Ravens Week Discussion

[Joker]

Despite his accomplishments on the field, Lewis' public image was tarnished following a Super Bowl party on January 31, 2000. Following the party, a fight broke out between him and rapper Chino Nino's entourage, in which Jacinth Baker, 21, and Richard Lollar, 24, died from stab wounds. Lewis and two companions, Reginald Oakley and Joseph Sweeting, were brought to an Atlanta police station for questioning. Eleven days later, along with Oakley and Sweeting, Lewis was indicted for murder and aggravated assault.

During the trial, several witnesses whose testimony would supposedly prove Lewis’ guilt had altered their stories initially given to investigators.Their testimonies were supposed to show that Ray Lewis hit, kicked or stabbed someone, and that he even admitted as much afterwards.
Lewis's attorney arranged with prosecutors to dismiss the murder charges if Lewis pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor charge of obstruction of justice in exchange for him testifying against Oakley and Sweeting. Lewis accepted the plea bargain and was sentenced to one year of probation. He was not suspended by the NFL but was fined US$250,000, a league record at the time.

Oakley and Sweeting were acquitted of the charges in June 2000. No other suspects have ever been arrested for the crime.

The following year, Lewis was named Super Bowl XXXV MVP. However, due to the controversy, he did not get the endorsements or the Disney World trip offered to recent MVP recipients. The signature phrase "I'm going to Disney World!" was given instead by quarterback Trent Dilfer.

On April 29, 2004, Lewis reached a settlement with four-year-old India Lollar, born months after the death of her father Richard, preempting a scheduled civil proceeding. [20] Lewis also reached an undisclosed settlement with Baker's family.

So, Mr Innocent gets off...everybody gets off...there's two dead men whose families deserve to know why, yet NOTHING is done about it.

I'm wondering if the Patriots offense will be issued flak jackets when they go into the shotgun in fear of being shot by #52, who will undoubtedly plead self defense and testify against Ed Reed afterwards.

 

[scpurkfool]

That has a lot to do with the game this sunday, great input buddy!

 

[PatsFanSince74]

One thing is clear, a lot of you guy are seriously underrating our running attack and offensive line.

It is not just the backs ( all 3 of them) but the Oline as well who I would put up there with anyone in the league right now. They are that good. We actually have one of the best graded out right guards from 2007 Marshall Yanda as our 6th guy because another guy who came in for him when he got injured is playing so well and they cant justify sitting him. It is like an embarrassment of riches up front from the left tackle to the right.

You guys have no idea how strong we are there, and to think you are going to shut down our running attack is just laughable with or without Wilfork.

There is no more stacking the box and cheating a safety down near the line because if you do that Flacco will pick you apart. Again, it all goes back to the balance we have on offense now with a QB. I really hope the Pats underestimate that facet of our game like you guys are.

We mauled people last year with a backup at RG and without a stud at RT like we have now, and no Ray Rice for the better part of the year. Now we have an absolute beast in Oher on the right side and ALL of our backs healthy and fresh. All three guys do different things and will keep the defense off balance.

you make a lot of good points in your posts and I truly appreciate the sincerity with you present your informed and often accurate view.

but you have to realize one thing; folks on this board understand that the wins that count come in december and january. it's about winning championships and not about what we do in september and october, as long as a team doesn't play itself out of it (the giants started 4-4 in 2007).

so, yes, sunday's game is important for both teams, as is any nfl game. and, yes, it will be a barometer of where the two teams are, but for different reasons.

beating a belichick/brady team in foxboro is always something to tout and you won't find me making excuses or whining if you do on sunday, which well you might.

but, the pats are building towards december and january where they have learned how to win championships with trips to five AFCG's and four SB's this decade. winning championships, consistently, in January is something this Ravens team has yet to show it will do. we're waiting to see if you can do that more than we are for the outcome of sunday's game.

that's kind of a compliment, BTW, because there is only one team in the conference that I would consider close to being a true peer to this team when it comes to championships, and it plays in Pittsburgh. in other words, it's time for the ravens to step up, from September to February as the Steelers and Pats have shown they can do.

if we lose on sunday, i'll be out here to say congrats to the winners without excuses. assume you'll do the same.

