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Ras-I Dowling

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by mgteich, Feb 1, 2013.

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  1. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    We lose $83K of cap money if we cut him this year. We lose $586K of cap money if we cut him next year.

    It seems that as long as he is worth $500K, he should be kept. He is worth that as our fourth, often inactive, corner.

    Having been injured twice, I don't expect him to be worth his original draft choice. That means nothing at this point. We are dealing with the present. Is he worth a roster spot as a bottom of the roster player? I think that, if healthy, the answer is yes.
  2. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

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    I've had high hopes for Dowling for two years, but him returning to being a contributing member of the team would be borderline unprecedented at this point. Especially considering he was losing his place on the depth chart even before the injury. OTOH, I can't think of a high draft pick Patriot who suffered through two injury-plagued or disappointing seasons and then turned it around. It just doesn't happen often in the NFL.

    But I pray to the football gods he is the exception to the rule. Our secondary could really use him developing and being the big, long CB we wanted him to be.

    Either way, I doubt the $$ will be a factor. Certainly not next year. He'll make the roster if he earns a spot, he won't if he doesn't, regardless of the cap situation. Belichick doesn't keep guys around just b/c of draft status.
  3. TyronePoole

    TyronePoole Banned

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    I don't ever recall BB cutting a highish draft pick simply for being injury prone. Crable got more time to prove himself and Dowling has already shown more than he did. Plus secondary is still a weakness. He gets at least 1 more year imo.
  4. Brady_to_Moss

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    #95 Jersey

    pure high grade glass
  5. fnordcircle

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    I love this board. Like I love surprised diarrhea.

    I remember getting **** because I was saying people were rushing to proclaim Dowling a shutdown corner after one solid game in 2011 (against Miami, I think)

    Now I imagine I'm going to get **** because I think you guys are closing the door on Dowling too quickly. He might still be able to turn into a quality starting corner this season so unless there's a bona fide better CB more worth the roster spot I don't know why anyone would want to get rid of him just yet.

    His injuries are a concern, no doubt, but Spikes had similar issues getting and staying on the field to start his career. Hernandez and Vollmer too.
  6. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    People are closing the door on Dowling way too quickly, just like many were blowing off Vereen too early. It's silly.

    Dowling has had significant injury issues, without a doubt. But we don't know where things stand. The team chose to put him on IR. They may have decided that he needed the time off to get fully healthy for 2013. He may be damaged goods for the rest of his career. We just don't know.

    We DO know that the team thought highly enough of Dowling that they indicated he probably would have been the pick at #28 in 2011 if New Orleans hadn't given them a trade offer too good to refuse. We also know that we need at least 3 CBs who are capable of playing press-man coverage in order to have adequate depth in our secondary. No one wants to see Arrington or Coles outside, or McCourty moved between FS and CB on a weekly basis. So even if we re-sign Talib or a solid veteran FA we need another CB who can play outside. There's no reason that Dowling can't be that guy, if he can stay healthy. And if he's used in a rotation instead of relied on to be a full time starter, the wear and tear issue won't be as critical.

    Dowling could be done. Sure. His hip could never heal, he could be a walking injury report, and never get over the hurdle. But I see no reason to give up on him yet.
  7. BB4PRez

    BB4PRez Rookie

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    I wonder if Dowling can move to the other safety spot opposite McCourty

    (I understand the desire for a Rodney like player back there, but given the leagues moves regarding concusions and hits on recievers I am not sure that type of player has a future. To me a safety has to be able to cover larger recievers and TE, be fast and good in run support. I think Dowling has the physical tools but he can't seem to stay on the field. Also, like McCourty Dowling seems to have some struggles when left on an island as corner.)

    I had hopes for Dowling but at this point he is clearly headed the direction of draft bust
  8. mayoclinic

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    I've suggested that move before, and I think Dowling could be very good. My biggest question is that I think we need someone more physical and punishing, and that's not exactly Dowling's style. But if he added 5-10# and played around 210-215#, I think he might be more effective as a safety.
  9. Bravo777

    Bravo777 Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    We should keep him. But, he should change his name to Glass I Dowling.
  10. PatsWickedPissah

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    You guys are acting as if my man Glass IR broke his same fragile widdle arm not once but twice in a season.

    There's always someone whose a 2 sigma outlier in unlucky injuries. However if he's IRed again in 2013 I would conclude he's too brittle for NFL contact. Not expensive to find out.
  11. DocHoliday

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    So long as he costs more to cut than keep he can keep getting injured/IRed and Bill will wait for a quality performance.

    No reason to cut him and and take extra costs just because you're disgusted
  12. patsinthesnow

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    He deserves another year, but besides just being injury prone, it reminds to be seen if he is even a decent NFL CB.

