Ravens Game NFLN Replay - First Impression

[PatsFan37]

First of all, Box and AWTE did a terrific job on the breakdowns. Great stuff. This is what I most value in the boards. I watched the game again and took a few notes here and there, but I have little to add of that kind of value. I will try, though and you can take it for what it is. I certainly don't feel strongly about these observations.

On the CJack/Cassel INT, I have nothing to say that hasn't been said much better, except for this: have we ever so completely dissected a preseason play? Imagine if that had gone well and Jackson had caught it, broken a tackle and taken it 15 yds. We'd be singing Cassel's and Jackson's praises. A game of inches. (granted, that was more like several yards, but if they'd gotten their communication correct). As someone else pointed out, Watson had the same sort of sight-adjustment problems and no one ever accused him of being stupid. Let's wait and see.

I thought Santonio Thomas struggled. On one snap he was pancaked and on another he couldn't split a double team (maybe that's too much to expect, but it looked like he was being handled too easily).

I did see Crable struggling at first, but it's well documented how he came on strong after that.

To my eye, Fifita looked okay. But I barely know how to pronounce 'nose tackle'.

I thought Lewis Sanders looked good. I saw at least one deflection. Good coverage and using his size in the running game.

Yates did not look good. One one play he was simply batted aside by a rusher. OTOH, if you watch the play where Cassel slipped, focus on Yates and you'll see him tossing around rushers pretty effectively. I think the coaches may see more in him than some of the folks here who have already shipped him off to Home Depot.

On Figurs long punt return, I thought the refs missed a pretty obvious block in the back on Alexander. Izzo was also in on the return, so one of my comments that 'STs are breaking down without Izzo' missed the obvious point that Izzo was there.

Watching Gutz, I'm curious if Metaphors, or someone else with a good eye for fundamentals, also thinks he has a lengthy wind-up. Seems to take too long to get his arm back to throw. Just a quick observation, not a comment on all his drop backs.

On the blown CJack bubble screen, I wondered what a WRs is suposed to do to sell the screen. If he should take a more forceful step downfield, selling with his feet and body, before snapping around for the pass. CJack took a tentative half step downfield and seemed slow turning for the pass, and then Cassel was slow throwing it. Everything moving in slow motion except for the OLB.

Bummer about Tank. He'll be missed.

One of the nice things about slow motion replay is you don't have to listen to the announcers.

That's all I got. Back to the experts.

 

[cstjohn17]

No worries being in disagreement, BB will settle it for us.

Disagreement makes the world go around, and money.

BB knows his stuff, but in the past our primary backups have been Rohan Davey and Matt Cassell. I am firmly in the camp that if anything happens to Brady the team's goals are in serious question, in that respect it doesn't really matter who plays #2 or #3. But in the back of my mind, it would be nice to have a semblance of confidence in the backup if for no other reason than for simple hope.

 

[Jimke]

I'm pleased to read that the Patriots did much better in the game

than I thought. The fans who attended the game (like me) who

booed when they left the field at half time shoud be ashamed and

turn in their season tickets. I admit that I don't know diddily about

football but it stretches my credibility a little when I read that Cassell

and Gutierrez weren't so bad, the first offensive line played O.K., and

that the special teams would have played better except for penalties

that were not called.

Why do so many members of this forum go on the defensive when

anything bad is said or written about the Patriots? This was just a

pre-season game. Some aspects of the game were bad (offense and

special teams) but others quite good (O'Connell, Jordan, defense).

Based on what I saw Thursday night, the draft class of 2008 and the

UDFAs (Guyton, Redd) put on an impressive first performance.

Rather than come up with excuses for the bad performances,

accentuate the good ones.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I'm pleased to read that the Patriots did much better in the game

than I thought. The fans who attended the game (like me) who

booed when they left the field at half time shoud be ashamed and

turn in their season tickets. I admit that I don't know diddily about

football but it stretches my credibility a little when I read that Cassell

and Gutierrez weren't so bad, the first offensive line played O.K., and

that the special teams would have played better except for penalties

that were not called.

Why do so many members of this forum go on the defensive when

anything bad is said or written about the Patriots? This was just a

pre-season game. Some aspects of the game were bad (offense and

special teams) but others quite good (O'Connell, Jordan, defense).

Based on what I saw Thursday night, the draft class of 2008 and the

UDFAs (Guyton, Redd) put on an impressive first performance.

