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Reminders about the 2008 cap

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Miguel, Nov 22, 2007.

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  1. Miguel

    Miguel Patriots Salary Cap Guru PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    While I have this in bold on my future cap hits page
    "Please note that these figures do NOT include any escalators or incentives that players may reach"

    I continue to see posts about the Patriots 2008 cap picture that do not mention the fact that each and every year there are
    1.) Patriot players who reach NTLBE incentives. Example - Dillon in 2004. Moss in 2007
    2.) Patriots players who reach salary escalator clauses. Example - Wilson's 2007 salary
    3.) that are ERFAs and RFA who have to be tendered an offer. In 2008 Alexander, Eckel, and Gemara Williams will be ERFAs and Wright will be an RFA.

    It has been reported that the following players have escalator clauses in their contracts which may increase their 2008 salary.
    Wilfork - as much as $4 million
    Watson - as much as $2.4 million
    Hobbs - maximum escalator amount unknown
    Kaczur - maximum escalator amount unknown
    Hochstein - as much as $800,000
    Green - maximum escalator amount unknown

    I am not sure about this but Vrabel may also have escalator clause in his contract.

    Moss is well on his way to earning $2 million in NTLBE incentives. That 2 million has to be accounted for. Given the Patriots' success offensively and defensively it seems reasonable to presume that other players will also have reached their NTLBE incentives.

    For 2008, the RFA tender levels will be --

    $927,000 = original draft pick compensation (but a second-rounder if the player was a first-round pick)
    $1.417 million = second-round pick
    $2.017 million = first-round pick
    $2.562 million = first- and third-round picks

    Whatever the amount of the RFA tender offer to Wright is it needs to be accounted when one talks about the Patriots 2008 salary cap picture.
  2. MrBigglesWorth

    MrBigglesWorth Rookie

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    does this basically mean they are coming close or over the cap?
  3. Miguel

    Miguel Patriots Salary Cap Guru PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    Basically, it seems safe to presume that after the reached NTLBE incentives and escalator clauses are factored in the Patriots will be a great deal closer to the 2008 cap limit than they are now.

    Basically, what I am trying to say that my numbers are a snapshot in time. What is true now may not and will not be true in late February/early March.
  4. patsfaninpa

    patsfaninpa Rookie

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    Personnel dept. has done such a tremendous job. There's star quality and depth everywhere on this team. Only a matter of time until we lose some good players. That's the way it is in the NFL. Let's enjoy this historic roll and fret about who's leaving after our Parade Feb 6th.
  5. Miguel

    Miguel Patriots Salary Cap Guru PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    If the Patriots front office can build a great team in 2007 while also focusing on the future, I see no reason why their fans can not also enjoy the present while discussing the future.
  6. patsfaninpa

    patsfaninpa Rookie

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    Didn't mean we couldn't talk about it Miguel. Just hate to speculate whom might be leaving.
  7. Fencer

    Fencer Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    Let's zoom straight to the conclusion.

    I think the biggest question marks as to what the Pats can or can't afford are:

    Moss
    Samuel
    A hypothetical Very High Draft Pick
    Stallworth

    All other variables seem smaller by comparison.

    Assuming that enough is otherwise budgeted for depth and the middle class -- e.g., Gay and Wright stay with non-trivial bumps, but Wilson goes -- and that the Patriots wind up using, say, the #5 overall pick, how much money do you estimate will be left over for Moss, Samuel or a replacement for him, and Stallworth?

    Before any cap money is pushed via restructuring to future years, of course ...
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2007
  8. spacecrime

    spacecrime Rookie

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    There is something to be said for ignoring the future, but some of us like to see the big picture. As one who does look at the Pats situation present and future, I would hate for the providing of news and info to be discouraged because some folks can't enjoy the present if they consider the future.

    Let's let those who want to discuss it, go ahead and discuss it, and those who don't, simply move on to another thread. That way everyone should be happy. At least I will be :D
  9. The Predator

    The Predator Rookie

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    No, No, No Miguel all this is not true. We are using our first round pick to sign McFadden to a $64 million dollar deal just like Calvin Johnson's last year, sign Moss for 3-4 years at $30 million, sign Asante at $40 million, keep Stallworth on the books, extend Wilfork, and sign all our draft picks.

    We play fantasy football here in NE, and not worry abou tthe cap.:rolleyes:
  10. Urgent

    Urgent Rookie

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    #24 Jersey

    At the same time, how much money will the Patriots roll into next year from this year's cap?

    Miguel has the Pats around $6mm+ under the cap. $5mm or so could be pushed into next year, as they did last year (when this year was last year's next year, as Bugs might say).

    Is that stuff reported?

    If they bump $5mm into next year, that's also a non-trivial impact, and would cover some of those NLTBE increases.