    When you're below Sterling Moore on the depth chart and look pretty poor as a dimeback in you're 2nd year, that isn't a good sign.
  13. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Having made 1,916 posts reveal that you take a strangely avid interest in surprised diarhhea. :D

    That being said, I fully agree with you on Dowling. I'm very much looking forward to what he can add to that secondary if he can stay healthy. Why cut him?
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2013
  14. Ice_Ice_Brady

    Ice_Ice_Brady Rookie

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    Why are all of these second round defensive backs made of glass?

    Dowling
    Chung
    Wheatley

    Did these guys drop to the second round over concerns that they were too frail? It's truly amazing how all three of them can't/couldn't run twenty yards without going down. I understand injuries happen, but it's almost comical with these three. Literally every time you see them make a play, you expect to see them on the trainer's table within five minutes.
  15. ausbacker

    ausbacker Brady > Manning. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Cutting Dowling achieves nothing. He is an exceptional talent. Get him right and you'll see.
  16. Deus Irae

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    He came back last season and looked awful. The question that we can't answer is whether:

    A.) that was because he wasn't 100% or

    B.) that was because that's all he's got left post-injuries.

    If the answer is B, you can stick a fork in him right now, and it won't be premature at all.
  17. BradyFTW!

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    It's extremely unlikely that Dowling will ever do anything of note as an NFL player. That's just statistics talking. But still, what do we gain by cutting him? On the off chance that his hip is actually healed (unlikely) and that injury was the reason why he sucked last year, he's worth bringing in to camp at least. If his hip isn't better, then you can always cut him then.
  18. BradyFTW!

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    Missing one season partly because of injury, but also because there isn't a major need at your position, is one thing. Missing both of your first two seasons due to hip problems when you play the position of greatest need, maybe on the entire team... that's something else.

    I'm not saying that the Pats should cut Dowling yet, but his situation is more ominous than Vereen's ever was.
  19. Get it shawtaay

    Get it shawtaay Rookie

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    Matt Stafford was always ripped for being "injury prone" during his first two seasons. Went on IR both years, played less than a third of the games. Hasn't missed a start since.

    Dowling is a talented kid. All he has to do is heal up get on the field and he'll be fine. I have more confidence in him being a valuable contributor next season than most of the defensive role players on the roster (Cunningham, Deaderick, Fletcher, Gregory, Wilson).
  20. PittPatriot

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    I have full confidence in our front office's evaluation and drafting of defensive backs.






    Said no one ever.
  21. Deus Irae

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    Stafford got 10 starts in as a rookie, and another 3 in his sophomore season. Dowling has 2 starts in that same two year period, and has been active for 8 games total, I believe.

    Stafford showed real talent before going down in those years, especially in year 2. Dowling has shown essentially nothing. At this point, if Dowling even gives the team a CB4, it's gravy.
  22. Brady_to_Moss

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    over or under 5 games for him this year? I will take the under
  23. ausbacker

    ausbacker Brady > Manning. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Bulldust. In limited exposure Dowling showed he has some ability. He also has size. That isn't coachable.
  24. Deus Irae

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    He's had two starts, did nothing to set the world on fire, and then was lost for the year. He then returned after missing most of that rookie year, as a backup, and he looked awful, and then was lost for the year, again. You're welcome to believe that showed something far beyond him actually being able to step foot on a football field if you wish. I don't think we saw what you think we saw.
  25. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I agree. That is why I project him to be our #4 corner, if he is healthy.

  26. betterthanthealternative

    betterthanthealternative Rookie

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    What we are evaluating is his potential value if healthy. If he's not healthy, he won't play, so it is a non issue. If he is healthy, then we have a preseason and two regular season games on which to evaluate him. In those games, he was very good for a rookie.

    Hence, any scientific analysis would suggest that there is a chance he will be very good, albeit through a small sample size. That's the evaluation to be made here. People talking about how likely he is to be healthy or not are just pulling an answer out of the sky (unless there is someone on this board with a personal relationship with the guy).
  27. Deus Irae

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    Your post makes almost no sense, particularly in light of what little we have actually seen and the content of the O.P..
  28. ausbacker

    ausbacker Brady > Manning. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    He was just fine and he'll be a fine DB if he can stay healthy. I'm not questioning his talent but his ability to stay on the field.
  29. Schmo

    Schmo Rookie

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    Low risk, high reward.... I say sign the bea.......... what? He's under contract? It's a position of need? We're talking about cutting him?

    I honestly trust that you have a better eye than I do as far as these things go, but I could've sworn I saw flashes from him both this year and last. :confused2: But as someone mentioned, Crable got 3 years (well, a chance at a 3rd), Dowling will get 3.
  30. Deus Irae

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    Well, unless Jason's got the numbers wrong, he's not going to get cut for savings, because he'll be a negative savings of $83,569 if cut. That should get him into the offseason program, and I'm sure they'll take it from there. They're thin at the position, so mgteich's thought of him staying on as a CB4 are certainly not farfetched, and then the hope will be that he plays about a million times better than what we saw last season. Cutting him next year is where the cap savings (over $1 million) would kick in.

    Of course, they could theoretically designate him as their post-june cut for cap purposes...
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