Report: Patriots looked into trade for Case Keenum

[captain stone]

You may be right on Ferentz being elevated, but Zappe's on the minimum.

Talk about having those payouts ass-backwards...

 

[patfanken]

And you know this, how

Mostly because he WASN'T traded. And just what WERE the offers that, again, weren't conjecture

Again, how do you know? Did you have convos with Bill?

Again, my conversations with Bill are PRIVATE. But I have the evidence right at hand. #1 He wasn't traded before the draft because and #2 because he was traded at the deadline. Please show me a deal that was offered for a 1st prior to the draft. You know you can always make one up..... I'll believe you. So will everyone else.

You do know that Bill called San Fran, right? SF didn't call Bill.

Really? You know this HOW?????. I've now looked through google on 3 iterations of the search "the logistics of the JG trade to the niners 2017 and not ONE of them say who "started up the conversation"

You are accusing me of exactly what you are doing. I never said they were offered a #1. I just asked a simple question of Jimmy's worth prior to the draft as opposed to midnight of the trade deadline. I think you know the answer but I know you will keep yacking that I am saying that I am not to try to fit your presupposed narrative

Don't presuppose answers like you only have the RIGHT ones. What we do know is that NO one is on record offering a #1 for JG. What we DO know is that JG was of more value to the Pats than he was compared to what they were offered at the draft.

And remember this too. Brady was entering his year 40 season, and up until that time the number of QB's who where 40 AND successful were ZERO at that time. NO one knew at that point just how much of an outlier Brady was. But Brady beat out JG again, and had 8 good games to prove he hadn't lost it. Also he was coming off a Superbowl, that, heroic as it was, wasn't Brady's best 3.6 quarters. And Edleman's spectacular catch started out as a disaster of a throw. The point being was there were STILL issues that needed to be resolved before JG was traded for something as low as 2nd or 3rd.

In the end Brady left BB with no doubt who was the best QB in camp and at the start of the season. And since JG wasn't coming back getting which at the time was a high 2nd was a very good deal for someone who at that point was just a good looking prospect of limited experience.

How about keep the GOAT QB instead who just delivered the org its 6th ring. Just a thought.

Smug answer that has no meat. Again you definitely COULD have signed Brady for the $25MM/ and he could have played on a thread bar cap strapped team with no offense and little defense, about like what you had in 2000. Yeah, that is what we all wanted to see. THAT would be doing the GOAT a service. Thanks for 20 years of service, but we ran out of gas for your swan song. Yeah, I want YOU building our teams. INSTEAD we axed the franchise tag and wished him best of luck to cherry pick a great offense for himself, even thru in Gronk, no charge. No we REALLY screwed Tommy.

Good heavens. So throw away an entire season, the most important in Mac's development while he waited for Bob? You really believe this?

No they don't. Just when things don't turn out like you hoped.. Who knows, maybe the errors and screw ups Mac made last season will be just adversity that will make him more mature and a better QB long term.

How about just go and spend on a quality OC for the long term instead of literally throwing away a season and a critical year of Mac's development.

Because the guy you WANT long term and wants to be here, just wasn't available in 2022 and you have to figure out something short term. No one worth his salt will come under those conditions so you take a shot on guys you have in house and hope for the best. It isn't likely going to be a championship year anyway.. You hope for at least some progression, and get the opposite. Now you have the guy you wanted all along and a long term succession plan in place.

What? The whole point of my posts were how Bill has mishandled the QB position since 2017. Please try to keep up.

And my point was to show he HASN'T. But you think Bill sucks as a coach and GM and all the Pats 20 years of UNPARALLELLED success was done by others.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Really? You know this HOW?????. I've now looked through google on 3 iterations of the search "the logistics of the JG trade to the niners 2017 and not ONE of them say who "started up the conversation"

The one part of this that makes sense is that he would've had to talk to SF. After all, he would need a QB2 and Hoyer was the best/only plausible option at that point.

