good deep speed to take a shot downfield every now and then in addition to good route running. Saw shades of Greg Jennings in him -- who would be a monster in this offense.

Jackson came into Tennessee as a corner but was moved to safety. He's got a pretty nice combination of coverage/ball hawking skills and physical/wood-laying ability. He's a much more complete player than a guy like Lester.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Re: Safety Position

Besides Eric Berry, the two guys I've really wanted to see on the Pats have been Denarius Moore and Janzen Jackson. I thought Moore would be a perfect fit in this offense. Pretty good deep speed to take a shot downfield every now and then in addition to good route running. Saw shades of Greg Jennings in him -- who would be a monster in this offense.

I think I had the Pats taking Moore in my mock draft last year. When you consider the QB situation at Tenn. then look at Moore's numbers, you begin to see how good he was last year.

We took Ridley, a guy with limited starting experience and in my mind, except for picking up the blitz, he has performed fairly well. It would have been nice to take Moore as well even if we have to stash him on IR for a year.

Let's face it, Branch is not the same player he was before the knee injury, Chad Johnson is a stop gap at best for a year, Welker could leave via Free Agency and Tate is a return man as best.

Edelman, Price, Hernandez and some huge TE's are not going to scare many defenses.

 

[BillBelichickFan79]

Re: Safety Position

I think I had the Pats taking Moore in my mock draft last year. When you consider the QB situation at Tenn. then look at Moore's numbers, you begin to see how good he was last year.

We took Ridley, a guy with limited starting experience and in my mind, except for picking up the blitz, he has performed fairly well. It would have been nice to take Moore as well even if we have to stash him on IR for a year.

Let's face it, Branch is not the same player he was before the knee injury, Chad Johnson is a stop gap at best for a year, Welker could leave via Free Agency and Tate is a return man as best.

Edelman, Price, Hernandez and some huge TE's are not going to scare many defenses.

Agreed. I was pretty high on Moore this year after I realized we had no shot at getting Green or Jones. Thought he had everything the Pats-styled offense looks for in a WR. In 2010 I was high on Arrelious Benn and Mike Williams, in 2009 I wanted Harvin. I just haven't been content with our situation at WR. Even when we had Moss back in 2009 (who I didn't love anyway), we had guys like Galloway/Stanback/Aiken as our 3rd WR -- absolute garbage -- and it showed in that playoff loss to Baltimore when Welker couldn't suit up. It's been a problem for a while now.

The three best weapons the Pats have are Hernandez, Welker, and Gronk. It's great that we finally have some TE's, but we are lacking in the WR department (again).

And although Welker is probably the best in the game (at the moment) at what he does in the slot, he's not going to consistently win on the outside for you. He's just not an outside the numbers WR.

I was not the biggest fan of Moss and I'm not one of those fans who think we need a "deep threat" to "take the top off the defense and stretch the field." I do, however, think we need more talent on the outside. To ask Deion Branch to be your #1 outside the numbers WR at this point in his career is crazy. Even if Ochocinco gets his act together and steps up, he's a stop gap at best (as you said) and is not the same player he once was.

Any hope of Larry Fitzgerald is officially gone and that was a pipe dream anyway. Guess we can hope to make a run at Vincent Jackson in the off-season if he isn't locked up by the Chargers. But then again, the Pats seldom throw big money at the big fish on the FA market.

I love what we have at TE -- Hernandez is one of my favorite players on offense. I love what we have in the slot -- Welker backed up by Edelman. But on the outside, we severely lack a consistent playmaker. He doesn't have to be a 6'5 freak of nature like Calvin Johnson. As much as I'd love to see a Calvin or Fitzgerald type, I'd be perfectly content with guys like Greg Jennings, Mike Wallce, or Percy Harvin, all of whom I think would do massive damage in this offense.

Would Belichick spend a first round pick on Alshon Jeffery or Justin Blackmon in 2012? Highly unlikely, but who knows. I never thought he'd spend a first round pick on a project LT who may not start in his first year.

