Ron Brace

[randomk1]

JJ Watts
6'6
290
40- 4.84
Bench - 34 Reps
Vertical - 37.0
Broad - 120.0
3 Cone - 6.88
20 Shuffle - 4.21

Jake Bequette
6'5
274
40 - 4.82
Bench - 32 reps
Vertical - 34.0
Broad - 9.5
Shuffle - 4.07
3 Cone - 6.90

Looks extremely close too me.

The reason I say LDE is because in Wade Phillips Hybrid 3-4 that is where Watts is utilized.

Honestly most of your response are not really based on true research into potential use of the players but rather things heard on ESPN and NESN. You then combine that with the defense we has 6 years ago when we ran a straight up 3-4. I joined to this forum recently to hear from people who are willing to actually look at our personal and find out ways BB plans to utilize it in unique ways.

I can absolutely assure you that BB is not planning on recreating the defense he had back then. The size and style of players he drafted is for something new and inventive.

I am by no means trying to be argumentative but you shot down my suggestion based on a 16lb weight difference. Which could be made up easily without sacrificing and speed or quickness. 300+ 3-4 Ends are not the future of the NFL. Aaron Smith the best in the business is 6'4 285.. You need to see the future buddy.

BB did not draft Jones and Bequette both to play the same position.

Bequette at 3-4 DE? No way. He doesn't have the size and just because his combine numbers compare to Watt(who is bigger,stronger and more athletic) doesn't mean that will translate onto the field.

 

[patfanken]

The reported demise of Ron Brace has been greatly exaggerated. After a more than underwhelming rookie year, every time Brace has been healthy he has played. He has an important role to fill as a back up NT and run stopping DE/DT in that non-stop DL rotation.

His lack luster first year labelled him. Since then he's played better, but can't stay on the field. Hopefully he'll stay on the field this season and finally retire Gerard Warren.

 

[JMarr]

Yes, it's going to be a long summer. None of us know what the full story on Brace is. Certainly looks like he's a bust, but when you factor in injuries, maturity issues, learning the system (yes I know he's had 3 years), and perhaps most importantly conditioning, there's no way you can definitively say he's a bust until he's actually cut.

I'm going to be optimistic and hope that everything comes together for him this year and Belichick can get some good production out of him.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Yes, it's going to be a long summer. None of us know what the full story on Brace is. Certainly looks like he's a bust, but when you factor in injuries, maturity issues, learning the system (yes I know he's had 3 years), and perhaps most importantly conditioning, there's no way you can definitively say he's a bust until he's actually cut.

I'm going to be optimistic and hope that everything comes together for him this year and Belichick can get some good production out of him.

The full story is that in 3 years Brace has been a marginal contributor. Year 1 he was a rook. Year 2 he started to play about 20% of the snaps that came on mostly running downs and last year was passed by Love and quicker players. As you highlight, injuries and conditioning have been a factor but they have not been THE factor.

In theory because of his perceived talent level and draft status he should be playing ahead of Love but he isn't.

If he shows something in camp, BB will keep him. If he doesn't hes gone.

 

[Ring 6]

The reported demise of Ron Brace has been greatly exaggerated. After a more than underwhelming rookie year, every time Brace has been healthy he has played. He has an important role to fill as a back up NT and run stopping DE/DT in that non-stop DL rotation.

His lack luster first year labelled him. Since then he's played better, but can't stay on the field. Hopefully he'll stay on the field this season and finally retire Gerard Warren.

I bought that up until his invisible 2011

 

[Ring 6]

Ok I over exaggerated the Favre hit but I still don't think Pryor is as bad as you say. Although I don't have much proof of that because, as you've pointed out, he's barely ever on the field. I'll just say if Pryor is healthy this year I think you'll be pleasantly surprised by his interior rushing ability.

In all fairness I have heard that for 3 years, and when he made it to the field I didn't see anything I was pleasantly surprised with, unless I look at it from the perspective of having no expectations at all, and if he makes any plays at all I should be pleasantly surprised.
Yes he is capable of making plays in the NFL. No, I havent seen him do it often enough to consider him a player with any real value.

