Ravens Game NFLN Replay - First Impression

[Pats726]

Great breakdown Box....I really didn't think the offense line was THAT bad..nor really that good either..but it's a start. But I thought Cassel looked nervous..sloppy..not what I expected..esp when the other two showed more poise..1st year and 2nd year players..GRANTED not up against the starters..but?? I expected a bitbetter from him..more poise wise. The D looked solid which is a good point.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

That's usually what happens when the WR doesn't read the blitz and the QB did... Jackson should have cut off his route and come back for a hot throw off the blitz. When he doesn't it makes it appear as if his QB threw at an empty space...

Earlier when Chad got 'tripped', had he gained the separation a GO wideout is designed to with his wonderful speed we all read about it woulda been a catch and maybe even a TD for Chad & Cassel. Those two plays define a quarterback killer.

 

[Deus Irae]

Earlier when Chad got 'tripped', had he gained the separation a GO wideout is designed to with his wonderful speed we all read about it woulda been a catch and maybe even a TD for Chad & Cassel. Those two plays define a quarterback killer.

That makes absolutely no sense at all. How does getting tripped on a play where you seem to have beaten your man make the receiver a quarterback killer, especially when it happens to pretty much every receiver at one point or another?

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

That makes absolutely no sense at all.

The play was designed for the wideout to blow by the DB. Despite his vaunted speed, the WR failed to do so. Slo-mo with a HD DVR it looks like he may have even slightly pulled back. If your review contradicts this I'll accept that but any way the pass was thrown to where the WR should be.

EDIT From another thread a better writeup than I did...

Jackson was wrong, and Brady has been barking at him in practice too. On the first play his QB saw he had the coverage beat by a step and Cassel led him which is what he's supposed to do, put it where only his guy can get to it - but CJ didn't anticipate that adjustment and instread eased up as he approached the prescribed route distance and let the coverage run up his back. On the screen he really telegraphed it and was flatfooted as the ball arrived so he got hammered. Same play from Gutz to CJ an hour later somehow resulted in a 4-5 yard gain because the other CJ was on his toes anticipating the hit and he apun away from it (albeit against 2nd stringers...). On the throw during the blitz it is the WR's job to read the same thing post snap as the QB reads. He needed to come back for the hot throw and he didn't. He pulls this crap with Brady even in pre season and that will be his undoing. Cassel addressed the situation post game. CJ was MIA. That's all you need to know to grasp who made the mistakes.

He's having some of the same problems Watson had dealing with a sight adjusted offense. It's complicated and layered, and it'stough to execute with precision when you have to over-think every situation because it's just not coming naturally. Watch Welker some time. He never thinks, his mind and body just react in unison to what his eyes see unfolding. It's called instinct. Mayo has it and you can see that in his rookie season. How well he develops it will be what makes him a great vs. good player. The good news is he seems to be focused on developing it. I think CJ has been focused instead on proving he can stay healthy (ergo the physique) and he can run a prescribed pattern. Unfortunately that is just the tip of the iceberg for an NFL WR.

 

[Deus Irae]

The play was designed for the wideout to blow by the DB. Despite his vaunted speed, the WR failed to do so. Slo-mo with a HD DVR it looks like he may have even slightly pulled back. If your review contradicts this I'll accept that but any way the pass was thrown to where the WR should be.

Again.... tripped up. It happens, and it has nothing to do with being a quarterback killer.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Again.... tripped up. It happens, and it has nothing to do with being a quarterback killer.

See edit to previous post

 

[Deus Irae]

Again.... tripped up. It happens, and it has nothing to do with being a quarterback killer.

See edit to previous post

The edit you quote points out that Jackson did beat his man. It undermines your point, which was that he couldn't gain separation. Mo's claim is that he had the man beat and pulled back. That's two different issues.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

The edit you quote points out that Jackson did beat his man. It undermines your point, which was that he couldn't gain separation. Mo's claim is that he had the man beat and pulled back. That's two different issues.

Two different interpretations. Pick your favorite screwup. Both are arguable as I'd said.

 

[Deus Irae]

Two different interpretations. Pick your favorite screwup. Both are arguable as I'd said.

They are completely different things. Your argument is that the kid can't beat his man and get separation. Mo's saying that he beat his man but didn't take advantage of it, perhaps because of inexperience. It's why your point doesn't make sense. It's got to be one or the other: it can't be both. And they have very different implications for the kid's future.

 

[Deus Irae]

Here's more by AWTE, including more on Jackson:

http://www.patriotsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=851402&postcount=21

 

[cstjohn17]

Matt Cassel: I'll need to rewatch with slow-mo, but I didn't see the same problems others saw. My first impression is that he's still firmly in the running for #2, he played into the second quarter before making way for the two kids. It looked like normal division of playing time to me.