 

[jr_3421]

Re: Safety Position

I just went back and watched some tape on these safeties from 2010. The guy that really stood out to me was TJ McDonald from USC. He's got a good blend of size, strength and athletecism at 6'2" 205lbs. He's got great insticts and plays the run well, wrapping up the ball carrier unlike a lot of college safeties, but he can also put on a big hit. He's decent in coverage, and should improve with playing time. Overall I think he is the best safety in this class at the moment, with an early 2nd round grade.

Bingo. I really think this kid will be the best safety out of this draft class if he declares. He really stands out as a tackler and is very solid in coverage as well. I think he will only come out if he raises his draft grade to 1st round though.

 

[patsfaninpa]

Re: Safety Position

Assuming Bill buys us a pony for xmas, that is, he drafts Mike Brewster C, OSU and trades a couple of picks to bolster the 2013 draft (we have only five picks in '13: a 1st,2nd,3rd,4th and 7th), do you see a good prospect that we could grab with say a late 2nd, 3rd, 4th or some combination of these ?

Picture this for a moment- resign Koppen for 2 yrs., draft Brewster, our O-LINE would be: Light, Solder, Koppen, Brewster, Mankins, Canon, Connelly, Vollmer, Maneri.

Sorry, have to wipe the tears from my eyes. I got my pony, I got a saddle, cowboy hat, boots! With that group I got everything.

Keep an eye on Peter Konz - C - Wisconsin is a junior. But, he's every bit the prospect Brewster is. Wisky moved Moffitt their G that was drafted this year out of C to make room for him. You don't make any money now until your first contract is up. I expect a lot of juniors to declare and get close to free agency without spending a year in college and get dropped in rankings or hurt.

 

[Sciz]

Re: Safety Position

One thing to note about McDonald is that his dad (Tim) played safety at the NFL level for 13 seasons, with 40 picks and 6 Pro Bowls. We all know how sentimental Belichick can get sometimes.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Re: Safety Position

Keep an eye on Peter Konz - C - Wisconsin is a junior. But, he's every bit the prospect Brewster is. Wisky moved Moffitt their G that was drafted this year out of C to make room for him. You don't make any money now until your first contract is up. I expect a lot of juniors to declare and get close to free agency without spending a year in college and get dropped in rankings or hurt.

In my mind this kid is the best center in this class, if he declares, which I hope he does not and stays in school.

He is incredibly stout at the POA, natural knee bender, fires off the ball well. Capable of moving most all college DT's without, yes I said without, help from an OG. Incredibly mobile when you realize that Wisconsin uses him to lead sweeps.

Pass protection is spotty, but some of that Dante can fix due to poor hand technique.

As far as grading the O line going into this season, Konz is #2 behind OT Martin of Stanford, an absolute BEAST at OT, nasty, powerful and smart.

Kahlil the USC OT is probably my #3 O Line prospect.

 

[KevinFaulk-33]

Safeties to watch

I think that the biggest weakness in our defense is the safety opposite to Chung, and I also think that neither Brown nor Barrett are long term answers. So I was wondering if there is a good safety in this year draft that can be a day 1 starter. I would like a good FS...

 

[patsfaninpa]

I think that the biggest weakness in our defense is the safety opposite to Chung, and I also think that neither Brown nor Barrett are long term answers. So I was wondering if there is a good safety in this year draft that can be a day 1 starter. I would like a good FS...

Couldn't agree more. But, we do need to improve the pass rush just as much. Our safeties have been in position to make numerous plays. They just can't play the damn ball. Look like college def. backs. We need the classic CF type. Doesn't have to be as tough as nails. Just has to have good range and ball skills. I'd like to draft one and also sign a veteran with those skills to bring him along. The Bama kids look more like Patrick Chung than what we need. I'm intrigued by TJ McDonald - USC. His dad was a pretty good safety back in the day. Tim. And, he seems like a play maker on a defense with not much around him. I get worried about players on great college defenses. It's hard to judge them individually, when there are 7-8 NFL prospects around them.