Rather than come up with excuses for the bad performances,

accentuate the good ones.

Gently lad, most of us here like our team and wish them well - we also get frustrated when they fail, or in Thursday night's case, appear to fail. The bottom line is that game was a competitive scrimmage, intended not to score a win preseason, but to prepare the team for the regular season and a run to the playoffs.

The advantage of recording the game and rewatching it in slow motion is you get more details to consider. You expressed your thoughts Thursday by booing, I'm expressing mine by discussing what I am seeing when I watch the recording. I see no need to boo and plenty of grounds for optimism. Enjoy the next preseason game, I will.

 

[PatsFan37]

Jimke, I feel like people are just telling what they saw. I do give more credibility to people who rewind the game and watch it in slow motion. If some folks want to be negative, I have no problem with that. There were a lot of negative things. There were positive things as well.

OTOH, booing some poor scrub who's busting a gut trying to make the team doesn't show a lot of class.

 

[Jimke]

Gently lad, most of us here like our team and wish them well - we also get frustrated when they fail, or in Thursday night's case, appear to fail. The bottom line is that game was a competitive scrimmage, intended not to score a win preseason, but to prepare the team for the regular season and a run to the playoffs.

The advantage of recording the game and rewatching it in slow motion is you get more details to consider. You expressed your thoughts Thursday by booing, I'm expressing mine by discussing what I am seeing when I watch the recording. I see no need to boo and plenty of grounds for optimism. Enjoy the next preseason game, I will.

Just to correct a minor point, I was not one of the ones that booed.
I've been watching these guys since 1960 and have seen a lot of
lousy teams and recently some exceptional teams. Thursday night,
I saw some good things and some bad ones. The latter will probably be
corrected.

 

[PatsFan37]

Just to correct a minor point, I was not one of the ones that booed.

Good to hear. I enjoy your posts and it didn't seem to fit with the things you've said.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Just to correct a minor point, I was not one of the ones that booed.
I've been watching these guys since 1960 and have seen a lot of
lousy teams and recently some exceptional teams. Thursday night,
I saw some good things and some bad ones. The latter will probably be
corrected.

:rocker:


1010101010

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Years past, abyssmal performance was not corrected. Teams did not improve. There was little hope. We watched the Patriots for the sheer joy of seeing a hometown team play NFL ball and the occasional upset. Most every W was an upset.

 

[Metaphors]

Watching Gutz, I'm curious if Metaphors, or someone else with a good eye for fundamentals, also thinks he has a lengthy wind-up. Seems to take too long to get his arm back to throw. Just a quick observation, not a comment on all his drop backs.

I'll claim ignorance on this one since I haven't seen enough to notice a pattern and don't have any video of him handy. He does seem to have good pace in the pocket. He gets to his spot and moves around without wasted motion. You've peaked my interest so I'll be watching his throwing motion in upcoming games. If I had to guess, I would say that if you noticed it while watching the game, there is probably something to your observation.

 

[Heck67]

With one half in the books, I'm quite pleased with this team.

Slater's STs play is encouraging - I think once the roster stabilizes Special Teams is going to be as good if not better then last season.

Lamont Jordan is not doing a great job as the lead blocker on KRs, Willie Andrews is being missed there.

I hope punt coverage improves drastically....man we sucked on coverage

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I hope punt coverage improves drastically....man we sucked on coverage

True, but then Seely's lads don't start to gel until after cutdown to the final 53 and he can work them up as standard team. I was looking for individual performance and early on we have Guyton and Slater showing speed and hustle - nice.

It's also worth noting that Harbaugh got HC of the Dirtbirds with Special Team's coach his big resume point, it would have surprised me if a guy who badly wanted to win his first game of any sort as a HC wouldn't put the effort in his teams early on.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Back to the tape:

Just before the controversial Chad Cassel int, Maroney runs what looks like an inside zone bounced outside for a nice gain. The Pats went with two WR, two TE balanced against a 3-4 by the Dirtbirds for a 7 on 7 at the line. The ILBs closed the inside lanes quickly, but the blocking up front worked to keep any one from penetrating allowing Maroney to cut left and run down the line, beating the defenders around the corner to pick up about 6 yds. Chad Jackson had a nice block outside on the CB which he stuck with, giving Maroney clear sailing as he turned the corner. The Ravens were also flagged on the play for an unidentified penalty.