 

[H8R]

you make a lot of good points in your posts and I truly appreciate the sincerity with you present your informed and often accurate view.

but you have to realize one thing; folks on this board understand that the wins that count come in december and january. it's about winning championships and not about what we do in september and october, as long as a team doesn't play itself out of it (the giants started 4-4 in 2007).

so, yes, sunday's game is important for both teams, as is any nfl game. and, yes, it will be a barometer of where the two teams are, but for different reasons.

beating a belichick/brady team in foxboro is always something to tout and you won't find me making excuses or whining if you do on sunday, which well you might.

but, the pats are building towards december and january where they have learned how to win championships with trips to five AFCG's and four SB's this decade. winning championships, consistently, in January is something this Ravens team has yet to show it will do. we're waiting to see if you can do that more than we are for the outcome of sunday's game.

that's kind of a compliment, BTW, because there is only one team in the conference that I would consider close to being a true peer to this team when it comes to championships, and it plays in Pittsburgh. in other words, it's time for the ravens to step up, from September to February as the Steelers and Pats have shown they can do.

if we lose on sunday, i'll be out here to say congrats to the winners without excuses. assume you'll do the same.

Great concept and I like it. The only thing flawed is "winning in Dec-January" idea is dependant on WINNING NOW. Dec-Jan are not even a thought if you don't play well early. Each year is different, with different obstacles and scenarios. The Ravens have the BEST PLAYOFF WINNING PERCENTAGE OUT OF ANY TEAM IN HISTORY (.636). Guess you were unaware of that. I'm not falling for any of that though, it means NOTHING. Christ, the Ravens won a Super Bowl two years after they came to Baltimore. It took the Patriots DECADES to put together a WINNING Super Bowl year. Thank those darn newish logos!lol. j/p. They brought new life to that team!. I was a pretty big Pats fan in the Parcells/Bledsoe/Terry Glenn/Ben Coats/Curtis Martin era. I like the team and wont H8 on you like a Steelers/Colts fan. I respect how the franchise is ran and what it's accompolished

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

Moss isn't one of the Pats' four best players?

Perhaps "important at this moment" would be a better choice.

If I had to choice who would play, I would go with Welker. On NFLN Playbook yesterday, Theisman showed video of the Jets pressure. None of those plays looked unmanageable with Welker in.

 

[shmessy]

The Ravens have the BEST PLAYOFF WINNING PERCENTAGE OUT OF ANY TEAM IN HISTORY (.636).

Umm, please. Very convenient that you're taking the NAME - RAVENS 11 year record.

Your franchise is the Cleveland Browns/Ravens. Your 11 year "franchise record" doesn't exist.

But if you , indeed, want to use the time frame YOU REFERENCED, a team called the New England Patriots have gone 12-3 in the playoffs/SB (.800). So, using YOUR time frame reference, the Pats have clearly outdone the Ravens. The Patriots franchise record diminishes only because of its records during your franchise's Cleveland Browns era.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

Great concept and I like it. The only thing flawed is "winning in Dec-January" idea is dependant on WINNING NOW. Dec-Jan are not even a thought if you don't play well early. Each year is different, with different obstacles and scenarios. The Ravens have the BEST PLAYOFF WINNING PERCENTAGE OUT OF ANY TEAM IN HISTORY (.636). Guess you were unaware of that. I'm not falling for any of that though, it means NOTHING. Christ, the Ravens won a Super Bowl two years after they came to Baltimore. It took the Patriots DECADES to put together a WINNING Super Bowl year. Thank those darn newish logos!lol. j/p. They brought new life to that team!. I was a pretty big Pats fan in the Parcells/Bledsoe/Terry Glenn/Ben Coats/Curtis Martin era. I like the team and wont H8 on you like a Steelers/Colts fan. I respect how the franchise is ran and what it's accompolished

In 2001, the Pats started 0-2 same for the Giants in 2007. The Steelers were 7-5 and on a 3 game losing streak in 2005.