I have to disagree, when your QB rating is 0 it is hard to sugar coat it. The Ravens blitzed quite a bit for the 1st preseason game but there will still plenty of times that they rushed 4 against 5 and still were instantly in the backfield.

I will re-watch tonight and see if I feel any differently.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

They are completely different things. Your argument is that the kid can't beat his man and get separation. Mo's saying that he beat his man but didn't take advantage of it, perhaps because of inexperience. It's why your point doesn't make sense. It's got to be one or the other: it can't be both. And they have very different implications for the kid's future.

Once again, I said pick YOUR interpretation. Either OR. Enjoy debating yourself.:disagreement:

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I have to disagree, when your QB rating is 0 it is hard to sugar coat it. The Ravens blitzed quite a bit for the 1st preseason game but there will still plenty of times that they rushed 4 against 5 and still were instantly in the backfield.

I will re-watch tonight and see if I feel any differently.

By QB rating I assume you meant his passer rating? I'm not looking for Tom Brady or Chad Pennington or even J.P. Losman when I watch Cassel. What I saw in the first series was a seventh round draft pick who has taken very few game reps in his college/NFL career and is working with a mix of 1's, 2's, & 3's against a similar mix in the first game of the preseason. On that first series he looked reasonably decisive considering he and his #1 WR were working off different paragraphs if not different pages. Rough yeh, but not shaky.

On the first 3 and out the Ravens penetrated once to disrupt a Maroney run, rushed 6 and tripped (inadvertently) the open WR (who from some views may have slowed for the catch, that's for the coaches to know) causing an incompletion, and made a nice play on a bubble screen that never worked once last season when run by that WR. I saw things Cassel could have done better, but I didn't see a guaranteed 8-8 season if Brady went down - not when the game plan is altered to take advantage of Cassel's strengths.

As I've said elsewhere here, all three QBs looked solid for where they are in their development - lot's of room to get better, but in a team sport they'll have some help. Gut looked okay, but okay working against lesser competition, with lesser talent around him. Note that Gut was one-hopping some of his throws, I'm not ready to say it's arm strength, more likely it's knowing when to bring the heat and when to throw with touch. Gut was thinking his way through where Cassel was reacting from training - that puts Cassel ahead of Gut on my scorecard.

O'Connell looked very promising, and very limited. He was turned loose to just go out there and play without really trying to execute the decision trees the other QBs were using - it looked fun against the Ravens' scrubs (and recall Gut and O'Con both had some veteran OL mixed into the O-line - just look at the line surge on the TD drive, the Pats FA vet signings were out-classing those Ravens' scrub DL).

I'm going to watch some more, but I didn't see anything in that game to change the depth chart behind Tommy.

Having watched the game through once, I'm psyched about this team. The younger players all showed why Pioli went looking for them. Chad is the only one whom I still have questions about, but I'm not ready to write him off either - maybe after another series.

 

[Metaphors]

Gut was thinking his way through where Cassel was reacting from training - that puts Cassel ahead of Gut on my scorecard.

Based on what I saw during the broadcast (with some limited hightlights as well) it seemed that Cassel's footwork and delivery were out of whack...either rushed or just somehow messed up. I've always liked his fundamentals but always thought he moved slowly in the backfield. Maybe he was trying to work on speeding up his pace (and the Ravens pressure and questionable protection didn't help), but the results were uneven at best. Not drawing conclusions based on a handful of snaps but it is something I will be watching in the upcoming games.

O'Connell looked very promising, and very limited. He was turned loose to just go out there and play without really trying to execute the decision trees the other QBs were using - it looked fun against the Ravens' scrubs (and recall Gut and O'Con both had some veteran OL mixed into the O-line - just look at the line surge on the TD drive, the Pats FA vet signings were out-classing those Ravens' scrub DL).

I was actually pleasantly surprised with O'Connell's fundamentals. Under no circumstances should he see the field this year, but he seems to be responding well to the coaching thrown his way. The sideline throw to Ventrone was a quality NFL play. In the end zone, scrambling under pressure...a perfect situation to forget everything you've learned in camp. Instead, O'Connell kept his legs under him, squared his shoulders and threw a strong and accurate pass. As you say, very promising but not ready to drink from the firehose quite yet.

 

[cstjohn17]

By QB rating I assume you meant his passer rating? I'm not looking for Tom Brady or Chad Pennington or even J.P. Losman when I watch Cassel. What I saw in the first series was a seventh round draft pick who has taken very few game reps in his college/NFL career and is working with a mix of 1's, 2's, & 3's against a similar mix in the first game of the preseason. On that first series he looked reasonably decisive considering he and his #1 WR were working off different paragraphs if not different pages. Rough yeh, but not shaky.

