"Please explain how the Pats, Steelers, and Ravens have "more talent" and where"

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Deus Irae, Aug 1, 2012.

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  1. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I saw this on JI, and I thought it would be an interesting way to kill a bit of time. Let's take the Ray Ray Challenge:

    Jets Insider.com Forums - View Single Post - This is the most talented Jets team in 30 years...

    For the sake of some brevity and conciseness, let's limit it to projected starters and key 'subs' (i.e. nickel backs).
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2012
  2. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    #12 Jersey

    Re: Let's take the Ray Ray Challenge

    Since I don't post over there once training camp starts unless the Pats are playing the Jets, I will have to take the challenge here:

    QB: Brady>Sanchez
    WR1: Welker>Holmes
    WR2: Lloyd>Hill (at least until proven otherwise)
    TE: Gronk>Keller
    RB: Greene>Ridley (at least until proven otherwise)
    LT: Ferguson>Solder (at least until proven otherwise)
    LG: Mankins>Moore
    C: Mangold>Connolly
    RG: Waters>Slauson
    RT: Vollmer>Hunter
    (Note: left out TE2/FB because the Pats use a two TE set while the jets use a two RB set)

    DT: Wilkerson>Love
    NT: Wilfork>Pouha
    DE: Ninkovich>Coples (at least until proven otherwise)
    OLB: Mayo>Pace
    ILB: Harris>Spikes
    OLB: Scott>Hightower (at least until proven otherwise)
    CB: Revis>>>>McCourty
    S: ??Bell vs. Gregory???
    S: Landry>Chung (although Chung is more likely to stay on the field)
    CB: Cromartie>Dowling (at least until proven otherwise)
    Nickel: Arrington>Wilson

    Note: The Pats look to be moving to a 4 man front while the Jets are still a 3-4 base. Hard to compare some positions because of it.

    Kicker: Gostkowski>Folk
    Punter: Mesko>Conley

    I put (at least until proven otherwise) next to battles where one of the two are fairly unproven or a rookie.
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2012
  3. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Let's take the Ray Ray Challenge


    1. QB
    2. RB
    3. TE
    4. LT
    5. LG
    6. RG
    7. RT
    8. Flanker
    9. Split End
    10. Slot receiver
    11. NT
    12. Just about every LB
    13. LS

    And I think that's being generous.
  4. sieglo

    sieglo In the Starting Line-Up

    BB & staff > Sexy Rexy & staff.
  5. NEGoldenAge

    NEGoldenAge Banned

    Re: Let's take the Ray Ray Challenge

    Good breakdown.

    Hightower won't exclusively be an OLB, he will be all over the field. If he is half of how good I think he'll be, he'll be better than Scott. Scott was never all that great and is certainly in decline. I wouldn't put Landry over Chung either.

    The Pats clearly have better starting talent overall, but once you start looking at the non-starters, the Pats are far and away a much more talented team.
  6. TyronePoole

    TyronePoole Banned

    Re: Let's take the Ray Ray Challenge

    Pretty fair but Landry is not better than Chung, Gaffney > any other WR they have and Hernandez is still talent that the Jets don't have whether they have a scrub filling his role or not.
  7. Sicilian

    Sicilian Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    Re: Let's take the Ray Ray Challenge

    I was going to go through each position, but it was getting tedious. I'll sum up:

    Pats have the edge in:


    Jets have the edge in:

    LT - Until Solder proves himself over there
    DE (base)

    I rank the rest as a push:

    RB - Pats have more potential in their group, but they're unproven
  8. Haley

    Haley In the Starting Line-Up

    No Jersey Selected

    I would just like to point out that as soon as you need your starting CB to play wide receiver as well, you might have a problem.
  9. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    #12 Jersey

    Re: Let's take the Ray Ray Challenge

    A couple of things:

    - I am being consistent in that rookies are unknown and I won't rank them ahead of a established veteran until they prove it. Scott is average at best. So Hightower doesn't need to show much to tilt the balance of that comparison in his direction.
    - I think when Landry is 100%, he is a stud vs. the run and close to the line. It is a coin flip in my mind although Chung is far more likely to stay on the field. I am trying to be objective and maybe I am being too objective that I don't give the Pats' players enough credit.
  10. Patriot 37

    Patriot 37 On the Game Day Roster

    He starts his arguement "the Pats without Brady". I can't image someone on this board being so stupid to post "the Pats secondary is better than Jets" and then starting the arguement "the Jets secondary without Revis".