OTOH, as I've noted before, part of the reason they only got a 2 from SF was that BB convinced them to release Hoyer and eat $10M in salary cap. (Moreover, trading for Hoyer would've likely cost them a comp pick, as that happened to them a few years before with Isaac Sopoaga.)

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

If Mac goes down our backup is a guy who has never played in an NFL game and just came to our team last week.

Or maybe bill feels with the toughest schedule we are screwed either way if Mac goes down

Hoyer will be elevated from the practice squad to backup Mac. That is why we did not sign a veteran backup QB. Maybe you misunderstood?

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

A player can be elevated (I think) 3 times, but once he's sent back to the squad he is unprotected.

I think two players can be elevated and demoted without being exposed to waivers. I Googled it too and the article was written in August 2023.

The NFL’s current CBA allows for up to two players in a given game week to be promoted to the active roster without giving the players a normal player contract. Normally, a player must be removed from the 53-man roster to make room for a practice squad promotion. Then, if the promoted player is sent back down to the practice squad, he has to clear waivers. That is not the case with these two players.

And I think only one player can be elevated thrice. Again I Googled.

Also, a single player can be activated from the practice squad thrice a season. If a team wants to activate that same player a fourth time, they must be added to the active roster.

Everything you need to know about NFL practice squad rules

Each year, NFL teams assemble a group of players on its practice squad to add more depth to their rosters.

www.google.com

 

[TommyD4207]

You are accusing me of exactly what you are doing. I never said they were offered a #1. I just asked a simple question of Jimmy's worth prior to the draft as opposed to midnight of the trade deadline. I think you know the answer but I know you will keep yacking that I am saying that I am not to try to fit your presupposed narrative.

I am *begging* you to look up and see what players actually get in compensation when it comes to draft picks. Your ideas of what players actually get in draft compensation is incredibly warped. A lot of times, letting a player go and getting a 3rd rounder in compensation is *better* than what you could get for a draft pick. For example, arguably, you could have done this with Steph Gilmore but (a) Belichick did the guy a solid and (b) it turns out he wouldn't have gotten a 3rd for FA compensation, due to the nothing contract he signed (because he's washed).

 

[TommyD4207]

Really? You know this HOW?????. I've now looked through google on 3 iterations of the search "the logistics of the JG trade to the niners 2017 and not ONE of them say who "started up the conversation"

We actually *do* know the answer to this, and she actually has it completely backwards.

JOHN LYNCH called first, asking about Garoppolo, and Belichick told him no. He then asked about *Brady*, and Belichick laughed at him, but eventually as the season went on, he went back to SF about Garoppolo.

John Lynch is well-covered on this, and said it to many media outlets years later. This is *KNOWN*. It is the EXACT OPPOSITE of what she said.

John Lynch admits 49ers discussed pursuing Tom Brady

Jimmy Garoppolo 1, Tom Brady 1.

www.nbcsports.com

John Lynch confirms he asked Bill Belichick about a trade for Tom Brady

John Lynch admitted to asking Bill Belichick if he’d trade Tom Brady to the 49ers, and it went about as well as you’d think.

patriotswire.usatoday.com

During his appearance on the “Pardon My Take” podcast, Lynch confirmed Jay Glazer’s 2017 report that he actually did inquire about Brady before being laughed off the other end of the phone by Bill Belichick.

Via “Pardon My Take”:

PMT: Did you ask for Tom Brady?
Lynch: I’m not supposed to talk about that.
[laughter]
Lynch: Yeah, we were calling about Jimmy, and we did have that conversation and got quickly rebuffed. I figured, ‘You know, what the heck, you’ve got to take your shot, right? You can’t score if you don’t shoot.’ So I had to summon up the courage — and yeah, Bill laughed at me. He basically hung up on me, but hey, I took my shot.

 

[Family]

I think two players can be elevated and demoted without being exposed to waivers. I Googled it too and the article was written in August 2023.

