Ras-I Dowling

[zipster9]

Some presume that a player who has been injured twice and has missed almost all of his first two seasons is much less likely to be a major contributor. These folks will feel that we are lucky if we get any contribution, and are hoping for him to be our #3 or #4 corner.

Others believe that experience doesn't matter and that players come back from injuries as strong as they were before the injuries. These folks consider Dowling as good a prospect as he was coming out of college, perhaps better since he showed some abilities in his first two preseasons.

Debating the issue doesn't seem to help. Both sides consider that other to be unreasonable.

I am of the first group. I think that it is exceedingly rare for a player to miss his first two seasons because of injuries and become a major contributor to the defense. Dowling's situation reminds me of a linebacker we once hoped would be a major contributor.

RasI had a history of injuries while playing in college. Not just 1 or 2 injuries, but many. That alone should ring the alarm bell. Yet, Patriots so-called "scouts" did not recognize this or ignored this. That's why I do not blame RasI, rather, blame the Patriots' awful secondary scouts. They should be fired, and replaced.

 

[Ring 6]

RasI had a history of injuries while playing in college. Not just 1 or 2 injuries, but many. That alone should ring the alarm bell. Yet, Patriots so-called "scouts" did not recognize this or ignored this. That's why I do not blame RasI, rather, blame the Patriots' awful secondary scouts. They should be fired, and replaced.

This is the kind of mental diarrhea that makes this board so hard to read.
You are taking the position that you are a better judge of Dowlings injuries, their healing, probablity of recurrance, effect on his ability to play in the NFL than the professional scouts, personnel evaluators of the Patriots and Bill Belichick. That they should be fired, because you clearly would have known not to draft this guy because he would be injured, despite the fact that every other team would have drafted him right about in that slot, need notwithstanding.

Further you are saying that scouting, evaluation and drafting is accountable for drafting players that then go on to not get injured, or the injury is their fault. As if the future injury was there on film to be seen and they just lack the talent to see it, unlike you, who knew all along.

Should the scouts that scouting Gronk be fired too?

 

[mgteich]

I trust that you have a sports medicine practice and have made thorough medical evaluations
of Dowling as 32 teams did before he was drafted. Surely you are not rejecting players merely because they have an injury history. That fact is factored in when folks are drafted. Obviously, you would have not drafted Gronkowski who many of us wanted in the first, but lasted because of his injury.

RasI had a history of injuries while playing in college. Not just 1 or 2 injuries, but many. That alone should ring the alarm bell. Yet, Patriots so-called "scouts" did not recognize this or ignored this. That's why I do not blame RasI, rather, blame the Patriots' awful secondary scouts. They should be fired, and replaced.

 

[RayClay]

I love this board. Like I love surprised diarrhea.

I remember getting **** because I was saying people were rushing to proclaim Dowling a shutdown corner after one solid game in 2011 (against Miami, I think)

Now I imagine I'm going to get **** because I think you guys are closing the door on Dowling too quickly. He might still be able to turn into a quality starting corner this season so unless there's a bona fide better CB more worth the roster spot I don't know why anyone would want to get rid of him just yet.

His injuries are a concern, no doubt, but Spikes had similar issues getting and staying on the field to start his career. Hernandez and Vollmer too.

Yes, manic depressive is the preferred reaction here [apparently the worst lineman of all time last September is now as good as Vollmer too].

If only there were some events in the weeks leading up to the season, even a few "games" that didn't count where they could evaluate players.

Until then, I guess they'll have to decide based on messageboard posts in February.

 

[Ivan]

Some presume that a player who has been injured twice and has missed almost all of his first two seasons is much less likely to be a major contributor. These folks will feel that we are lucky if we get any contribution, and are hoping for him to be our #3 or #4 corner.

Others believe that experience doesn't matter and that players come back from injuries as strong as they were before the injuries. These folks consider Dowling as good a prospect as he was coming out of college, perhaps better since he showed some abilities in his first two preseasons.

Debating the issue doesn't seem to help. Both sides consider that other to be unreasonable.

I am of the first group. I think that it is exceedingly rare for a player to miss his first two seasons because of injuries and become a major contributor to the defense. Dowling's situation reminds me of a linebacker we once hoped would be a major contributor.

Obviously i haven't done the statistical analysis of this but I would definitely bet that any comprehensive analysis of players who have missed either their first full year in the NFL, or their first 2 seasons would show that very few go on to have successful careers. My basis for this is simply as a Patriots fan and a draft fan, and watching prospects go through their organization over the years. More often than not the prospects who get hurt and miss major developmental time in their first year or two end up having marginal careers in the NFL, if any career at all.

 

[mgteich]

As I posted, I agree with you.

Obviously i haven't done the statistical analysis of this but I would definitely bet that any comprehensive analysis of players who have missed either their first full year in the NFL, or their first 2 seasons would show that very few go on to have successful careers. My basis for this is simply as a Patriots fan and a draft fan, and watching prospects go through their organization over the years. More often than not the prospects who get hurt and miss major developmental time in their first year or two end up having marginal careers in the NFL, if any career at all.