The Colts are always XX-0 and are continual one and done'rs.

In 2000, the Ravens were a wild card.

The key is get in the playoffs and play your best football in December to carry to January.

 

[H8R]

In 2001, the Pats started 0-2 same for the Giants in 2007. The Steelers were 7-5 and on a 3 game losing streak in 2005.

The Colts are always XX-0 and are continual one and done'rs.

In 2000, the Ravens were a wild card.

The key is get in the playoffs and play your best football in December to carry to January.

The key is to be consistent all year and then continue it into the playoffs. The situations you named are exceptions not the rule. More often then not, you start 0-3/1-3 with divisional losses and you're almost cooked. It not only matters the W/L record but WHO you lost too.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

The key is to be consistent all year and then continue it into the playoffs. The situations you named are exceptions not the rule. More often then not, you start 0-3/1-3 with divisional losses and you're almost cooked. It not only matters the W/L record but WHO you lost too.

Actually, consistency has not been the normal this decade

2000 Ravens wild card with defense getting better through the year
2001 Pats 0-2/5-5, then getting hot
2002 Bucs a 2 seed but struggled at the end of the season, got hot in January
2003 Pats, after week one they "hated" their coach, 2-2, then rolled
2004 Pats consistent
2005 Steelers 7-5 after losing 3 straight. Got hot
2006 Colts sucked at the end of the season, got hot
2007 Giants 0-2 start, got hot at the end
2008 Steelers, pretty consistent, had historically easy post season schedule. Ditto for the 9-7 Cardinals who got hot after the Pats game.

Don't know if this is the trend. However, with a cap/free agency/ rookies having to play because of big contracts, it's certainly a trend that can continue.

 

[mayoclinic]

Actually, consistency has not been the normal this decade

2000 Ravens wild card with defense getting better through the year
2001 Pats 0-2/5-5, then getting hot
2002 Bucs a 2 seed but struggled at the end of the season, got hot in January
2003 Pats, after week one they "hated" their coach, 2-2, then rolled
2004 Pats consistent
2005 Steelers 7-5 after losing 3 straight. Got hot
2006 Colts sucked at the end of the season, got hot
2007 Giants 0-2 start, got hot at the end
2008 Steelers, pretty consistent, had historically easy post season schedule. Ditto for the 9-7 Cardinals who got hot after the Pats game.

Don't know if this is the trend. However, with a cap/free agency/ rookies having to play because of big contracts, it's certainly a trend that can continue.

Over the past 5 years, the front runner through the end of November has not been the SB winner, and has often not even been in the SB:

2003 - Colts were the front runner in the AFC with an offensive juggernaut. Pats were a defensive team which was winning close games. Colts 1 and out.
2004 - Pittsburgh was the front runner in the AFC at 15-1, having beaten the defending SB champion Pats. Pitt lost in the AFCCG.
2005 - Colts were the front runner. At the beginning of December, the Steelers were a long shot to even make the playoffs. Colts upset by Steelers.
2006 - San Diego was the front runner. Finished 14-2 and looked dominant. Upset by Pats in first round.
2007 - Patriots were the front runner. 16-0. Upset by Giants in SB.
2008 - the Giants were probably the front runner until Plaxico Burress' shooting incident November 30. They weren't the same team after that.