That's true, but once back on the squad he's a FA, so that rule mostly protects the player from being forced to play where he doesn't want to go.

The Patriots have no protection, other than there's one less avenue for the player to leave the team. Also, it's easier to move pieces.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

That's true, but once back on the squad he's a FA, so that rule mostly protects the player from being forced to play where he doesn't want to go.

The Patriots have no protection, other than there's one less avenue for the player to leave.

Yes but a team can protect up to four players on the practice squad. Also the Pats can elevate two players per week without exposing them to waivers. A player can be elevated up to three times but after that the player has to go through waivers to get back to the practice squad. So Zappe can be protected and be active on the 53 for the first three games.

 

[Family]

Yes but a team can protect up to four players on the practice squad.

I must have missed this. Didn't see that on your link. Could you please provide one?

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I must have missed this. Didn't see that on your link. Could you please provide one?

Four players can be protected each week, so they can’t be signed by another team off their practice squad.

NFL practice squad, explained: Rules, pay, roster limit, and more

Everything you need to know about your team’s second team.

www.google.com

 

[rkarp1]

I don't know if it was as much of a "regression" as his flaws as a limited QB being exposed for everyone to see. This is the real Zappe, it's who he always was. Like I said earlier this year if he somehow become our starter then something went terribly wrong at the QB position.

I think your statement has a lot of merit.
Zappe with a new OC calling schemes that Zappe really is not yet comfortable with.
Setting protection, calling the correct play at the LOS, quick progressions, all what BOB wants to do, but not really part of Zappe's strengths.
we saw last season the team water down play calls for Zappe, keeping it simple play action and throw. against teams with out film to review, it could work for a short stretch. but a little longer term, the offense will struggle.
the staff saw pretty quickly the limitations. all summer, it was evident. the fact that they were willing to lose him, speaks volumes.

 

[Family]

Four players can be protected each week, so they can’t be signed by another team off their practice squad.

NFL practice squad, explained: Rules, pay, roster limit, and more

Everything you need to know about your team’s second team.

www.google.com

I think it’s 3 or 4 times and he can be protected on the practice squad.

I missed this. So what's the difference between being on the roster and protected on the practice squad?

Apologies to Mike.

 

[mike_usagisan]

I missed this. So what's the difference between being on the roster and protected on the practice squad?

Apologies to Mike.

No worries. I assumed you were right!

 

[amfootball]

I am *begging* you to look up and see what players actually get in compensation when it comes to draft picks. Your ideas of what players actually get in draft compensation is incredibly warped. A lot of times, letting a player go and getting a 3rd rounder in compensation is *better* than what you could get for a draft pick. For example, arguably, you could have done this with Steph Gilmore but (a) Belichick did the guy a solid and (b) it turns out he wouldn't have gotten a 3rd for FA compensation, due to the nothing contract he signed (because he's washed).

I do not need to look up anything. Trading a player prior to the draft vs midnight of the trade deadline is not going to net you the best value. I mean that's football 101.

 

[Wozzy]

Bill has completely mismanaged the QB position since 2017 when he didn't trade Jimmy in March. It has been a clown show ever since ...

This ^ is simply wrong.

They tried to trade Jimmy that offseason, Jimmy was available in trade for months, they announced a first round pick was the compensation they were looking for.

Nobody offered more than what they received at the trade deadline. Nobody wanted to give more for a QB who played one and a half games and got hurt. They decided to pull him off the market a week before the draft and wait to see if someone was desperate at the trade deadline, nobody was so they traded him for the best available offer.

They had Brady in 2017 and beyond... how is that mismanaged?

 

[amfootball]

This ^ is simply wrong.

They tried to trade Jimmy that offseason, Jimmy was available in trade for months, they announced a first round pick was the compensation they were looking for.

Nobody offered more than what they received at the trade deadline. Nobody wanted to give more for a QB who played one and a half games and got hurt. They decided to pull him off the market a week before the draft and wait to see if someone was desperate at the trade deadline, nobody was so they traded him for the best available offer.

