S. Holmes: "Numbers speak... on how well those guys are NOT playing on their defense"

[goheels22002]

Re: S. Holmes: "Numbers speak... on how well those guys are NOT playing on their defe

Who said Ochocinco was elite. He is the #3 WR on this team. He is also 33 years old. I am not down on Ochocinco like most on this board, but that is faint praise for Holmes.

Ochocinco was the #1 in Cincinnati last year with TO being the #1A and came into Foxboro with lots of hype as the replacement for Randy Moss.

Basically I agree with you so far. I'd rank the four guys so far mentioned as #1 Calvin Johnson, #2 Andre Johnson, #3 Santonio Holmes, and # 4 Ocho-stinko.

My question to you: Staying with wide-outs only, where on this list would you put Deion Branch, also a Super Bowl MVP?

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: S. Holmes: "Numbers speak... on how well those guys are NOT playing on their defe

The numbers also speak on how well those guys are not playing on their offense...although their such self absorbed jerks they'd rather whine about the OC... Next will be pointing fingers at their teamates. Looking in the mirror won't likely occur as long as Rex is their leader because Ryan is to rationalizing excuses what BB is to demanding accountability.

Jets' Brian Schottenheimer's plan questioned by Plaxico Burress, Santonio Holmes, Mason: source

 

[Rob0729]

Re: S. Holmes: "Numbers speak... on how well those guys are NOT playing on their defe

Ochocinco was the #1 in Cincinnati last year with TO being the #1A and came into Foxboro with lots of hype as the replacement for Randy Moss.

Basically I agree with you so far. I'd rank the four guys so far mentioned as #1 Calvin Johnson, #2 Andre Johnson, #3 Santonio Holmes, and # 4 Ocho-stinko.

My question to you: Staying with wide-outs only, where on this list would you put Deion Branch, also a Super Bowl MVP?

Your list is a bit irrelevant because there are a dozen or so WRs I would rank rank after Andre Johnson and before Santonio Holmes. Holmes may be the third best out of those four, but he certainly isn't the third best WR in the NFL. He is probably in the 15-20 range. There are a lot of WRs not in that list that I think are clearly better than Holmes like Welker, Steve Smith, Vincent Jackson, Greg Jennings, DeSean Jackson, etc.

I would rank Holmes higher than either Branch or Ochocinco, but neither guy is the #1 WR on this team. I think Welker is clearly better than Holmes.

As for Ochocinco being a replacement for Moss, that was purely fan driven. In reality, he was a replacement for Brandon Tate. Ochocinco is nothing like Moss.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: S. Holmes: "Numbers speak... on how well those guys are NOT playing on their defe

My reaction to your response is this: David Tyree's catch was the luckiest catch in SB history. It was bizarre. Holmes' catch was artistry.

Your point about his personal conduct is completely correct - he is a sleaze. Homes is a top, yes, elite, WR who can legitimately make comments about the Patriots defensive numbers. Numbers that through week 4 suck. Holmes is creep who I wouldn't endorse as a teacher in my daughter's Sunday school.

Patriot fans now live in a glass house, by the way. The Patriots forfeited the higher ground now that Albert Haynesworth is on the team.

As we used to say about Ted Kennedy during his skirt-chasing drunken era: "He's a son of a *****, but he's our son of a *****."

The fact that we have Haynesworth on this team does not mean character issues are irrelevant. It means that they are not knock out factors. There is a big difference between good character and the lowest accpetable level of character.
As far as Holmes, I think you either need to use a different word or study up on the meaning of elite.

Holmes is currently ranked 79th in the NFL in receiving yards, one yard behind A Hernandez who has only played 2 (not full) games.
He ranks 75th in reception, and has a pedestrain 12.6 ypc and 1 TD.
Projected over a full season, his production this year would be 52 catches for 656 yards and 4 TDs. Those are numbers more likely to put you on the bench than in the probowl.
And, those come in the 4 best passing yardage weeks in NFL history.