Okay, post int, back to defense - again I steal the work AWTE did and add my comments to his (AWTE in italics). See Deus Irae's post #50 for a link to AWTE's original post at Patriots Planet.

Ravens Ball: Pats show cover 4 pre-snap. Guyton reads a seam by the TE and works to defend it but the TE converted the Seam to a Sit route underneath Guyton. This was probably a play tag to change the route based on what the Ravens had been seeing from the box. Okay, as noted Guyton is in the middle with Mayo, Crable (ROLB), LeKevin Smith (RDE), Steve Fifita (NT), and Santonio Thomas (LDE) are all in up front joining Woods and Mayo as the holdovers from the starters. Lewis Sanders is in for Bryant at RCB. The TE sat right in the middle underneath Guyton and Mayo, with Guyton getting the first hit before being joined by Mayo and Meriweather...thank you Randy Cross for giving Mayo the credit.

2nd & 2: This was not well played by the back-up Dline. Neither Mayo or Guyton were able to shed their blockers. I thought Santonio and Fifita actually did a decent job of stacking and shedding to close the truck lane created by the RG getting upfield three yds to block Mayo. 260 lb FB Laron McClain was able to fall forward for the 1st down.

1st & 10: Pats disguised and changed their coverage post snap to some type of Man. The TV doesn't give us the view though. Sanders shows good man skills here. LeKevin and Fifita get doubled up, Santonio and Woods got penetration, but were kept outside allowing Boller to step up behind the double-teams and make his throw. Crable didn't chuck the TE, just turned and dropped. Neither ILB got very far from the line, both were bunched on top of the RB underneath - possible mix-up there.

2nd & 10: Crable does a poor job on run force here giving the RB the edge. He is too head-up. He needs to use his inside shoulder to get the proper leverage. Reps will help. Yep, bad Crabs. LeKevin had nice penetration to force the cut outside, at least Crabs speed and long arms helped catch Rice from behind for the tackle...with a little head hunting by Meriweather. Nice hustle by Santonio pursuing across the field from the LDE.

3rd & 5: More Man under here. Crable shows good man skills using a trail tech against an outside release TE in coverage. Wheatly lost his leverage on the crossing route. The Pats rushed three allowing double-teams on the three DL (nice chip on Santonio to deck him). Woods is seen telling the rookies inside something and stepping off the line before he disrupted the underneath crossing route.

1st & 10: Play action screen. LeKevin Smith makes the play from behind. He has been pretty active since he got in. Fifita is working hard but he appears limited in what he can accomplish. Give Guyton an attaboy, he started dropping into coverage, then read the screen and came from the other side to knife between the blockers and slow Rice for LeKevin to catch him. AWTE: Did Santonio read a screen? He starts to rush then pulls up and is tracking Boller before getting sealed inside by the RT.

2nd & 6: Mayo and Guyton worked well together here against Rice on the lead draw. Neither fell for the simple fake. Guyton filled against the lead back bouncing Rice where Mayo mirrored him laterally and finished with his big hit. A nice job by the young ILBs. Fifita eats up a double-team to leave Mayo unblocked.

3rd & 5: Sanders has nice man coverage here. We never get a full look at the coverage but I didn't see a free safety in the MOF so Sanders was on his own and did an excellent job what ever it was. (Possibly man style Cover 4) This was an "attax" defense with Tank and Ventrone coming in. Tank was over the Birds' right slot, jamming him hard and running with him inside. Ventrone was outside at RCB and did a nice job on the wideout.

Punt: False start Birds. Take two: C.J. Jones lets it go over his head into the end zone.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Note: For those skeptical of Bryant's standing as a probable starter, please see post #73 where Bryant, AD, Bru, Sey, Ty, and Vince have all been taken out together, replaced by second string players.

 

[Dagg]

I wasnt impressed with our return game at all and our coverages were horrible. Not sure why every one is so high on slater he didnt show me much at all.

 

[BradyManny]

Note: For those skeptical of Bryant's standing as a probable starter, please see post #73 where Bryant, AD, Bru, Sey, Ty, and Vince have all been taken out together, replaced by second string players.