 

[Ivan]

As I posted, I agree with you.

I'm sure there are exceptions and i obviously hope I-Dowling will turn out to be one of them, it would certainly be a big boost for the Patriots defensive backfield if he somehow defied the odds and turned into significant contributor for their secondary next season, I'm just not going to bank on it in any kind of way.

 

[Urgent]

Lot's of opinion here based on limited data.

What one piece of data do we have?

In 2011, coming out of a training camp where he missed a lot of time as a rookie, Ras-I Dowling made a cornerback roster featuring Devin McCourty (tremendous rookie year), Leigh Bodden (just signed to a big contract), Kyle Arrington, and Antwaun Molden. No surprise as a high pick.

He then surprised most of us by starting the opening game.

That piece of data is that Bill Belichick and the defensive coaching staff thought, although he missed a lot of training camp, he had earned a starting position in his first game.

He then helped make Miami's Chad Henne to over 400 yards.

Clearly Belichick saw something he liked. Or at least hated less than Bodden, Arrington, Molden, and Butler (late roster cut).

We never really saw him make a play, and the sand may be mostly through the hourglass on this one. But there is that one point of data we have to consider.

 

[Avenger]

RasI had a history of injuries while playing in college. Not just 1 or 2 injuries, but many. That alone should ring the alarm bell. Yet, Patriots so-called "scouts" did not recognize this or ignored this. That's why I do not blame RasI, rather, blame the Patriots' awful secondary scouts. They should be fired, and replaced.

Prior to his senior year he hadn't missed a game due to injury since high school.

 

[EJ Blitz]

I've seen Dowling's college highlights more than I've seen Dowling.

 

[Triumph]

Lot's of opinion here based on limited data.

What one piece of data do we have?

In 2011, coming out of a training camp where he missed a lot of time as a rookie, Ras-I Dowling made a cornerback roster featuring Devin McCourty (tremendous rookie year), Leigh Bodden (just signed to a big contract), Kyle Arrington, and Antwaun Molden. No surprise as a high pick.

He then surprised most of us by starting the opening game.

That piece of data is that Bill Belichick and the defensive coaching staff thought, although he missed a lot of training camp, he had earned a starting position in his first game.

He then helped make Miami's Chad Henne to over 400 yards.

Clearly Belichick saw something he liked. Or at least hated less than Bodden, Arrington, Molden, and Butler (late roster cut).

We never really saw him make a play, and the sand may be mostly through the hourglass on this one. But there is that one point of data we have to consider.

Its rare for the Pats to give up on a high draft pick no matter how little production has been seen in year 1 or year 2. Year 3 however is where the rubber meets the road. Dowling doesnt take up a roster spot on IR, but this is becoming a farce.

Im concerned that if Dowling does somehow make it through camp and on to the 53, that he will eventually get injured and the Pats will be right back where they started.

 

[Gumby]

Lot's of opinion here based on limited data.

What one piece of data do we have?

In 2011, coming out of a training camp where he missed a lot of time as a rookie, Ras-I Dowling made a cornerback roster featuring Devin McCourty (tremendous rookie year), Leigh Bodden (just signed to a big contract), Kyle Arrington, and Antwaun Molden. No surprise as a high pick.

He then surprised most of us by starting the opening game.

That piece of data is that Bill Belichick and the defensive coaching staff thought, although he missed a lot of training camp, he had earned a starting position in his first game.

He then helped make Miami's Chad Henne to over 400 yards.

Clearly Belichick saw something he liked. Or at least hated less than Bodden, Arrington, Molden, and Butler (late roster cut).

We never really saw him make a play, and the sand may be mostly through the hourglass on this one. But there is that one point of data we have to consider.

Ok, I'll play...... Lets consider.
I went to the espn game log; because my subjective memory recollection is that i thought after that game we had FOUND A SHUT-DOWN CORNER.

Here is what I found:

1Q Mia 3 Drives 15 plays (excluding punts) Dowling only mentioned on very first play of game.

1st and 10 at MIA 16(Shotgun) C.Henne pass deep left to B.Marshall to MIA 41 for 25 yards (R.Dowling) [R.Ninkovich].

2Q Mia 4 drives 15 plays. no mention of dowling, but his man is mentioned. might assume he had coverage, but I think not as says R side.

1st and 10 at MIA 33 C.Henne pass incomplete deep right to B.Marshall.

3Q 3 drives 15 plays - no mention of Dowling, but can figure/assume Marshall to the L is Dowling's man.

2nd and 2 at NE 2 C.Henne pass incomplete short right to B.Marshall (D.McCourty).
3rd and 2 at NE 2 C.Henne pass incomplete short left to B.Marshall

4Q 5 drives 33 plays. Dowling mentioned once giving up 5 yards and 3 more mentions of incompletes to Dowlings side of field.

