Rumor: Patriots in the mix for Vincent Jackson

[Teenuh]

Certainly, Moss is one of the all-time great wide receivers in NFL history. But I don't think the current gap (if there is one) is as pronounced as you make it. Every year that Moss has been a Patriot, Jackon has boasted higher yards per catch. And of course, San Diego has boasted some great rushing totals in the years with Jackson as their top deep threat. Moss can burn like nobody's business, but I don't think he's that much better at stretching a defense than Jackson.

One big flaw in that argument: Antonio Gates was their main target and they had many more weapons than we do: Gates, Jackson, Chambers (until last season), etc... And of course they used to have an excellent running game which helped open up the passing. We don't have a running game, at all. We depend on our passing to win games and teams know that, which is why we need a player like moss who can stretch the defense. Then welker and hernandez can make their catches. I promise you, if we lose Moss, we'll regret it. You guys will be begging Bill to bring him back after the first few weeks.

 

[moosekill]

i think Moss has checked out. In the long run, getting VJ and lossing Moss would be an upgrade over time

As long as we can get him for a reasonable price, signed to a reasonable contract, and make sure he hasn't checked out.

 

[Teenuh]

i think Moss has checked out. In the long run, getting VJ and lossing Moss would be an upgrade over time

Yeah, about as much of an upgrade as trading Brady for Jay Cutler.

 

[moosekill]

Yeah, about as much of an upgrade as trading Brady for Jay Cutler.

I like Randy Moss, and would like to have him here next year. That being said, I think you may be over valuing him a bit.

 

[Deus Irae]

So when you said I was incorrect, what you should have said was, that may or may not be correct Moose, although most of the experts think you will be correct.

No. There is currently no CBA in place for next year. There is no contract for Mankins, and the Patriots will not have any inherent rights to him. As I said, I can't speak to what "current assumptions" your claiming.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

We need a 3 way deal, Jackson to NE, Moss to Minn and picks (or Mankins) to SD.

Minnesota only needs a 1 year WR with Rice out. They have Rice, Berrian, Harvin going forward. We need a long term stud with Moss seemingly on his way out. San Diego would get more from a team getting Jackson signed long term.

BB making a deal with Childress? igsfly:

 

[BelichickFan]

BB making a deal with Childress? igsfly:

It could be done through SD - look, I'm a grudge holder just like Bill but sometimes you do what you have to do. How many teams are on our "no trade" list ? Vikings, Jets, Browns, who else do you not even talk to ?

 

[Bonzo]

And if we lose Moss and don't get a #1 receiver what happens to our offense?

Right, this is the point.

One big flaw in that argument: Antonio Gates was their main target and they had many more weapons than we do: Gates, Jackson, Chambers (until last season), etc... And of course they used to have an excellent running game which helped open up the passing. We don't have a running game, at all. We depend on our passing to win games and teams know that, which is why we need a player like moss who can stretch the defense. Then welker and hernandez can make their catches. I promise you, if we lose Moss, we'll regret it. You guys will be begging Bill to bring him back after the first few weeks.

If you're judging by receptions, then I would consider Welker as our main target. But don't tell me that Antonio Gates is the focus of their vertical game. Last two years, Jackson has clearly been on the ascent: he led his team in reception yardage and had outstanding yards per catch (17.2 and 18.6).

Anyway, in the long term, I frankly feel that Jackson has more upside. (If they were the same age, I'd feel differently, but they're not.) But in any event, I disagree with your insistence that there is such a vast gap between the two..

 

[Teenuh]

I like Randy Moss, and would like to have him here next year. That being said, I think you may be over valuing him a bit.

No, I think you don't fully understand what he does for our offense. I'm not even talking about TDs here.

 

[Teenuh]

Well, hopefully Bill sees what i'm seeing here and does the smart thing: Pay Moss. Then we won't have to find out I'm right.

 

[moosekill]

No. There is currently no CBA in place for next year. There is no contract for Mankins, and the Patriots will not have any inherent rights to him. As I said, I can't speak to what "current assumptions" your claiming.

You know as well as I do there will be a CBA put into place next year. You also know the chance are very small that the owners will be giving away lots of the current benefits they enjoy. Therefore, most everything I have read on this board and in other places from people who have a clue, states that he will end up being Patriots property again next year, unless he shows up and signs a contract.

 

[slash83]

Not happening for a couple of reasons. SD is not going to trade him within the AFC, especially the Patriots whom they happen to play shortly. Second reason is the Pats do not need another WR, they need a HB or someone on the defense though. Do I want them to pull the trade? hell yes, is it going to happen hell no!

 

[Free_Pacman]

This guy might actually have some validity. He reported before anyone else that Revis is out for a few weeks. He broke the Recis signing too. He now says that Jackson is trying to work out a deal with Minnesota but the Patriots are not out yet.

 

[Froob]

I would think that the patriots would have to out do the vikings by quite a bit to get him. Wouldn't the chargers rather send him to the NFC than to the Pats?