 

[Ring 6]

JJ Watts
6'6
290
40- 4.84
Bench - 34 Reps
Vertical - 37.0
Broad - 120.0
3 Cone - 6.88
20 Shuffle - 4.21

Jake Bequette
6'5
274
40 - 4.82
Bench - 32 reps
Vertical - 34.0
Broad - 9.5
Shuffle - 4.07
3 Cone - 6.90

Looks extremely close too me.

The reason I say LDE is because in Wade Phillips Hybrid 3-4 that is where Watts is utilized.

Honestly most of your response are not really based on true research into potential use of the players but rather things heard on ESPN and NESN. You then combine that with the defense we has 6 years ago when we ran a straight up 3-4. I joined to this forum recently to hear from people who are willing to actually look at our personal and find out ways BB plans to utilize it in unique ways.

I can absolutely assure you that BB is not planning on recreating the defense he had back then. The size and style of players he drafted is for something new and inventive.

I am by no means trying to be argumentative but you shot down my suggestion based on a 16lb weight difference. Which could be made up easily without sacrificing and speed or quickness. 300+ 3-4 Ends are not the future of the NFL. Aaron Smith the best in the business is 6'4 285.. You need to see the future buddy.

BB did not draft Jones and Bequette both to play the same position.

OK, then if you are not interested in hearing my opinion and only looking for someone to agree with an idea that I don't see any basis in, then perhaps you should discuss this with someone else.
You seem to be perturbed that I have an opinion.

 

[patsfaninpa]

No chance. Way, way to light to play 34 DE, or LDE in the 43.
He is an OLB in the 34.
Deaderick and Fanene are the guys you are mssing.

Rob Ninkovich and Mark Anderson played de in our 4-2-5.That's one of the reasons the Giants beat us. Bequette is not too light to play LDE in that package. Also, on 3RD and 10+ which we suck at. Bequette and Carter/Jones can play de in a 3-2-6 dime package. Blitz Hightower from the inside and you have pretty good flexibility.

 

[Marqui]

In all fairness I have heard that for 3 years, and when he made it to the field I didn't see anything I was pleasantly surprised with, unless I look at it from the perspective of having no expectations at all, and if he makes any plays at all I should be pleasantly surprised.
Yes he is capable of making plays in the NFL. No, I havent seen him do it often enough to consider him a player with any real value.

Well isn't that the perspective we should be having considering we're talking about a player drafted in the 6th round? To me if a low round guy like Pryor does something like this once or twice a game or so, I think that's acceptable. Pryor will never be a probowler but he can be a decent rotational subpackage DT.

 

[BlueThunder]

The pieces are:

LDE Deaderick, Brace, Warren
NT Wilfork, Love
RDE Fanene, Pryor
LOLB Hightower, Ninkovich, Cunnignham
LILB Spikes, Carpenter
RILB Mayo, Fletcher
ROLB Jones, Scott, Bequette

We have all the piece and 5 of the 7 are solid and deep.
The other 2 have JAGs that won't kill us but adding 1 or 2 starting caliber DEs really solidifies this.

BTW, its no different in a 43, because DE.NT,DE becomes LDE,DT,DT with the exact same guys.

I don't think all these make the roster. That lineup only leaves 8 spots for DB which is too thin. One or two of these guys are on the bubble or go PUP/IR if not cut. Don't think Bequette would make it to the PS without being claimed.

 

[patsfaninpa]

I don't think all these make the roster. That lineup only leaves 8 spots for DB which is too thin. One or two of these guys are on the bubble or go PUP/IR if not cut. Don't think Bequette would make it to the PS without being claimed.

I have 15 spots for the front 7 and 10 defensive backs. My front 7 right now would be;

6 Fatties - Wilfork, Deaderick, Love, Fanene, Pryor and G. Warren.
6 old/de's - A. Carter(think we sign him), Ninkovich, C. Jones, D. Hightower, J. Bequette and
one of Scott/Cunningham/M.Carter
3 ILB's - Mayo , Spikes and Fletcher. Hightower can play so only need 3.