For his career 55 is his 2nd best reception total, and 942 is his second best yardage total.
Outside of his career year his average season is EXACTLY that same 52 catches, and about 820 yards.
Using 2010 as a yardstick that would rank him around 56thin receptions and 32nd in yards. The best statistic ranking in all of this says every team in the league (on average) has a player producing better numbers in his best category. That simply is not elite.

Holmes has the ability to make excellent plays. He does not make nearly enough excellent, or routine plays to be considered anywhere in the vicinity of elite. Frankly, its not even close.

In his career Holmes has 10 100 yard games in 76 games, this is his 7th season. That, again, is far, far from elite.

 

[Big-T]

Re: S. Holmes: "Numbers speak... on how well those guys are NOT playing on their defe

The numbers spoke for themselves today....what's that about the worst defense in the league, Santonio?

 

[PatsFan24]

Re: S. Holmes: "Numbers speak... on how well those guys are NOT playing on their defe

Bulletin board material:

Santonio Holmes (per Bedard & SMY tweet): "I think the numbers speak for themselves on how well those guys are NOT playing on their defense."

They played well enough to beat your team! LOL!

How sweet it is.

 

[The Scrizz]

Re: S. Holmes: "Numbers speak... on how well those guys are NOT playing on their defe

Hey at least he got to pretend he's an airplane. Yahoo Holmes.

:bricks:

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

Re: S. Holmes: "Numbers speak... on how well those guys are NOT playing on their defe

Sweet game holmes...you are really worth that 50 mill

 

[andrewgarrr]

Re: S. Holmes: "Numbers speak... on how well those guys are NOT playing on their defe

The fact that we have Haynesworth on this team does not mean character issues are irrelevant. It means that they are not knock out factors. There is a big difference between good character and the lowest accpetable level of character.
As far as Holmes, I think you either need to use a different word or study up on the meaning of elite.

Holmes is currently ranked 79th in the NFL in receiving yards, one yard behind A Hernandez who has only played 2 (not full) games.
He ranks 75th in reception, and has a pedestrain 12.6 ypc and 1 TD.
Projected over a full season, his production this year would be 52 catches for 656 yards and 4 TDs. Those are numbers more likely to put you on the bench than in the probowl.
And, those come in the 4 best passing yardage weeks in NFL history.

For his career 55 is his 2nd best reception total, and 942 is his second best yardage total.
Outside of his career year his average season is EXACTLY that same 52 catches, and about 820 yards.
Using 2010 as a yardstick that would rank him around 56thin receptions and 32nd in yards. The best statistic ranking in all of this says every team in the league (on average) has a player producing better numbers in his best category. That simply is not elite.

Holmes has the ability to make excellent plays. He does not make nearly enough excellent, or routine plays to be considered anywhere in the vicinity of elite. Frankly, its not even close.

In his career Holmes has 10 100 yard games in 76 games, this is his 7th season. That, again, is far, far from elite.

Brilliant. Great post.

 

[PatsFan24]

Re: S. Holmes: "Numbers speak... on how well those guys are NOT playing on their defe

I think the Jets could be down by 30 in the 4th qtr and Holmes would do that airplane thing with his arms if he scored a TD.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Re: S. Holmes: "Numbers speak... on how well those guys are NOT playing on their defe

My reaction to your response is this: David Tyree's catch was the luckiest catch in SB history. It was bizarre. Holmes' catch was artistry.

Your point about his personal conduct is completely correct - he is a sleaze. Homes is a top, yes, elite, WR who can legitimately make comments about the Patriots defensive numbers. Numbers that through week 4 suck. Holmes is creep who I wouldn't endorse as a teacher in my daughter's Sunday school.

Patriot fans now live in a glass house, by the way. The Patriots forfeited the higher ground now that Albert Haynesworth is on the team.

As we used to say about Ted Kennedy during his skirt-chasing drunken era: "He's a son of a *****, but he's our son of a *****."