1st and 10 at MIA 22(Shotgun) C.Henne pass short left to R.Bush to MIA 27 for 5 yards (R.Dowling).
1st and 10 at NE 25(No Huddle, Shotgun) C.Henne pass incomplete deep left to E.Gates.
3rd and 7 at NE 30(Shotgun) C.Henne pass incomplete short left to D.Bess.
1st and 10 at MIA 46(No Huddle, Shotgun) C.Henne pass incomplete deep left to E.Gates.

What you don't see above from lookng at WHOLE LOG is HOW OFTEN McCourty's NAME CAME UP and HOW OFTEN THE RIGHT SIDE was being targeted by Henne.
NOTE: Game stats: McCourty 10 tackles - 2 PD / Dowling 2 Tackles-0 PDs.

Henne was staying away from Dowling - either cause he just CANT THROW LEFT; or because DOWLING HAD COVERAGE.

Also the above posters' vague accusation of the 400 yards given up by Pats appeared to be a subtle slam on Dowling. But remember that this game was 38-24. 2 TD win with the Pats leading from mid-3Q on (and would have been from 2Q onward if TB didnt throw a PICK early on in 3Q and give Mia an exceptionally short field.) 160 some yards were given up in 4Q garbage time with the Pats up by 3 scores.

All in all; if you have only ONE DATA POINT to judge by (per the poster)- I would say this is a flat out SUCCESS for Dowling.

 

[Ring 6]

Ok, I'll play...... Lets consider.
I went to the espn game log; because my subjective memory recollection is that i thought after that game we had FOUND A SHUT-DOWN CORNER.

Here is what I found:

1Q Mia 3 Drives 15 plays (excluding punts) Dowling only mentioned on very first play of game.


2Q Mia 4 drives 15 plays. no mention of dowling, but his man is mentioned. might assume he had coverage, but I think not as says R side.


3Q 3 drives 15 plays - no mention of Dowling, but can figure/assume Marshall to the L is Dowling's man.


4Q 5 drives 33 plays. Dowling mentioned once giving up 5 yards and 3 more mentions of incompletes to Dowlings side of field.


What you don't see above from lookng at WHOLE LOG is HOW OFTEN McCourty's NAME CAME UP and HOW OFTEN THE RIGHT SIDE was being targeted by Henne.
NOTE: Game stats: McCourty 10 tackles - 2 PD / Dowling 2 Tackles-0 PDs.

Henne was staying away from Dowling - either cause he just CANT THROW LEFT; or because DOWLING HAD COVERAGE.

Also the above posters' vague accusation of the 400 yards given up by Pats appeared to be a subtle slam on Dowling. But remember that this game was 38-24. 2 TD win with the Pats leading from mid-3Q on (and would have been from 2Q onward if TB didnt throw a PICK early on in 3Q and give Mia an exceptionally short field.) 160 some yards were given up in 4Q garbage time with the Pats up by 3 scores.

All in all; if you have only ONE DATA POINT to judge by (per the poster)- I would say this is a flat out SUCCESS for Dowling.

Thats an interesting way to give credit to a corner when the opposing poor QB threw for 400 yards.

 

[Off The Grid]

Why is it so difficult for you to acknowledge that a guy makes a strong, thoughtful, insightful, and well-reasoned point that you happen to disagree with??

OTG, I'll be asking you to weigh in during future conversations I have with my wife, if that's agreeable.

Honored, Sir!!

May I assume that you'll be furnishing me with a full complement of Protective Gear??

 

[Triumph]

Its bad when you cant make it through the combine without getting hurt.


NFL | Ras-I Dowling injury update
Tue, 01 Mar 2011 07:42:53 -0800
Updating a previous item, Virginia CB Ras-I Dowling (hamstring) did not run his second 40-yard dash at the NFL Scouting Combine Tuesday, March 1, due to what was announced as a strained right hamstring, according to Frank Tadych, of NFL.com. Dowling ran a 4.40 in his first run, the fourth-fastest among the first group of defensive backs.

Read more: Ras-I Dowling latest news and rumors
​

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

 

[condon84]

One of the worst picks in the BB era. Coming out of college, every draft expert who've done research on this guy said he was made of glass and could break often. What the hell were our scouts doing when they did their homework on this guy to say we should pick him that high.

 

[BTTA]

Prior to his senior year he hadn't missed a game due to injury since high school.

Please, this conversation is no place for factual data. Several posters have an emotional need to believe that Dowling was oft-injured prior to becoming a pro, so they can sit in their chairs and post catchy phrases that include the word "glass." You are ruining their fun.

 

[Triumph]

One of the worst picks in the BB era. Coming out of college, every draft expert who've done research on this guy said he was made of glass and could break often. What the hell were our scouts doing when they did their homework on this guy to say we should pick him that high.

At the time, Al Groh was the head coach of U of Virginia and gave BB the heads up on Dowling.

IIRC, Groh ran a defense much like NEs, so one of the positives was suppose to be that the transition from NCAA to NFL would be more seamless.

 

[Triumph]

He'll be changing his name to Ras IR if this continues.

Ras-I Dowling: The Patriots