On the first 3 and out the Ravens penetrated once to disrupt a Maroney run, rushed 6 and tripped (inadvertently) the open WR (who from some views may have slowed for the catch, that's for the coaches to know) causing an incompletion, and made a nice play on a bubble screen that never worked once last season when run by that WR. I saw things Cassel could have done better, but I didn't see a guaranteed 8-8 season if Brady went down - not when the game plan is altered to take advantage of Cassel's strengths.

As I've said elsewhere here, all three QBs looked solid for where they are in their development - lot's of room to get better, but in a team sport they'll have some help. Gut looked okay, but okay working against lesser competition, with lesser talent around him. Note that Gut was one-hopping some of his throws, I'm not ready to say it's arm strength, more likely it's knowing when to bring the heat and when to throw with touch. Gut was thinking his way through where Cassel was reacting from training - that puts Cassel ahead of Gut on my scorecard.

O'Connell looked very promising, and very limited. He was turned loose to just go out there and play without really trying to execute the decision trees the other QBs were using - it looked fun against the Ravens' scrubs (and recall Gut and O'Con both had some veteran OL mixed into the O-line - just look at the line surge on the TD drive, the Pats FA vet signings were out-classing those Ravens' scrub DL).

I'm going to watch some more, but I didn't see anything in that game to change the depth chart behind Tommy.

Having watched the game through once, I'm psyched about this team. The younger players all showed why Pioli went looking for them. Chad is the only one whom I still have questions about, but I'm not ready to write him off either - maybe after another series.

Personally, it doesn't really matter to me where the player was drafted. Cassell was playing in a role of the #2 QB, he struggled. Is it the end of the world? No, but his development as a 7th rounder is not that relevant, the question is "If something happened to the #1 QB could the #2 QB step in and play effective enough to not lose games for the team?" I will have to see more before I change my opinion.

O'Connell looked athletic, his role is as the #3, #4 QB. He is likely ahead of schedule compared to Cassell.

In general the offense is ahead of the defense this time of year, all of the young players on defense looked good. I thought Woods, Mayo and Crable were impressive.

Lets see how things progress in games 2, I expect a much better effort from the O Line and the QBs.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I cut & pasted Patriots Planet's AWTE's remarks for this defensive series in here when I was working this up at Planet and have kidnapped them as the basis for my own notes - they're in italics (See Deus Irae's post at #50 for a link to the original).

Raven's Ball

1st & 10: Pats in basic Cover 2. Mayo had a nice read here but was tackled in the hole by an o-lineman who took a poor angle on him (no call). Pats look to be playing a little 1 gap 3-4 here. Something they did here and there against SD in the AFCC Game. Kudos to Woods and Warren for turning the RB back inside with good edge play in a 3 on 2 blocking battle. Woods was actually playing two steps back off the line. Mayo trips up the RB as he is being tackled by the OL.

2nd & 7: Man 2 (stick) The CBs were in man on the #1s. The rest of the coverage was zone. Seymour just took this play over. Wood had nice flat coverage and there is a nice look at Teddy playing the hook zone. The only thing to add is Sey not only hurried the throw, he also drew offensive holding. The beast is back.

2nd and 17 Screen vs a soft zone for a short PU. Pats in a 4-3 little nickel/big dime with Lewis Sanders at NB, Tank in for Tedy, Wilfork is out (perhaps we'll need to call it 7.5% sales tax package or just a 4-3 attax). Meriweather gets up there quickly on the screen and beats the blockers to force Rice outside where the rest of the troops are there to force him out of bounds.

3rd & 11: Pats back in man 2 out of their Dime. Tank Williams is in as a Dime backer. Sanders had decent man coverage but a great throw and catch makes the pick-up on the in cut. The Ravens kept 6 in to block 4, sending the 3 WR and a RB into the pattern. Mason slides down to make the low and away catch and gets up limping after his slide/Spann's tackle. He's done for the day and Bryant goes out after this series.

1st & 10: Woods has nice coverage here. A jam would have made it better. Woods was again playing two steps off the line. The WR comes in motion inside to the slot, then screens Woods who actually is in an intersection with the TE releasing inside and the FB flaring into the flat. Woods did get a hand on the TE before trailing the FB and making the tackle - I think with more game planning he might have been more ready for that traffic circle. Ray Rice executes a nice cut block on Ty to get his hands down and clear the throwing lane for Boller.

2nd & 6: Mayo does nice work here stacking & shedding to make the tackle. He takes the ball carrier back w/some force as well. Meriweather came down to the line over the slot WR and crashed in when he read run. Bryant also shows a willingness to come up and mix into the interior crush. Randy Cross claims Mayo "just scraped off the pile for the tackle," watching the play instead of talking would have been nice.