Would love to get another def. lineman. Two gap/dt type. Tough to count on Pryor given his injury history. I think we had a great draft for pass rushers and olb. I think Hightower can play strongside in a 3-4 or 4-3.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I don't think all these make the roster. That lineup only leaves 8 spots for DB which is too thin. One or two of these guys are on the bubble or go PUP/IR if not cut. Don't think Bequette would make it to the PS without being claimed.

Agree that 9-10 DBs will be on the roster.

But just trying to make sense of it all....

Deaderick, Wilfork, Love and Fanene and in. DT, DE, sub package whatever.
Pryor, Warren and Brace are bubble. Maybe keep 1 or 2 of 3.

Bequette, Jones and Ninkovich and in. OLB, DE in sub whatever.
Cunnignham is bubble foe sure.

Spikes, Hightower, Mayo, and are in.
Fletcher, Carpenter, Scott are bubble with keeping 1 or 2 of 3.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Agree that 9-10 DBs will be on the roster.

But just trying to make sense of it all....

Deaderick, Wilfork, Love and Fanene and in. DT, DE, sub package whatever.
Pryor, Warren and Brace are bubble. Maybe keep 1 or 2 of 3.

Bequette, Jones and Ninkovich and in. OLB, DE in sub whatever.
Cunnignham is bubble foe sure.

Spikes, Hightower, Mayo, and are in.
Fletcher, Carpenter, Scott are bubble with keeping 1 or 2 of 3.

I would be surprised to see either one of Carpenter or Cunningham make the final roster.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I would be surprised to see either one of Carpenter or Cunningham make the final roster.

I agree. I'd like to think that Scott and Fletcher would make the roster but they are not a shoo-ins

 

[BradyFTW!]

I agree. I'd like to think that Scott and Fletcher would make the roster but they are not a shoo-ins

Agreed, pretty much. I could also potentially see Pryor or Brace not making the final roster- really depends on who other teams cut and where BB decides he wants the most depth, but there are quite a few guys on that list who are on the bubble, to say the least.

Out of all of the players cited, Fletcher is my favorite- I think that he could be a pretty good, versatile NFL player. Also helps that the injury that kept him out for so much of last year was a flukish thing that shouldn't happen again. Much better than knee, foot, back, hip, etc.

I also wasn't ready to give up on Cunningham yet, but between Jones, Scott, and Bequette, it seems like Belichick is ready to move on from him.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Agreed, pretty much. I could also potentially see Pryor or Brace not making the final roster- really depends on who other teams cut and where BB decides he wants the most depth, but there are quite a few guys on that list who are on the bubble, to say the least.

I like Pryor but the simple fact is that he hasn't stayed healthy. Hes been ok when hes played but hes not an impact player per se. IE a healthy Mike Wright.

Brace...who knows.

 

[BradyFTW!]

JJ Watts
6'6
290
40- 4.84
Bench - 34 Reps
Vertical - 37.0
Broad - 120.0
3 Cone - 6.88
20 Shuffle - 4.21

Jake Bequette
6'5
274
40 - 4.82
Bench - 32 reps
Vertical - 34.0
Broad - 9.5
Shuffle - 4.07
3 Cone - 6.90

Looks extremely close too me.

The reason I say LDE is because in Wade Phillips Hybrid 3-4 that is where Watts is utilized.

Honestly most of your response are not really based on true research into potential use of the players but rather things heard on ESPN and NESN. You then combine that with the defense we has 6 years ago when we ran a straight up 3-4. I joined to this forum recently to hear from people who are willing to actually look at our personal and find out ways BB plans to utilize it in unique ways.

I can absolutely assure you that BB is not planning on recreating the defense he had back then. The size and style of players he drafted is for something new and inventive.

I am by no means trying to be argumentative but you shot down my suggestion based on a 16lb weight difference. Which could be made up easily without sacrificing and speed or quickness. 300+ 3-4 Ends are not the future of the NFL. Aaron Smith the best in the business is 6'4 285.. You need to see the future buddy.