 

[Deus Irae]

You know as well as I do there will be a CBA put into place next year. You also know the chance are very small that the owners will be giving away lots of the current benefits they enjoy. Therefore, most everything I have read on this board and in other places from people who have a clue, states that he will end up being Patriots property again next year, unless he shows up and signs a contract.

Actually, the rumor is that the owners don't want a CBA, which is why the players are taking the certification votes. What's been noted, time and again, is that little to no progress has been made, and that the players are taking it out on Goodell:

"What do the owners want? What's it going to take to get a deal done?" And Fujita didn't like it when he didn't get an answer.

"You're the NFL Commissioner," Fujita reportedly said. "You're here as the mouthpiece for the owners, and you can't even tell us what they want? The CBA is up in March. Don't you think you need to start giving us some answers?"

Goodell got a bad reception from some Colts | ProFootballTalk.com

Also, I've not read that people expect the YOS to remain at 5. I've read that people expect it to return to 4 or go down to 3. That would leave only the franchise tag as an option, assuming the tag option remains. Are you saying that the Patriots would Franchise Mankins? The 2010 franchise value for offensive linemen was over $10 million.

 

[ALP]

some of u guys are insane...VJ is a top 3 wr in the leage, with the likes of andre and larry....just as fast, same type of player, same capabilities

 

[TriplecHamp]

some of u guys are insane...VJ is a top 3 wr in the leage, with the likes of andre and larry....just as fast, same type of player, same capabilities

 

[JoeSixPat]

So the Patriots won't pay their good citizen left guard, but they'd shell out cash AND picks for a problem child from a conference rival?

It may be true, but I'll view it with skepticism until I see it happen.

You're probably right, but I've heard this crazy rumor that Belichick places different value on different players who play different positions.

Let's say hypothetically that while the Patriots might be willing to make an offer that makes Mankins a Top 5 paid player at his position, they're not willing to go to Top 3 let alone #1.

Instead they might hypothetically take a chance that a younger player, say, Dan Connolly for example, might be able to do a credible job at LG - maybe not as good as Mankins certainly, but not $7 million a year worse either.

Then, Belichick may place a very high value hypothetically on a major skills position like a deep WR threat, knowing that the offense is very different without that and not wanting to depend on a hypothetical player like Moss who will be 34 next season.

I'm just saying that hypothetically, Belichick may view these two positions very differently and place different values on them rather than just treating each position and player the same.

Hypothetically.

 

[Deus Irae]

You're probably right, but I've heard this crazy rumor that Belichick places different value on different players who play different positions.

Let's say hypothetically that while the Patriots might be willing to make an offer that makes Mankins a Top 5 paid player at his position, they're not willing to go to Top 3 let alone #1.

Instead they might hypothetically take a chance that a younger player, say, Dan Connolly for example, might be able to do a credible job at LG - maybe not as good as Mankins certainly, but not $7 million a year worse either.

Then, Belichick may place a very high value hypothetically on a major skills position like a deep WR threat, knowing that the offense is very different without that and not wanting to depend on a hypothetical player like Moss who will be 34 next season.

I'm just saying that hypothetically, Belichick may view these two positions very differently and place different values on them rather than just treating each position and player the same.

Hypothetically.

Indeed, but I didn't claim otherwise, either hypothetically or actually. I merely some reasoning for my skepticism towards the report. To repeat what I said, it may be true, but I'll view it with skepticism until I see it happen.

 

[ausbacker]

This x134, we need another receiver long term. The draft looks deep at receiver this year but nothing like a proven young talent to come in and help the team this year as well.

he is a beast!!! I like this a lot!!!


Throw Mankins into the deal to sweeten it???

LOL, same exact reaction i had, haha

Whilst I don't deny there's more pressing needs than receiver at the Patriots, we're also dependent upon the development of Brandon Tate, Julian Edleman and Price. I have long term hope that this unit can grow together, but right now it's Moss, Welker and the TE's who are performing. Crumpler, Hernandez and Gronkowski look to be an exciting outfit and there's question marks over our running game with Taylor, Morris, Faulk and Green-Ellis.

To be the best we need to measure ourself against the best. Although talented, that unit doesn't scream out Saints offense to me. If we sign Vincent Jackson, pipedream or not that gives the Patriots 3 bona fide number 1 receivers in Moss, Welker and Jackson. Suddenly, Tate and Edleman are the fourth receiver depending on the tight end/running back sets we choose to employ.

The Patriots defense need help, help that a high powered offense can provide and has provided in the past. If we can't get the personnel we want on defense or want to absorb some growing pains on a young outfit, then improve the offense and hope some of the 2007 fireworks reignite.

The difference between the 2007 O and the 2010 O is that 2007 had more flexibility in what you could so with Moss, Welker, Stallworth & Gaffney. It makes you wonder if BB made a mistake in letting Gaffney go.