2nd & 4: Pats back in Man 2. Nice tight coverage all around here. Boller had no one to throw to. Seymour destroyed the pocket again leading to a strip sack and fumble recovery. The replay shows a little of what Tank could have brought to this defense as he maintains tight man coverage on a RB down the middle of the field. Baltimore had to take a timeout before the play. Pats are in their "attax" package, though AD and Pierre have swapped sides, which is why Sey's pressure forced Boller into AD for the strip sack. Sey got to Boller forcing him to pull down and run before I got to 3-mississippi.

As has been kicked around, Tank's loss impacts the "attax" package. CB Lewis Sanders (6'1" 210), Rodney (6'1" 220), and James Sanders (5'10" 210) would seem to be the best three to fill the hybrid S/LB role with Tank gone. Kelly Washington might not have the defensive experience, but he wouldn't be a bad choice to try to cross-train in that role at 6'3" 215. Sam Aiken too if he comes back healthy.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Based on what I saw during the broadcast (with some limited hightlights as well) it seemed that Cassel's footwork and delivery were out of whack...either rushed or just somehow messed up. I've always liked his fundamentals but always thought he moved slowly in the backfield. Maybe he was trying to work on speeding up his pace (and the Ravens pressure and questionable protection didn't help), but the results were uneven at best. Not drawing conclusions based on a handful of snaps but it is something I will be watching in the upcoming games.



I was actually pleasantly surprised with O'Connell's fundamentals. Under no circumstances should he see the field this year, but he seems to be responding well to the coaching thrown his way. The sideline throw to Ventrone was a quality NFL play. In the end zone, scrambling under pressure...a perfect situation to forget everything you've learned in camp. Instead, O'Connell kept his legs under him, squared his shoulders and threw a strong and accurate pass. As you say, very promising but not ready to drink from the firehose quite yet.

I'm not great on footwork/technique, but I do look for the QB to set his feet and step into his target whenever possible. Cassel did okay.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Personally, it doesn't really matter to me where the player was drafted. Cassell was playing in a role of the #2 QB, he struggled. Is it the end of the world? No, but his development as a 7th rounder is not that relevant, the question is "If something happened to the #1 QB could the #2 QB step in and play effective enough to not lose games for the team?" I will have to see more before I change my opinion.

O'Connell looked athletic, his role is as the #3, #4 QB. He is likely ahead of schedule compared to Cassell.

In general the offense is ahead of the defense this time of year, all of the young players on defense looked good. I thought Woods, Mayo and Crable were impressive.

Lets see how things progress in games 2, I expect a much better effort from the O Line and the QBs.

No worries being in disagreement, BB will settle it for us.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Watching the Cassel interception: For what it's worth, Randy Cross is saying the route "should have been snapped off." Cassel took a 3 step drop, set and fired a frozen rope like he expected Jackson to stop. FWIW, the other receivers in the pattern all appear to be breaking their routes off at the same depth as the interception occurred - it's not looking good for Chad. On the positive side, he did appear to be the only open option.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Glad you're back Box. Being critical is all well and good. Being reasoned is a whole other ballgame.

How quickly they forget that Cassel looked every bit as impressive (if not moreso given his draft position) than O'Connell back in 2005 when he effectively displaced Rohan. They have also forgotten what Rohan looked like running this offense including the first team in pre season... I haven't.

O'Connell was sent out there with the admonition that if things broke down he could run a little. Like most athletic young QB's in that situation, he ran a lot. As I recall the buzz on Cassel after his similarly exciting first pre season performances had BB quipping that it was a little early to order his bust for Canton...

All three of the backup QB's can out scramble Brady. For whatever that is worth. Cassel was sent out there with a very different and specific and regimented assignment. Fill in for Brady in a circumstance (and facing a tough opponent) they did not wish to expose the franchise to. Yet they needed someone to run the offense as scripted while Josh test flew some weapons and scenarios and groupings. They were running Maroney predictably (and precious few starters) just to shake off the rust. They were testing Chad in game action to see how he performs at speed facing obstacles they can't replicate in camp.

Gutz was in to see if he's progressed or regressed. Looked like more regression than progression. Based on that one evening's performance alone he would make the PS. But he will have 3 more shots and making that a tougher call. It would take exceptional performances in the next three games (coupled with abyssmal performances by Cassel with largely first teamers at his disposal) to remotely envision him bumping Cassel off the roster.

All in all it was just a small piece of valuable flim Bill will add to his analysis of how each of his players has been performing in TC and mini camps and OTA's and in general since the spring.