Pierre Woods can become a quality starter at OLB

[DaBruinz]

Wrong again,in the only game he started he had very good stats of tackles,1 FF and 1 sack.What else do you expect from a first start LB i wonder.

Also, he played the first half too when he had good safety help in sanders and hawkins and manning scored 6 points.The drop off started with baker in safety and another guy i have never heard off. a ILB in 3-4 is bigger and need safety help for coverage .He is not a 220 LB Cata June to run like him.
I think he is going to be a good starter for us.He has learned the system and put on 15 lbs of muscle as required by the coaches to play ILB in our system but heck you want to trash him because he is not light and fast.

Satz -
You need to go back and re-watch the game because you are the one who is wrong.

http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=270121011&quarter=0

Manning and the Colts threw at Alexander 5 straight times on the last series before the half.

After the half, 2 of the 5 passes in the 1st drive were to players that Alexander was supposed to be covering.

Sanders and Hawkins were both still in the game when the Colts tied it at 21 in the 3rd quarter.

Now as for your other comments, you need a lesson in reading comprehension. I did not TRASH the guy for not being light and fast. Heck, I didn't trash the guy at all. All I said was that it was MY OPINION that the guy is a good special teamer but isn't an effective coverage LB in the NFL. BTW, I suggest you do some research because AD, one of the better LBs in coverage in the league and he weighs in at 270 lbs. So, there is no way I am "trashing Alexander for not being light and fast."

Oh, and one last thing. If BB was so confident in Alexander's abilities on the inside, why didn't we use him there in some of the regular season games after Seau went down so he'd get some game experience? Why wait until a critical game like the AFCCG to put Alexander in there? Personally, I believe it was because BB believed that Alexander would be the lesser of two evils. The Pats defense didn't do much better when they went to using TBC in the last 3rd quarter instead of Alexander.

 

[captain stone]

Interesting! I remember Mincey's comments, but I never read into them that he hadn't been working hard. I just thought that they showed a tremendous naiveté about how safe his roster spot was. Here's his quote, from a Reiss blog at the time:

"I was shocked," he said. "I felt like it was hard for me to develop and learn the system, and I didn't know they wouldn't give me time. I thought there would be a year of development."

...and Belichick:
"Jeremy worked hard. He's a tough kid," Belichick said. "I have no complaints with his effort, his toughness. He did everything we asked him to do, it just didn't work out."

My impression, then and now, was that Woods just flat beat him out. Woods was the superior athlete, and had a leg up from having played some OLB at Michigan. Mincey didn't look at all comfortable at the position.

I also seem to recall a Reiss piece which mentioned that Mincey's locker was cleared-out after he was cut. Normally, he wrote, if the team plans to sign a released player to the PS, his locker remains untouched. Seems to me that BB had no intention of attempting to re-sign him.

If BB/SP wanted to draft a DE/OLB at 191, I would have taken Ryan LaCasse instead. There were also better players available at other positions.

 

[captain stone]

Wrong again,in the only game he started he had very good stats of tackles,1 FF and 1 sack.What else do you expect from a first start LB i wonder.
I think he is going to be a good starter for us.He has learned the system and put on 15 lbs of muscle as required by the coaches to play ILB in our system but heck you want to trash him because he is not light and fast.

Most of Alexander's tackles were made downfield, after positive yardage was gained and he was blown off the ball.

Now, I want to trash him, but not because he is not light and fast, but because he is just plain no good. His position needs an upgrade, right now, such as Isaiah Kacyvenski, for example.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

What I love is that we're having exactly the argument we should be having (yeah, my kool-aid glass is half-full.)

That is, with AD, Colvin, Bruschi (even now), and Vrabel all good to go this season, we are looking at the next group of linebacking talent. So for all of us who were biting our nails as BB let that hole go relatively unfilled last year in the draft, keep in mind we have this draft to work with, as well as some prospects on staff... and of course, the thing is, we have a good starting group as is.

Enjoy the luxury, gentlemen... we argue about depth and development at the start of a season... most teams argue about glaring deficiencies. When we argue one of those, it means we're dumping on an average unit instead of one that excels.