I'm late to this re-watching party, but I've taken a closer look at the first few drives...a couple Q's related to this point:

- AD dropped into coverage on nearly every pass play on that initial drive, they started sending him [to pass rush] more on the ensuing drive. Is his dropping into coverage so much on the first drive a function of the D's play call or a reaction to the Ravens play call?

- On those first two pass plays in Bryant's direction - at least on the second one, you see AD come up short in how much area he can cover. Is Bryant playing with too big a cushion on those passes? Is AD not covering enough ground?

More ignorant questions to come later.

 

[Metaphors]

I'm late to this re-watching party, but I've taken a closer look at the first few drives...a couple Q's related to this point:

- AD dropped into coverage on nearly every pass play on that initial drive, they started sending him [to pass rush] more on the ensuing drive. Is his dropping into coverage so much on the first drive a function of the D's play call or a reaction to the Ravens play call?

- On those first two pass plays in Bryant's direction - at least on the second one, you see AD come up short in how much area he can cover. Is Bryant playing with too big a cushion on those passes?

More ignorant questions to come later.

Excellent questions and unfortunately it is impossible to tell the intent of the defensive play call. We can make guesses but that is all they are. I'm inclined to believe that Bryant's responsibility was to play off the receiver. He has always been a solid cover guy and from all reports has been covering tight in camp. I doubt he forgot how to cover overnight.

As for your observations of AD, I didn't specifically notice him on those plays but your point is well taken. Dude can get his considerable bulk moving forward but it has to be more difficult dropping into coverage. Short zones shouldn't be much of a problem with his quickness but as you point out there is likely a limit as to how deep he can drop in the necessary time. Same for Vrabel. On the plus side, it looks like Crable and his skinny legs has impressive range in coverage.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Aaaand the Pats are back on offense: (AWTE's notes in italics)

Pats Ball:

1st & 10: Maroney on Outside Zone. Yates was beaten on the scoop block again. There is a huge seam inside for Maroney but he can't exploit it because of the penetration Yates allowed here. The Pats have two WR left and two TE right - D.Thomas comes in motion left. Worth noting, the Ravens had 9 men in the box - I'm not sure Maroney was going anywhere even if he could have taken the cutback inside. D.Thomas looked good blocking.

2nd & 12: Nice job by Maroney of showing patience with his blocks on a slip screen. Cassel did a nice sell and delivered the ball with nice touch. Chad was upfield with a good block that gave Maroney room to rumble once he cleared the OL.

3rd & 1: Tough pick-up on a short yardage lead. Pollard had a good block and Evans took good sport icon Bart Scott out of the play. Yates and Britt opened the hole that got Maroney the yard. I wish to thank the maroons broadcasting that game, and especially the director, I can never get enough close-ups of the side of helmets when teams are setting up and snapping the ball. I encourage you to leave your current position and tour the country with your artistic and highly informative helmet close-up collection - you'll pack'em-in in droves.

End of First Quarter

Pats' Ball

1st & 10: Decent job by Cassell to avoid pressure here. He found Ventrone who was unable to hold on to the tough catch. Cassell was locked on to the front side. Brady here probably finds the wide open Maroney in the flat with lots of room to run. (Maroney was used downfield in the passing game ) Maroney has a LB on him (you see him at the start of the play, that's the #49 who comes in from the outside and punches the ball out on Ventrone. Cassel had just broken a tackle and was stepping up prepared to scramble. Cassel would have need to reset and fire a rope to Maroney to give him a chance to make the catch and duck the LB before he could run. I thought Dave Thomas on the other side might have been open, but he also had a man over top about five yds away, I'm inclined to say Cassel made the right choice hitting Ventrone - if he hangs on you're close to a 1st down. Look at Dave Thomas trying to run down the Raven running with the presumed fumble, he came from the far sideline to get in and exchange pleasantries with the Ravens - another nice hustle play. Holding by Britt. Oh yes, look at Dave Thomas on the overhead shot, he's the late release into the left flat, he never slows down, shifting from running his pattern to racing towards the Ventrone collision spot as he sees the ball coming out.

The overhead view shows the Ravens playing Cover 4 using the man on outside verticals style.

1st & 20: Pats run the Jab I was looking for at practice earlier this week. Koppen **** the bed on his back block blowing this thing up. Maroney must be one frustrated guy sometimes. The line always seems to allow much more penetration when he is running the ball than anyone else for some reason. Pats 2 WR left, 2 TE right - D.Thomas in motion to left. Ravens 4-3, 8 in the box. Yates pulls behind Koppen and Mankins to lead, Koppen is too late to even brush the DT shooting through to tackle Maroney as he takes the handoff. I think that's on Koppen this time.