I thought it was interesting that in USA Today's predictions for the game, the "experts" were divided 4-4 as to who would win the game. But 2 of the 4 who predicted Baltimore would win also predicted that NE would be the eventual AFC Champion.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

Over the past 5 years, the front runner through the end of November has not been the SB winner, and has often not even been in the SB:

2003 - Colts were the front runner in the AFC with an offensive juggernaut. Pats were a defensive team which was winning close games. Colts 1 and out.
2004 - Pittsburgh was the front runner in the AFC at 15-1, having beaten the defending SB champion Pats. Pitt lost in the AFCCG.
2005 - Colts were the front runner. At the beginning of December, the Steelers were a long shot to even make the playoffs. Colts upset by Steelers.
2006 - San Diego was the front runner. Finished 14-2 and looked dominant. Upset by Pats in first round.
2007 - Patriots were the front runner. 16-0. Upset by Giants in SB.
2008 - the Giants were probably the front runner until Plaxico Burress' shooting incident November 30. They weren't the same team after that.

I thought it was interesting that in USA Today's predictions for the game, the "experts" were divided 4-4 as to who would win the game. But 2 of the 4 who predicted Baltimore would win also predicted that NE would be the eventual AFC Champion.

Picking Baltimore is very understandable. They are an elite team that is hitting on all cylinders right now. We are not. besides week 4 has too many variables because of the limited play sample.

Picking us as AFC champion makes sense since we have the best potential as a team and have a history of improvement through the year.

 

[mayoclinic]

Picking Baltimore is very understandable. They are an elite team that is hitting on all cylinders right now. We are not. besides week 4 has too many variables because of the limited play sample.

Picking us as AFC champion makes sense since we have the best potential as a team and have a history of improvement through the year.

I'm quite content to let Baltimore and the Jets be the AFC front runners through November. In some ways, 2004 was ideal - we were right at the top, but our loss to Pittsburgh kept us in the shadows right up to the AFCCG despite back to back 14-2 seasons, being defending SB champions, and a record winning streak. Being the underdog going into the playoffs helped, I think.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Great concept and I like it. The only thing flawed is "winning in Dec-January" idea is dependant on WINNING NOW. Dec-Jan are not even a thought if you don't play well early. Each year is different, with different obstacles and scenarios. The Ravens have the BEST PLAYOFF WINNING PERCENTAGE OUT OF ANY TEAM IN HISTORY (.636). Guess you were unaware of that. I'm not falling for any of that though, it means NOTHING. Christ, the Ravens won a Super Bowl two years after they came to Baltimore. It took the Patriots DECADES to put together a WINNING Super Bowl year. Thank those darn newish logos!lol. j/p. They brought new life to that team!. I was a pretty big Pats fan in the Parcells/Bledsoe/Terry Glenn/Ben Coats/Curtis Martin era. I like the team and wont H8 on you like a Steelers/Colts fan. I respect how the franchise is ran and what it's accompolished

Thanks for the polite response. This board has a long history of accepting intelligent posts by oppo fans and even of accepting a little trash talk from them, as long as they're ready to take what they dish out.

Re the suggestion that winning in Dec/Jan depends on how you do in Sept/Oct, I simply present the 2007 Giants (4--4 start), 2005 Steelers (3--2) and the 2001 Patriots (1--3) and rest my case. If you're saying it's better to get off to a good start than a bad start, well that's tautologically true (and therefore uninteresting as a statement), but the dustbin of shattered hopes is full of teams who started hot and flopped, just ask the New York Jets and many others.

As for your point on the Ravens' Playoff record, I'll take it from you that the franchise's 7--4 (0.636) win percentage in a grand total of 11 Playoff games is the best in the league; it may well be since you are comparing yourselves to franchises who have been to many more post season games (I acknowledge that the franchise only dates from 1996, but you raised the point, not me). In those five playoff appearances, you didn't get out of the Division Round twice and failed to get out of the Wildcard round once, so I'd be a little careful about throwing those numbers around. You've been to three championship games (Conference and SB); the Pats have been to 13 (seven Conference and six SB's). You're picking the wrong fight there.

You observe that it took the Pats "DECADES" to get to its first SB and you are correct on that point (30 years to be exact). But the Steelers went 16 years between SB appearances and 26 years between SB wins after the great Noll/Bradshaw Dynasty, so does that somehow diminish the fact that they have appeared in 14 Conference Championships and seven SB's? For successful franchises, the NFL is all about "the long run." Again, I think you're picking the wrong fight.