BB did not draft Jones and Bequette both to play the same position.

Philosophically, Belichick's 3-4 is radically different from Wade Phillips'. Phillips places a much higher value on 1-gap, penetrating defensive ends, and is willing to sacrifice a lot of contain responsibility to get that. For what Belichick expects of the DEs in the Patriots' standard 3-4, Bequette would get pretty much dominated. He is not a 2-gap defensive end in the 3-4, and the only way to change that, potentially, would be for him to put on at least 35 pounds.

In a 2-gap 3-4, Bequette is an OLB, you can cite as many 1-gap DEs as you want, but that's nearly as irrelevant as citing how Dwight Freeney is a 4-3 DE at 268. Completely different responsibilities, one has nothing to do with the other. The only way that Bequette is a DE in the 3-4 is if Belichick has adopted a fairly radical shift in philosophy: a possibility, sure, but I wouldn't bet on it.

 

[BradyFTW!]

I like Pryor but the simple fact is that he hasn't stayed healthy. Hes been ok when hes played but hes not an impact player per se. IE a healthy Mike Wright.

Brace...who knows.

TBH, I'm not even 100% sold on the "okay when he's played" part. At best, even when healthy I think that he's a replacement-level interior pass rush specialist. Even as that, he's outperformed his draft status, and he has some value simply for knowing the system, but I'll take a guy who doesn't know the system yet but can stay on the field any day.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

TBH, I'm not even 100% sold on the "okay when he's played" part. At best, even when healthy I think that he's a replacement-level interior pass rush specialist. Even as that, he's outperformed his draft status, and he has some value simply for knowing the system, but I'll take a guy who doesn't know the system yet but can stay on the field any day.

Pryor is going to have to have a great camp to stick, same with Brace.

I don't know how badly Brace wants to succeed, but I think if he was a distraction BB would have blown him out years ago.

 

[BBass]

Philosophically, Belichick's 3-4 is radically different from Wade Phillips'. Phillips places a much higher value on 1-gap, penetrating defensive ends, and is willing to sacrifice a lot of contain responsibility to get that. For what Belichick expects of the DEs in the Patriots' standard 3-4, Bequette would get pretty much dominated. He is not a 2-gap defensive end in the 3-4, and the only way to change that, potentially, would be for him to put on at least 35 pounds.

In a 2-gap 3-4, Bequette is an OLB, you can cite as many 1-gap DEs as you want, but that's nearly as irrelevant as citing how Dwight Freeney is a 4-3 DE at 268. Completely different responsibilities, one has nothing to do with the other. The only way that Bequette is a DE in the 3-4 is if Belichick has adopted a fairly radical shift in philosophy: a possibility, sure, but I wouldn't bet on it.

Realistically the nickel is our base defense now and I do feel Bequette has the size and skill set to play LDE in our 4 man and 3 man.

Everyone talks about the 3-4 BB used back in 07-08, my real question is if that was the defense BB wanted to run why did he basically blow it up right after the super bowl loss to the Gaints.

If we wanted players like Richard Seymor and Ty Warren we would of kept them or drafted similar players in the last 6 years. BB used a 4-3 and then shift to a 3-4 to utilize Wilfolk, Seymor and Warren best. This season we will actually see a defense that BB built from the ground up. It's going to be something innovative and unique.

Bequette was not brought in to back up Jones and Hightower. Spikes and Mayo will not be ridding the pine and Nink was arguably our best defensive player behind Wilfolk last year.

Bequette will be playing LDE and standing up a LOLB in a 2-4 front. You will see Deaderick on short yardage and other run situations but in the pass happy NFL you will see Bequette 65% + of the time in that position

If somebody can suggest any reason other then he doesn't weigh enough or he is Ty Warren or Richard Seymor I would love to hear it but if you watching game film of our 2005 defense and making a mock draft based on that you need to stop and read the pass stats last season across the league.