    (By the way, isn't it Not Likely To Be Earned, not NTLBE? Or am I mis-acronymizing?)
  11. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Serious question, Miguel--couldn't the Pats shave about $3M off next year's hit for Stallworth (if they decide to keep him) by converting his roster bonus to a signing bonus?
  12. patsfan209

    patsfan209 Rookie

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    I believe the general consensus, should the team end the season with the Lombardi, that these players may retire:

    Kyle Brady
    Troy Brown
    Tedy Bruschi
    Rodney Harrison
    Junior Seau

    If lets say all five of them retired, would that free up cap space or it doesn't make much difference?

    BTW I could've sworn that had the Pats not lost the AFFCG last year and beat Chicago, both Rodney and Tedy (and likely Junior too) would be enjoying life after football right now.
  13. The Predator

    The Predator Rookie

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    Where are you getting this stuff from? Brady signed a 2 year contract. I can't see retirement there with a year left. Troy is understandable, but he is taking up very little cap space. Tedy, I could see but at the same time his contract is up after next season as well. Rodney? Why? He is having a solid year and looks good. BTW, Rodney is signed through, you guessed it, 2008. Where are you getting this from? Jr. is a high probability.

    I can't see your general consensus given contracts, health, and success. Could you please cite your source?
  14. patsfan209

    patsfan209 Rookie

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    My source= my opinion and my circle of friends' opinions who are also Pats fans (who are not homers).

    Think about it: retiring with a SB ring after so many years in the league. There's no promises the Pats would get another chance at the SB next year.

    Re: contract... you know as well as I do they're never guaranteed. Otherwise Corey Dillon would still be here.

    Of course, you think all of them will come back next year and play for the next 15 years, despite all them playing already over a decade, thats your view.

    But still my question remains: do any retirements affect the cap space for 2008...
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2007
  15. The Predator

    The Predator Rookie

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    It is certainly fine to have an opinion. I respect your opinion, and kindly disagree. By all means, your opinion is not general consensus.

    When did I ever say that they were coming back next year and play for the next 15 seasons??? How is that my opinion? Where did I say that? Huh? What? Where did heck did that come from? Do you always make up things that you want people to say and then argue angainst them? That is a pretty lame attempt at making youself look good.

    If you could actually read, the point of my post was that most of these guys contracts expire after 2008. Did you even see that I made reference to 2008 multiple times in my post? In 2008, they are free agents. In 2008 they will no longer be playing under their contract. In 2008 they will have the chance to go elsewhere. Did you see the 2008 this time? I don't see 15 years anywhere. Oh ya, you made that up.

    Now if you read my original post for what I wrote and not what you want to say I wrote, I said I could see Tedy and Jr retiring. But obviously you didn't want to read that part.
  16. patsfan209

    patsfan209 Rookie

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    newbie, our "argument" is getting way off-topic in this thread. You are getting all riled up because I put up a possibility that the five players I mention could retire and I was wondering if assuming that could happen, could all of them being gone can free up space or not. Of course, you didn't read that part and stopped after "Junior Seau" in my original post. So who's lame now...

    And I'm still waiting if you or anyone else could answer my original question.
  17. skspikex2

    skspikex2 Rookie

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    #22 Jersey

    Colvin might have to restructure his deal.
  18. patsfaninpa

    patsfaninpa Rookie

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    Bruschi,Sean and T.brown aren't signed for next year. So, don't save anything off of Miguel's projected cap hit if they retire. K.Brady is signed for 3.0m and R. Harrison for 3.7m. I think you'd have to pay someone just as much to replace them and probably wouldn't get their production.
  19. psychoPat

    psychoPat Role Player PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Miguel consistently does such a great job keeping us current with all these arcane factors.

    After spending just a little time today with his family, hopefully he'll be able to address
    one or two of the lively questions posed above.

    Meanwhile here are a few reasons why my '08 mock roster has projected certain players:
    Randy ... the f/o and he probably agree on his value to the team, and get 'er done.
    Samuel ... he and the f/o probably cannot bridge the gulf in their separate appraisals of his value. He's a goner.
    Bru ... a great time to retire.
    Junior ... ditto ... as it already WAS two years ago, in his eyes. (He's still capable, but the surf calls.)
    Rodney ... remains TOO GOOD to quit now.
    Stallworth ... let go because Chad J. is a "Stallworth-in-waiting" ... and cheaper.

    I see 2 good linebackers and a CB acquired in free agency or the draft
    ... and much continued success next season too.
  20. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    I'll hapilly punt any salary cap expertise to Miguel, but I'm thinking that there's cap room to be found by focusing on Tom Brady's contract alone.

    Between converting next year's salary to guaranteed bonus $, to extending him past 2010 we can find the room to sign Moss as well as other free agents on our priority list.

    Cap management is all about robbing Peter to pay Paul - with the expectation that Peter (future salary cap figures) will have $7 million more each season we can "borrow" from.
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