Just your daily polyanna reminder,

PFnV

 

[cstjohn17]

It is worse than you think, the Red Sox are doing well so there really is nothing to complain about..

The lack of depth at ILB was one of the main weaknesses of the team last year. It was a known weakness during the entire offseason and little was done to address the issue. If Seau hadn't fell from the sky one of our starters would have been Beisel or Gartner. Seau played great but it was hardly a suprise that the 37 year old starting ILB would miss some time last year. When he went down all of the LBs had to play in less effective positions.

TBC became a starter at SOLB
Vrabel moved to ILB (Weakside) from WOLB
Bruschi moved to Strongside ILB from WILB
Colvin moved to Weakside OLB from SOLB

- essentially we were weaker at all 4 posiitons

I expect some ILBs to be added via the draft. My dilema is that in round 1 most of the good LBs are not big enough to play SILB.
- (Pos., Beason, Timmons) are all WILBs
- other possibilities for SILBs in the draft are - Harris, Willis (he will be gone) Bradley, etc., maybe Bishop, etc.

This would leave Bruschi at SILB, a position he was exposed at in 2007. Maybe he bulks for the role but it seems like he is a better fit at WILB.

As far as Woods if he can become as effective as TBC (spot starter, ST contributor) we will be really lucky. I remember the same talk about Claridge being the solution, or Beisel or Alexander. Right now Woods is about 50th on the depth chart and is a bad training camp away from being cut.

What I love is that we're having exactly the argument we should be having (yeah, my kool-aid glass is half-full.)

That is, with AD, Colvin, Bruschi (even now), and Vrabel all good to go this season, we are looking at the next group of linebacking talent. So for all of us who were biting our nails as BB let that hole go relatively unfilled last year in the draft, keep in mind we have this draft to work with, as well as some prospects on staff... and of course, the thing is, we have a good starting group as is.

Enjoy the luxury, gentlemen... we argue about depth and development at the start of a season... most teams argue about glaring deficiencies. When we argue one of those, it means we're dumping on an average unit instead of one that excels.

Just your daily polyanna reminder,

PFnV

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Fine. A little run support for DiceK and I'm happy then.

PFnV:bricks:

 

[Ochmed Jones]

I thought Woods beat out Mincey because Mincey was very poor on ST.

 

[Michigan Dave]

Yes, he was inconsistant in '05, and then didn't seem all that great to start the '06 season. I know he finished out the season playing good/decent, but he never lived up to the hype. People thought Burgess was going to be one of Michigan's best players, and I can think of a few who were better on that defense.

We're on the same page when it comes to Woodley, though. I really like him, and I have him as the best OLB who should be around for their picks. I almost can't understand why some don't see it. I've also heard the Jets have interest in Woodley, and that would kill me.

I think a big part of the problem was not redshirting Prescott in 2003. He was the #1 DB in the country coming into college on a lot of boards, and made the immediate switch to LB on a deep team. He played special teams, but the learning curve and conditioning for the new position were difficult for him. He was really scratching the surface on what he could do in 2005, and last year really performed well. Watch Shawn Crable this year. Burgess could've redshirted and come back this year as a 5th year senior, been "the man" on a good defense with Crable, and had soaring draft status.

I think it's tough to make Burgess in this draft. A lot of upside, great athleticism, but more unproven than you'd like out of a senior.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Nothing horrible, but he was very, very immature.

When I was young and immature, I was also young and immature - so I'm not going to point fingers at the guy. I'm glad he's getting a 2nd chance and wants to make it count.

As far as the coach - thank goodness for coaches like that who are willing to bench a guy, accept the consequences in losing games, but turning out someone who will hopefully be a better member of society for the discipline.

 

[Michigan Dave]

When I was young and immature, I was also young and immature - so I'm not going to point fingers at the guy. I'm glad he's getting a 2nd chance and wants to make it count.

As far as the coach - thank goodness for coaches like that who are willing to bench a guy, accept the consequences in losing games, but turning out someone who will hopefully be a better member of society for the discipline.