I can easily think of 10 WRs that I'd rather have than Holmes, so he's definitely not elite. Calvin Johnson, Roddy White, Greg Jennings, Wes Welker, Mike Wallace, Larry Fitzgerald, Greg Jennings, Hakeem Nicks, Desean Jackson, Vincent Jackson, Andre Johnson, Steve Johnson... I could probably keep going, but I think the point is made. Every one of those guys is clearly better than Holmes.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: S. Holmes: "Numbers speak... on how well those guys are NOT playing on their defe

Who does Holmes throw under the bus this week?

BTW, would have loved to been a fly on the wall when the WRs went to Ryan and complained. "You know Coach Ryan, we aren't given enough opportunities to drop passes. Can you talk to Coach Schottenheimer?"

 

[PatsFan24]

Re: S. Holmes: "Numbers speak... on how well those guys are NOT playing on their defe

Sweet game holmes...you are really worth that 50 mill

He can buy a lot of weed with that money.

 

[Dessalines]

Re: S. Holmes: "Numbers speak... on how well those guys are NOT playing on their defe

Anyone think that this comment, as well as Scott's "Can't stop a nose bleed", had anything to do with the PATS defensive performance yesterday? I for one do think that.

 

[goheels22002]

Re: S. Holmes: "Numbers speak... on how well those guys are NOT playing on their defe

I can easily think of 10 WRs that I'd rather have than Holmes, so he's definitely not elite. Calvin Johnson, Roddy White, Greg Jennings, Wes Welker, Mike Wallace, Larry Fitzgerald, Greg Jennings, Hakeem Nicks, Desean Jackson, Vincent Jackson, Andre Johnson, Steve Johnson... I could probably keep going, but I think the point is made. Every one of those guys is clearly better than Holmes.

I do not pretend to know where "elite" begins and ends on this list, but I do think that SB MVP Santonio Holmes is more accomplished than everyone on the list except for Welker, Fitzgerald, Jennings, Calvin Johnson and Desean Jackson. Each of these guys has stepped up in big games. the other guys, not so much.

Nicks, White, Wallace, V. Jackson, A. Johnson and S. Johnson, just don't have the resume in big games that Holmes has. Would I like to see any of those guys catching throws from Brady instead of Offsides Ochocinco? You bet.

Interesting that you did not list Deion Branch, Chad Ochocinco, Mason nor Burress.

This didn't start as a list debate, but rather if Holmes has the credibility to point out how crappy the Patriots pass defense was before yesterday's game. What he said was objective, true and not trash talk.

 

[The Scrizz]

Re: S. Holmes: "Numbers speak... on how well those guys are NOT playing on their defe

I do not pretend to know where "elite" begins and ends on this list, but I do think that SB MVP Santonio Holmes is more accomplished than everyone on the list except for Welker, Fitzgerald, Jennings, Calvin Johnson and Desean Jackson. Each of these guys has stepped up in big games. the other guys, not so much.

Nicks, White, Wallace, V. Jackson, A. Johnson and S. Johnson, just don't have the resume in big games that Holmes has. Would I like to see any of those guys catching throws from Brady instead of Offsides Ochocinco? You bet.

Interesting that you did not list Deion Branch, Chad Ochocinco, Mason nor Burress.

This didn't start as a list debate, but rather if Holmes has the credibility to point out how crappy the Patriots pass defense was before yesterday's game. What he said was objective, true and not trash talk.

This has nothing to do with how good Holmes is. Being a good player doesn't mean you get to act like a jackass? I didn't hear any Pats players talking about the Jets crappy run D or their pathetic offense.

Rex making ****-tards like Holmes and Sanchez captains, despite neither having shown a shred of leadership skills, is why they are where they are. Rex wants to wish and talk his team into a SB.

Pretty much, maybe if I make Holmes a captain he'll become a leader. There's lots of times when you can choose to say something true and be an idiot or shut your stupid pie-hole and be a leader. Holmes showed which one he is.