2nd & 22: 2 back Outside Zone. Unblocked back-side DE ran it down. Last season, the Pats sifted the BS DE to OLB frequently. Here, they ran the BS OT on a scoop with the BS OG leaving the BS DE free to make the play on long yardage. Britt is beaten to the outside, turning Maroney back inside for the tackle.

3rd & 21: The rebirth of the Charlie Weiss reverse roll out that was used to such good effectiveness against tough pass rushes several years ago. Unfortunately, Cassell slipped and fell while trying to set up. The theory here is simple, deep pass on long yardage, move the spot to disrupt the pass rush. Looked good until Matt lost his feet. I agree with PatsFan37 that this was a well blocked play against an initial 5 rushers, with a 6th coming once his coverage responsibility stayed in to block.

It's 13:29 in the 2nd Qtr, Cassel is done for the game and I still think he executed the offense well and hasn't lost any ground to Gutierrez or O'Connell. I'm not even really down on Chad Jackson, as far as game conditions go he's still a rookie. The timing/trust issues between Chad and Matt would be worked out with more practice reps. Chad will get coached on his sight adjustments and route running. I give the kid a big attaboy for his blocking.

Punt: Guyton showed great hustle on this busted coverage. Not to kick a man when he's down but Tank Williams blew the coverage here. He's the wing protector and appeared to be assigned as the force player. He took a poor angle giving the punt returner the edge. He needed to close with his inside shoulder on the punt returner's outside shoulder. Instead, Tank closed on the returner's inside shoulder with his outside shoulder, giving the returner the edge. It's a game of inches I'm told. Both Gunners were doubled and neither got off the LOS, poor. The upside is that left the interior guys with a free release, but as AWTE notes, inside guy Tank Williams went for the kill and missed the fact that he inherited outside contain on the wide/field side after the Gunners got jammed. Kudos to Heath Evans for coming down in control, it looked like he set himself for some containment on the sideline side. Eric Alexander shows some singleminded aggression when he was blocked down in a possible block in the back and still got in a couple lunges at Figurs feet to slow him and nearly grab an ankle. Well done. Put a black mark next to Slater's name too, once he finally got off the jam and came downfield, he failed to contain Figurs after Alexander had slowed him, instead allowing him to get to the corner behind his blocking wall.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I'm late to this re-watching party, but I've taken a closer look at the first few drives...a couple Q's related to this point:

- AD dropped into coverage on nearly every pass play on that initial drive, they started sending him [to pass rush] more on the ensuing drive. Is his dropping into coverage so much on the first drive a function of the D's play call or a reaction to the Ravens play call?

- On those first two pass plays in Bryant's direction - at least on the second one, you see AD come up short in how much area he can cover. Is Bryant playing with too big a cushion on those passes? Is AD not covering enough ground?

More ignorant questions to come later.

The linebackers are always talking to each other out there, making adjustments to shifts in the formation and communicating reads. I'd suspect AD dropping in coverage was directly related to a sight adjustment by the linebackers assigning him coverage.

Check out AWTE's coverage breakdown discussing where Bryant is, I think it will help with the question - he also addresses and AD coverage drop at one point. http://www.patriotsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=851156&postcount=9

 

[BradyManny]

I'm inclined to believe that Bryant's responsibility was to play off the receiver. He has always been a solid cover guy and from all reports has been covering tight in camp. I doubt he forgot how to cover overnight.

As for your observations of AD, I didn't specifically notice him on those plays but your point is well taken. Dude can get his considerable bulk moving forward but it has to be more difficult dropping into coverage. Short zones shouldn't be much of a problem with his quickness but as you point out there is likely a limit as to how deep he can drop in the necessary time.

Yeah, agreed, no doubt AD has some wheels for sure - but it looked to be just a little bit too much space for the big fella to cover. He got a hand up and almost tipped it.

Good point re: Bryant - in fact, I was taking a look at Football Outsiders Prospectus the other day, and based on their metrics, Bryant was a more effective corner - aside from INTs of course - than either Asante or Hobbs. Worthy of note is also that Hobbs had a better success rate than A$ante.