If you're saying that for a franchise that is in its 13th season, the Ravens have done quite well, I'd agree with that, but their regular season record over the last 13 years (110--100-1 thru last week--over the same period the pats are 132--70) hardly puts them among the elite of the NFL. I like the Ravens, don't get me wrong. It's an organization that is committed to winning, and I really admire that. But the Steelers and Colts have earned our respect in a different way; that's my point.

 

[H8R]

You're missing my point.

1. You (Ravens or Pats) have to either win your division or be in second place and pick up a wild card spot.

2. Your (Ravens or Pats) season has a start and an end, but everything in between is equally as important. Each week matters, not just those in Dec-Jan. Consistency is the key. If you loose 3-4 games in october, you'd have to go on one hell of a run to even make the playoffs. Consistency doe snot mean WIN ALL YOUR GAMES, it comes from setting tempo, sticking to a game pland and executing on a REGULAR basis.

 

[H8R]

Thanks for the polite response. This board has a long history of accepting intelligent posts by oppo fans and even of accepting a little trash talk from them, as long as they're ready to take what they dish out.

Re the suggestion that winning in Dec/Jan depends on how you do in Sept/Oct, I simply present the 2007 Giants (4--4 start), 2005 Steelers (3--2) and the 2001 Patriots (1--3) and rest my case. If you're saying it's better to get off to a good start than a bad start, well that's tautologically true (and therefore uninteresting as a statement), but the dustbin of shattered hopes is full of teams who started hot and flopped, just ask the New York Jets and many others.

As for your point on the Ravens' Playoff record, I'll take it from you that the franchise's 7--4 (0.636) win percentage in a grand total of 11 Playoff games is the best in the league; it may well be since you are comparing yourselves to franchises who have been to many more post season games (I acknowledge that the franchise only dates from 1996, but you raised the point, not me). In those five playoff appearances, you didn't get out of the Division Round twice and failed to get out of the Wildcard round once, so I'd be a little careful about throwing those numbers around. You've been to three championship games (Conference and SB); the Pats have been to 13 (seven Conference and six SB's). You're picking the wrong fight there.

You observe that it took the Pats "DECADES" to get to its first SB and you are correct on that point (30 years to be exact). But the Steelers went 16 years between SB appearances and 26 years between SB wins after the great Noll/Bradshaw Dynasty, so does that somehow diminish the fact that they have appeared in 14 Conference Championships and seven SB's? For successful franchises, the NFL is all about "the long run." Again, I think you're picking the wrong fight.

If you're saying that for a franchise that is in its 13th season, the Ravens have done quite well, I'd agree with that, but their regular season record over the last 13 years (110--100 thru last week) hardly puts them among the elite of the NFL. I like the Ravens, don't get me wrong. It's an organization that is committed to winning, and I really admire that. But the Steelers and Colts have earned our respect in a different way; that's my point.

All very valid points! My main objective was to show that, I couldn't care less about the history or records or what have you. What I'm concerned about is THIS SUNDAY. Though just to give you some fodder, the Ravens also have a tenth of a point better regular season mark then the Pats (since you brought our regular season record into it) , ALL-TIME. I will never try to argue about the dynasty created by Mr. Kraft! Classy orgainization whose soul objective is to WIN. I think the Ravens are well on the way to being a consistent winner, I think all the tools are here and the people in place no how to operate!

 

[mayoclinic]

You're missing my point.

1. You (Ravens or Pats) have to either win your division or be in second place and pick up a wild card spot.

2. Your (Ravens or Pats) season has a start and an end, but everything in between is equally as important. Each week matters, not just those in Dec-Jan. Consistency is the key. If you loose 3-4 games in october, you'd have to go on one hell of a run to even make the playoffs. Consistency doe snot mean WIN ALL YOUR GAMES, it comes from setting tempo, sticking to a game pland and executing on a REGULAR basis.