I know it's easy for me to rag on Ohio State, but I have serious concerns with what Tressel does there, and his priorities. Say what you want about John Cooper, but he ran a clean program. You know what teams are dirty or not based on conversations with recruits. Ohio State was NEVER dirty. But aside from that, the Clarett handling was probably the single worst example of handling a kid I've ever seen (given the end result.) Clarett needed a strict, parenting coach. It was evident from when he was recruited. He pulled plugs in the media room as a recruit at Michigan Stadium in 2001 while on his visit. He was clearly emotionally immature. We've had players- good players- worse off than Clarett when they entered the program, and Lloyd has taken it upon himself to bust their asses. You screw up, you pay the consequences. Hell, I had a minor screwup and had to pay the consequences. In 2002, when Clarett blew up and became basically bigger than college football in the media's eyes, many at Michigan saw the end coming for him. We knew we'd only have to face him once, because the bottom line at Ohio State had been shifted to winning, first and foremost. Clarett screwed up, made it worse, then made the mistake of mentioning Tressel. He was immediately cut off, academic support lost, and his immaturity and poor decision making worsened. He was doomed once he was kicked out of the OSU family.

Say what you want about Lloyd Carr, and I for one am annoyed at our record against OSU and in bowls of late, but I know he always had our best interests in mind as people. I can't say that for all programs.

 

[Crowpointer]

I know it's easy for me to rag on Ohio State, but I have serious concerns with what Tressel does there, and his priorities. Say what you want about John Cooper, but he ran a clean program. You know what teams are dirty or not based on conversations with recruits. Ohio State was NEVER dirty. But aside from that, the Clarett handling was probably the single worst example of handling a kid I've ever seen (given the end result.) Clarett needed a strict, parenting coach. It was evident from when he was recruited. He pulled plugs in the media room as a recruit at Michigan Stadium in 2001 while on his visit. He was clearly emotionally immature. We've had players- good players- worse off than Clarett when they entered the program, and Lloyd has taken it upon himself to bust their asses. You screw up, you pay the consequences. Hell, I had a minor screwup and had to pay the consequences. In 2002, when Clarett blew up and became basically bigger than college football in the media's eyes, many at Michigan saw the end coming for him. We knew we'd only have to face him once, because the bottom line at Ohio State had been shifted to winning, first and foremost. Clarett screwed up, made it worse, then made the mistake of mentioning Tressel. He was immediately cut off, academic support lost, and his immaturity and poor decision making worsened. He was doomed once he was kicked out of the OSU family.

Say what you want about Lloyd Carr, and I for one am annoyed at our record against OSU and in bowls of late, but I know he always had our best interests in mind as people. I can't say that for all programs.

So I take it you don't have this poster hanging on your wall.

 

[Michigan Dave]

So I take it you don't have this poster hanging on your wall.

Sure I do. It's on my dartboard.

Actually, as much as our neighbors to the south would like to credit the sweatervested one, truth is, our daddy is none other than this fella:

I'm not gonna lie, he absolutely owned us. But he's gone now, and we're going to pound them something awful this November. Time for things to return to normal.

 

[DW Toys]

The blemish on Woods was supposedly his lack of commitment and immaturity, the reported reasons for which Carr benched him as a senior. Prior to that, Woods had registered 7 sacks and 14 TFLs as a junior, leading Michigan in both categories. He was on the Nagurski and Butkus awards watch entering his senior campaign. Normally, but not always, talented players improve production between junior and senior seasons. Hypothetically, if Pierre had merely equalled his junior production his lost senior year, IMO he would have been a 2nd rd pick at a minimum considering his upper tier athleticism and rare size. But his benching led teams to justifiably consider him a problem child. Since then, Pierre has scrapped and clawed his way onto a roster spot as an UDFA, been a good soldier on special teams, and finished the year injury free at a high quality of ST play. He has removed the blemish of his senior season by demonstrating renewed commitment. With his team attitude and commitment to the game now proven commodities, and considering his junior year production + his rare size and athleticism+ performance as a college LBer, IMO Pierre has a higher probability to impact at 3-4 OLB than several of the most talked about prospects in this draft, including J. Moss, L. Woodley, and V. Abiamiri. In this draft, IMO the only prospects who have a higher probability to become quality starters at 3-4 OLB than Pierre are G. Adams and A. Spencer.