They had Brady in 2017 and beyond... how is that mismanaged?

Did you just dream up that scenario or do you actually have reports to back up any of that conjecture?

Because the beat reporter from Cleveland reported repeatedly that the Browns were willing to offer a #1 for Jimmy that entire offseason.

Cleveland Writer Suggests Browns Consider Trading No. 1 Pick For Jimmy Garoppolo - NESN.com

The New England Patriots could ask the Cleveland Browns for the No. 12 pick in the 2017 NFL Draft in a trade for quarterback Jimmy Garoppolo … or perhaps they could aim even higher? The Browns own the No. 1 and No. 12 overall picks, and some, including NFL Network draft analyst Mike Mayock, have […]

nesn.com

Bill Belichick reportedly didn't let the Browns anywhere near Jimmy Garoppolo, and it may have cost the Patriots

The Patriots reportedly could have ended up with the fourth pick in the draft if they had traded Jimmy Garoppolo to the Browns.

www.businessinsider.com

 

[Wozzy]

Did you just dream up that scenario or do you actually have reports to back up any of that conjecture?

Because the beat reporter from Cleveland reported repeatedly that the Browns were willing to offer a #1 for Jimmy that entire offseason.

If you make me provide proof, you're going to look silly. Jimmy was on the open market and available for trade months prior to the draft that season. It was announced by Schefter, Lombardi and Curran that the Pats were looking for a first and a 4th round pick.... nobody made that offer.

What Sashi Brown the fired GM from Cleveland "would" have done after getting canned isn't worth a wet fart in a brown paper bag on a rainy day. He got fired because he traded away the draft pick that became Deshaun Watson and drafted Deshone Kizer instead, then he never made a golden offer for JimmyG and settled for AJ McCarron instead... the only problem with trading for McCarron is Sashi literally forgot to file the paperwork so the trade fell through. He was an incompetent boob.

 

[amfootball]

If you make me provide proof, you're going to look silly.

No. You look silly already ...

 

[Wozzy]

No. You look silly already ...

Okay, you asked for it...

According to the NFL's own website: Dec. 31 - Earliest permissible date for clubs to renegotiate or extend the rookie contract of a drafted rookie who was selected in any round of the 2016 NFL Draft. Any permissible renegotiated or extended player contract will not be considered a rookie contract, and will not be subject to the rules that limit rookie contracts.

Schefter, Lombardi and Curren all say Jimmy G is available for trade if the offer starts with a 1st and 4th round pick at the end of December, the exact moment NFL teams can start negotiations with a rookie at the end of their deal.

profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/12/10/former-browns-patriots-exec-sees-a-garoppolo-trade-to-cleveland/

www.nbcsports.com/boston/video/curran-patriots-need-be-bowled-over-offer-trade-garoppolo

Multiple reporters all reporting the same thing was the Patriots putting Jimmy on the market. And all we talked about on this forum and other Patriot's forum for the next four months was the large pot of gold we would receive.

It wasn't until a week before the draft that Schefter announced the Pats were pulling Jimmy from the market. So that was four months for somebody to bring The Godfather-sized offer for Jimmy... they never received any big offer... it never happened.

The one team that had everything to give (Cleveland) was told by Jimmy’s agent he wasn’t going there.

"One factor ESPN’s Chris Mortensen has reported is that Garoppolo’s agent, Don Yee, made it clear Garoppolo would not sign a long-term contract with the Browns."

www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/265453/did-jimmy-garoppolo-affect-browns-front-office-change

Didn’t really matter either way because all they offered was a 2nd and change... or exactly what they offered for AJ McCarron before Sashi Brown forgot to file the paperwork.



What Sashi Brown would have done afterwards isn't worth ****, what he didn't do (draft Deshaun Watson, pay to get Jimmy) is what got him fired.

Thanks for playing.