    Jets Fans are retarded.
  11. Big-T

    Big-T Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    #51 Jersey

    Poor RayRay, he really does need some help.

    Well let's see...

    QB x1, RB x1, WR x2, TE x2, OT x2, DL x3, LB x2, S x2, P x1

    QB x1, RB x2, WR x3, TE x1, DL x2, LB x3, S x2, K x1

    QB x2, WR x4, TE x4, OT x1, OG x2, DL x1, LB x2, K x1, P x1

    So I make that:
    Ravens 16
    Steelers 15
    Patriots 18
    Better players than the Jets

    Patriots, Steelers & Ravens also have better coaching staff.
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2012
  12. TyronePoole

    TyronePoole Banned

    here's another one:

    Basically we're at the point now where other fans just assume that the Pats aren't deep/don't have talent because Brady and BB are so good.

    Brady on the Jets squad would be somewhere around the Pats circa 2005-2006.
  13. Sciz

    Sciz PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    For starters, the Pats have the better QB and at least 4 receiving options better than anything on the Jets. That alone is huge.
  14. Ice_Ice_Brady

    Ice_Ice_Brady In the Starting Line-Up

    The Patriots will cut 10 players that will wind up on other team's rosters. The Jets will be looking for ways to pump up the bottom players on their roster, as Rex will be looking to give them confidence, as they are not NFL-caliber players.

    This is the truth. Of all the things Jets fans say, the depth issue is the most laughable. The Jets have never had much depth, as they are top heavy in their spending and drafting.
  15. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    #12 Jersey

    I'd like to hear where the Jets are deeper at most spots than the Pats. The Jets are woefully thin at most positions. I mean the Pats right now have the problem at WR and d-line of having so many players who can contribute that roster battles are not looking for someone to step up to take the last spot for someone to fail so that it makes it easier to cut him. Cromartie isn't going to play both ways because the Jets are loaded at WR.

    The Jets trading away so many draft picks over the years have made their squad painfully thin at a lot of positions especially on offense. Like last year, they are one injury away on the o-line falling apart. They have zero depth at WR and TE. Their safety position isn't very deep especially with Landry being an injury risk.
  16. ivanvamp

    ivanvamp In the Starting Line-Up

    I think if you put Brady on the Jets and Sanchez on the Patriots, the Jets probably win the division. Their defense, though not as good as it once was, is still better than New England's, IMO, at least in terms of yards allowed. They have a really good group of RBs and they have a very good group of receivers. Don't we seriously think that Brady would go crazy with Holmes, Hill, and Keller as his main targets? I do. But YMMV.

    But of course the Jets *don't* have Brady, the Patriots do. The Jets have Sanchez and Tebow at QB and they will have to deal with the mess that will present the team.
  17. Sicilian

    Sicilian Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    See, this is the wrong argument. It shouldn't be "Put Brady on the Jets and Sanchez on the Pats." It should be "Give both teams Brady" or "Give both teams Sanchez". The idea is that with equality at QB, the rest of the team is either better or worse in overall talent.

    In that scenario (both teams having Brady), I see the Pats winning 13-14 and the Jets winning anywhere from 10-12, based mostly on the sheer vastness of weapons at Brady's disposal here.
  18. Brady_to_Moss

    Brady_to_Moss Butler Island is here PatsFans.com Supporter

    #95 Jersey

    jets about to win their 4th SB in a row this year

    Oh wait
  19. randomk1

    randomk1 In the Starting Line-Up

    #12 Jersey

    The only question that remains is who will be SB MVP? Tebow or Sanchez
  20. ivanvamp

    ivanvamp In the Starting Line-Up

    I agree completely. I was just addressing the question of what would happen if the QBs were on the other teams. Though maybe I misread what was being discussed.

    No question the Patriots have more overall talent. Only stupid Jets' fans would think otherwise.
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