Couisn,
Very good work. Thoughtful. Lets hope you are right. I don't think BB drafted him cause he has a french name.
DW Toys

 

[captain stone]

Funny, on ESPN some of us (myself included) liked Woods, Roach, and Mays, then NE goes out and signs all three. To bad Roach didn't make it. I don't think Roach ever made it with another team, either.

.

Did you like Woods, Roach and Mays better than Spencer Havner, Mike Kudla, Kai Parham, Oliver Hoyte and William Kershaw? Woods and Roach I can understand, but Mays?

 

[sebman2112]

Did you like Woods, Roach and Mays better than Spencer Havner, Mike Kudla, Kai Parham, Oliver Hoyte and William Kershaw? Woods and Roach I can understand, but Mays?

I got to see Mays play a lot, and I thought he could be a good LB. I thought he'd do better than most, so when they brought him in I was hoping he'd make the roster. I still think he could develop into a decent LB. Don't get me wrong I liked some of those other guys (Havner, Parham, Hoyte), but I just had a feeling Mays could be a better LB than a lot of people think.

 

[captain stone]

I got to see Mays play a lot, and I thought he could be a good LB. I thought he'd do better than most, so when they brought him in I was hoping he'd make the roster. I still think he could develop into a decent LB. Don't get me wrong I liked some of those other guys (Havner, Parham, Hoyte), but I just had a feeling Mays could be a better LB than a lot of people think.

All I've seen Mays do so far is commit dumb penalties.

Mays, Alexander and Izzo need to be replaced, by ILBs with talent.

 

[RayClay]

All I've seen Mays do so far is commit dumb penalties.

Mays, Alexander and Izzo need to be replaced, by ILBs with talent.

I like Wood, but I'd like competition better.

TBC succeeded by beating nobody and that failure showed up at crunch time.

We don't need anymore, "he must be able to do the job because he's got the job, thinking", IMO, (Hello Marquise).

I think Woods might be a sleeper, but i want to see young LBs earn their spot for change.

 

[PonyExpress]

As a follow up re: Pierre's maturation, here are some interesting notes from his nfl.com journal: http://www.nflplayers.com/players/player.aspx?ID=39024&section=journal

As an aside, Lamarr Woodley, according to profootball weekly, will be tried out at ILB for the Steelers. I wish him the best, but doubt someone perceived as an elite edge rusher would be tried out at ILB for a 3-4 team, even one that runs a zone blitz scheme. BTW, assuming he keeps his weight below 275 in time Woodley may develop into an impact Trotter style bone crusher at ILB. Still, for the sake of his future IMO a 4-3 team would have been better, instead of being thrust like a square peg into a rd hole, forced to make a risky position change a la Kiwanuka with the NYG.

 

[BelichickFan]

I wish Woods had been at the combine in '06 so his times could be compared apples to apples as pro days tend to vary from surface to surface.

Woods pro day numbers were phenomenal. They blew away all the LB (Beason, Timmons, etc) combine numbers from this year. Woods' 20 yeard shuttle was 4.19, compared to Kemerion Wimbley's pro day of 4.22. Woods' pro day beat all the LB I looked up from the '06 combine although, again, it's not an apples to apples comparison. Bradley had a slightly better Shuttle but Woods' 3 cone blew him away.

The bottom line is that Woods' pro day numbers were sick. Hopefully he can turn the numbers into plays.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

The bottom line is that Woods' pro day numbers were sick. Hopefully he can turn the numbers into plays.

He did...

In 8 games played, he tallyed 2 Total Tackles and 11 Special Teams' Tackles. He made one of the three blocks that sprang Hobbs for his KR TD. His number showed up in the center of the screen in the kicking game blocking or shutting down return lanes more often than not.

Those 11 STs' tackles rank 4th on the team behind Andrews' 15 (15 games played), Hawkins' 15 (14 games played), and Izzo's 14 (16 games played), he finished one ahead of TBC (16 games played) and Alexander (14 games played). It would seem he does alright in the open field. Let's hope he stays ahead of TBC's learning curve and can step it up for the Team this season.