I don't think we're missing the point.

Of course, as you point out, every game counts. There's no doubt about that. Last year was painful proof to the Patriots that you could be playing at an elite level in December and be home watching the playoffs in January because of a couple of sloppy losses. There's no doubt that we were one of the 6 best teams in the AFC at the end of the season, but we missed the playoffs. Losing a game in September can be just as costly as losing one in December.

We've also benefitted from early wins. In 2004 we beat a very good Colts team at Foxboro 27-24 in our home opener, in a game decided in the final minutes. Without that win, we would not have had a bye week, and would have had to play the Colts in the dome rather than in Foxboro in January.

At the same time, this team is used to going to the postseason and playing deep into it, which puts the regular season, especially the early regular season, into perspective. It's a long season, and the hot team out of the gate is seldom the hot team at the end. We've both benefitted and have been victims of that phenomenon, too.

I want the Pats to win on Sunday, not doubt about it. The game counts. I'd rather be 3-1 than 2-2, and stay 1 game behind the Jets or possibly catch up as opposed to potentially falling 2 games back. It's a big game, with potential AFC bragging rights. It could affect playoff seeding and home field advantage. Big game. Important game.

But still an early October game. We could get blown out in this game and still be the dominant team in the NFL by December. This team has the talent to run the table at any time if it gets healthy and in sync. The Ravens have been terrific, no doubt about that, but they have also been healthy and have benefitted from playing injured and opponents. No Jammal Williams against SD helps. You guys should know from recent history how injuries can decimate a team.

Sure I want a win now. But I'll take a loss now and a win on the road in the AFCCG over the Ravens instead, if that's what it takes. And a win by either team on Sunday doesn't mean that the other one won't win the next time around, in the playoffs when it really counts.

 

[JackBauer]

NFL Football Scores - NFL Scoreboard - ESPN - ESPN

Why is Welker listed as the Pat's top receiver this season

 

[SHOWTIME15]

you guys should read about how the ravens fans think they are going to stomp us out on Sunday. here, it seems like we are giving them credit for being a good team and that it will be tough to beat them. there, they are talking about getting "revenge" on us from 07' - don't know why, it was just a regular season game and if they had beaten us we probably would have won the super bowl not letting the pressure of going 19-0 get to us.

Next Up: New England (Merged Threads) - Ravens Official Message Board

 

[H8R]

I just think the mentality of a Ravens fan is different then a Pats fan. The Pats fan has gotten so used to excellence (playoffs at a minimum), they almost take it for granted that they'll be in the playoffs. Baltimore fans (at least educated/realistic ones), even though we've done pretty well in the past, we wont look past the game at hand. To talk playoffs now as a Ravens fan is SILLY, in fact most wont. Where as a lot of speculation, on your board is the Pats are a shoe in for making the playoffs/winning the division.

As you stated injuries can crush a team, heck we had 19 on IR last year yet still made the playoffs and picked up a few road playoff wins. Just the same, the Pats lost Tom and made a good strong run but came up just a little short. Injuries like these are why I don't talk playoffs until there is either an X or a Z in the standings in front of the word "BALTIMORE"

 

[mayoclinic]

you guys should read about how the ravens fans think they are going to stomp us out on Sunday. here, it seems like we are giving them credit for being a good team and that it will be tough to beat them. there, they are talking about getting "revenge" on us from 07' - don't know why, it was just a regular season game and if they had beaten us we probably would have won the super bowl not letting the pressure of going 19-0 get to us.

Next Up: New England (Merged Threads) - Ravens Official Message Board

Who cares what they think, or if they're bitter. Hope they think we'll roll over like Cleveland.

We're a bunch of out-of-sync "has beens" on offense with an inexperienced "no name" defense. Living on past glory. Whereas these Ravens are strong and tough, and have no weaknesses (outside of their CBs). They eat their Wheaties when they're not eating other teams for breakfast.

Boys against Men.

We're doooomed!!!